mlehman Motley Looks to have plenty of elbow room now? As a matter of fact, looking at the aisle width from the view of elbow room might help solve some problems. You can get away with slightly narrower aisles -- to the layout edge anyway -- if the deck height is relatively high. Somewhere between about mid-bicep and should height, but ABOVE elbow height. Shoulders are wide when stationary, but it's elbow swing that defines the width of the paths we move in. Don't know if that's work for you, but makes it easier to get under things for wiring, etc, as well as maximizing storage below. You may even be able to build a workbench under there. There are drawbacks and you do need a high ceiling to take advantage, especially if you want decent height mountains. Reach in depth is affected, etc. If you're tall, where it ends up being will be hard on shorter visitors. Just thought it worth mentioning, you'd have to decide if it's a useful idea or not.
Motley Looks to have plenty of elbow room now?
As a matter of fact, looking at the aisle width from the view of elbow room might help solve some problems. You can get away with slightly narrower aisles -- to the layout edge anyway -- if the deck height is relatively high. Somewhere between about mid-bicep and should height, but ABOVE elbow height. Shoulders are wide when stationary, but it's elbow swing that defines the width of the paths we move in.
Don't know if that's work for you, but makes it easier to get under things for wiring, etc, as well as maximizing storage below. You may even be able to build a workbench under there.
There are drawbacks and you do need a high ceiling to take advantage, especially if you want decent height mountains. Reach in depth is affected, etc. If you're tall, where it ends up being will be hard on shorter visitors. Just thought it worth mentioning, you'd have to decide if it's a useful idea or not.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Sir Madog Michael, I don´t know whether you will have ample elbow room available. You have been trying to beat the system a number of times in that plan - that´s not going to work! Take more care in drawing the plan - that´s essential to avoid a headache later on.
Michael,
I don´t know whether you will have ample elbow room available. You have been trying to beat the system a number of times in that plan - that´s not going to work! Take more care in drawing the plan - that´s essential to avoid a headache later on.
MotleyLooks to have plenty of elbow room now?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
If the loop is to be a mountain, that means you won't be able to see the track along the wall on the backside of the mountain, right? Why not use the mountain as a viewblock and place the staging tracks back there where they parked trains won't be seen.
And as others have said, make sure your measurements and switch frogs are to scale otherwise the back and forth can be futile.
As I see it, you drew the entry door only 18 inches wide. Its probably more like 30 inches....plus another 3 or 4 inches away from the left wall to house the framing. IOW, its right edge will be right at the third verticle line from the left, and its swing will extend to almost the third horizontal line from the bottom.
- Douglas
Motley Ya I was getting worried about the isle spaces. 2 ft just isn't enough. I just don't have room for the Ethanol Plant. I really wanted it too. I have all the buidings purchased already. Well that sucks. But I enlarged the mountain loop benchwork to 6 ft now. So inside curve is 33" radius, and the outside is 35". Anyways, I moved the Island over to the right side now, and only has the two staging tracks. Looks to have plenty of elbow room now?
Ya I was getting worried about the isle spaces. 2 ft just isn't enough.
I just don't have room for the Ethanol Plant. I really wanted it too. I have all the buidings purchased already.
Well that sucks. But I enlarged the mountain loop benchwork to 6 ft now. So inside curve is 33" radius, and the outside is 35".
Anyways, I moved the Island over to the right side now, and only has the two staging tracks.
Looks to have plenty of elbow room now?
I will tell you one thing, your walking spaces look too small, you need 30" min or you will not be happy long term. How do I know this, I was a space planner once in the 1-1 world, more is better but that is the min, skinny or not.
Michael - check those curves, some appear to be quite tight! Also check the distance of the track to the layout edge, a couple of inches more would certainly improve the looks of the layout!
Excellent! More room is ALWAYS better than less. Looks like an useful revision. Have to think about it more to offer any useful commentary at this hour...
Wheeeweeee! Got everything moved yesterday (Friday). The move went quit smooth.
Good news. When I first viewed the house, I didn’t have a tape measure when I was here first looking at the house. So I walked it of the distance. Just went digging for my tape measure (and camera). Holy smokes!
Its 15.5 ft x 12.0 ft. That’s a nice surprise. I’ll have plenty of room. The door in the corner opens inside, so that’s where the duckunder will be.
And I relocated Depot Station!
Thanks Doughless, I appreciate all the help with this. But I think I like the peninsula. Being able to have the staging tracks there, as well as the ethanol plant, which takes up a lot of room.
But I like Steve's idea with the double-mainline. I extend the track down the loop, to the left side there. But it requires a crossover. Because of the loop track.
Is it ok to have a level crossing on that loop track? How will it perform? Will I have any issues?
Michael:
I doodled an alternate plan by tracing a lot of what you have already. It primarily takes advantage of having an access hatch in the loop, so I eliminated the peninsula and put the ethanol plant in front of the loop. Also, if the closet is beg enough, I put the staging tracks back there behind a backdrop, accessible from the closet. Also, there is now a wye incorporated into the loop for turning trains (albeit backing up) and the entire layout is double main line. Other scenes were relocated to accommodate.
Pick what you like from it or nothing at all..
It uses some Walthers curved turnouts..#8s in the lower left. They have a 36 outside and 32 inch inside radius. The south turnout into the flood loader in a #7.5, a 32 outside and 28 inside. Only locos and coal hoppers will be negotiating the inside part of the turnout, so a 28 inch radius s/b fine. Things might be a bit tight, so if you're interested, you might have to draw it precisely to scale. And now that I look closer, I have a crossover in the lower wye, so you can eliminate one of the crossovers on the east side.
It uses some Walthers curved turnouts..#8s in the lower left. They have a 36 outside and 32 inch inside radius. The south turnout into the flood loader in a #7.5, a 32 outside and 28 inside. Only locos and coal hoppers will be negotiating the inside part of the turnout, so a 28 inch radius s/b fine.
Things might be a bit tight, so if you're interested, you might have to draw it precisely to scale.
And now that I look closer, I have a crossover in the lower wye, so you can eliminate one of the crossovers on the east side.
Motley mlehman If running clockwise, stop and then back through the loop from the turnout connecting it and the main at the top of the left side. Go through the double cross-over and suddenly your're facing counter clockwise. Now that I think of it, where you had it as a single-cross-over would've worked that way, too, so I over-thunk that one a bit The double-X-over gives you more route options, though. AHA!!!!!!! Nice, I have no idea why I kept looking at it running tains in my head, and couldn't figure it out.
mlehman If running clockwise, stop and then back through the loop from the turnout connecting it and the main at the top of the left side. Go through the double cross-over and suddenly your're facing counter clockwise. Now that I think of it, where you had it as a single-cross-over would've worked that way, too, so I over-thunk that one a bit The double-X-over gives you more route options, though.
If running clockwise, stop and then back through the loop from the turnout connecting it and the main at the top of the left side. Go through the double cross-over and suddenly your're facing counter clockwise.
Now that I think of it, where you had it as a single-cross-over would've worked that way, too, so I over-thunk that one a bit
The double-X-over gives you more route options, though.
AHA!!!!!!! Nice, I have no idea why I kept looking at it running tains in my head, and couldn't figure it out.
Rich
Alton Junction
Motley Well I just tried to use the peninsula on the right side. And it won't work. Then there's no room for the river/bridge scene. (which is my favorite scene by the way).
Well I just tried to use the peninsula on the right side. And it won't work. Then there's no room for the river/bridge scene. (which is my favorite scene by the way).
Try a mirror-reverse of the plan, with the loop and peninsula on the right. Then, you might be able to trim a few inches from the benchwork to give you more space to enter the room.
You almost have a double main line. Keep going.
Steve
Ok made a few minor adjustments. And added the double-crossover on top trackwork.
Lookin good now?
MotleyAs far as the DCC auto-reverser, will I have any issues trying to issolate the track? Where do you reccomend I put the gaps? Before, or after the crossover?
I would make the auto-reversing section the track between the top turnout on the left wall that enters the loop section to the right until the turnout to the shop/TT lead. If that's not longer than your longest train, then extend it towards the double crossover as needed (in one or both directions along the loop) and move the gaps to suit.
Choops Motley Ya I had to comprimise. They are closer to 32" now. When I draw your reverse loop in cad 32"r the bench work ends about 6.5 feet from the left wall. Steve
Motley Ya I had to comprimise. They are closer to 32" now.
When I draw your reverse loop in cad 32"r the bench work ends about 6.5 feet from the left wall.
Motley Another issue now I'm having. Is the reverse loop. Right now its a one way reverse loop. There's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now?
Another issue now I'm having. Is the reverse loop. Right now its a one way reverse loop. There's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now?
I noticed that right away, but as Mike noted, you could back the trains into the reverse loop to get them facing the other way.
Or, another thing you could do is use the same space as the first reverse loop is add a second reverse loop by ramping down below or up above, to a second reverse level, where the other reverse loop could enter from the opposite direction in the same lobe of benwork. Technically that way you could run trains from one reverse loop to another and back.
I had a layout like that, my first garage layout although in the track scematic I had enough distance to fit a full yard some single track, and a passing siding inbetween the reverse loops. I actually sold that layout sans scenery to a guy up near Kokomo or Peru Indiana - I assume he finished it - it had modular benchwork so it could be disassembled, put in a U-haul truck and bolted back together - of course the track would need to be fitted back in across the joints but thats small potatos compared to building a layout from scratch!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I'm using Peco track/switches. With their Peco switch machines. I see the Peco doesn't have the double-crossover. Only Walthers does?
Is there a way to "retro-fit" the Peco switch machine onto the Walthers switches? The attach underneath, and the pins are inserted into holes into the sliding part of the tie.
MotleyYa I had to comprimise. They are closer to 32" now.
Double deck the layout, using the nolix concept to gain the height around the room. It doesn;t even have to be a full double deck, but really just enough to stack 2 loops on top of each other. You wouldn;t have a continuous run in oen direction around the room, but running loop to loop you would still have the ability to have a train continuously circulate with no intervention (if using autoreversers for the loops). Definitely keep teh loops stacked, you don;t have room for two such large loops each taking up their own chunk of space, so make one big space eater serve a double purpose. With a true double deck design you would circle the room twice. Put the deep bridge scene diagonal for one level outside fo the loop, one of the levels crosses the bridge, the other level is hidden behind the falls and river. Staging at each end woudl extend off the loops, above the top level on one side and below the lower level at the other end.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Choops Your radii On your drawing do not look like 34" minimums.
Your radii On your drawing do not look like 34" minimums.
Heck, maybe I'll just go with the double-crossover anyways. Like you said, easier to navigate the routes.
As far as the DCC auto-reverser, will I have any issues trying to issolate the track? Where do you reccomend I put the gaps? Before, or after the crossover?
MotleyI'm still confused about how to get trains to run counter-clockwise?
Is the reverse loop hidden or visible track?
Remember that there are really two standards for minimum radius for any length equipment. There is the minimum where the models don't look like toys on the track, and the minimum where the models will run without problems. Most stuff will run on a much tighter curve than looks good. If the loop is hidden, you can use the difference to your advantage.
You could put a 24-26" radius hidden reverse loop under your ethanol plant on the peninsula and attach it to the around the room oval with a wye. This would also help your access issue in the back left corner and may also give you the opportunity to attach to the right side with the river scene on the left.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
MotleyAnother issue now I'm having. Is the reverse loop. Right now its a one way reverse loop. There's no way now to get the trains to run counter-clockwise. What do I do now?
Don't need reverse loops. Unhook engine and rehook to other end of train.
Or instead of two reverse loops make the peninsula the third leg of a wye. Pull into the peninsule from any direction back out in any direction.
I'll admit up front I have little experience designing. Seems to me, though, that if you want to turn whole trains around to run counterclockwise you need another loop somewhere, and space-wise it would make the most sense to put it directly above or beneath the existing one. Maybe you could keep the leads to staging and the ethanol plant attached where they are (to the existing loop), drop the grade slightly across the layout so you have enough clearance, and extend the main past the sand frac facility into a second reverse loop, directly underneath the first.
That said, I find Rich's separate two-level (two-layout?) idea quite attractive.
P