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Moving - New Layout build

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Posted by mlehman on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 12:30 PM

Motley
I decided to go with 48" track height. Chest level for me. Still need to be able to reach in 30".

That's what having a nice, generously sized step box is good for.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 12:18 PM

Picking up the lumber today at Home Depot. Gonna finally start building the benchwork tonght!!

I decided to go with 48" track height. Chest level for me. Still need to be able to reach in 30".

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 12, 2015 12:50 PM

Ya my old layout height was too low, at around 40" (waist high), and I felt myself bending over to get the track level view of trains running. But I had some long reaches in places, that required me to climb onto the layout to do trackwork.

This layout will be 48" track hieght. Most of the edges will be around 30" reach to the outside wall. So track access should be much better than the old layout.

 

Michael


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Posted by mobilman44 on Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:25 AM

Great!  

   Mine fills the room with a 4 ft duckunder.  I knowingly have some wide spans (corners mainly) where I have to get on the layout to get to the outside edges.  I sacrificed ease of access for more layout area.   My point is, I learned right away to work - be it roadbed, track, wiring, backdrop, scenery - from the outside to the inside...............

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:42 AM

Yes I'm ready to get started. I'm going to Home Depot next Monday to pick up a bunch of lumber. Then get started building the benchwork.

My plan is to start in the upper right corner, the mountain loop. Build that benchwork first. Get the foam installed. Then lay the track for the loop. So I can at least run some trains!

Then I'll start with the left wall benchwork, and work my way around. Hope to have the benchwork and foam completed before Christmas.

 

Michael


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Posted by mobilman44 on Thursday, November 12, 2015 5:40 AM

Motley,

   What's the status on the layout?   Have you settled on a design?   I'm looking forward to your progress, especially as my layout room is pretty much the same size and configuration.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, November 7, 2015 5:46 PM

I like the mountain with the reverse loop in it. I'm sticking with the way it is now.

But thanks for all the suggestions.

Michael


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Posted by Doughless on Saturday, November 7, 2015 2:34 PM

richhotrain

ahh, you're playing with fire now, Doughless.  Laugh

Michael wants that reverse loop.   Super Angry

Rich

 

 

He's not getting married to it...not that that's all that permanent anymore.  He likes to rebuild.  He can always add it later.  This helps him get started and running trains without getting bogged down on the wiring. Big Smile

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, November 7, 2015 2:23 PM

The new plan is fine except, why the donut hole, instead just run it around the outside elininating the access hole and that loop, then (it looks like you have a 7' wide walkway now, you can put in a Y connected peninsula  up to 2' wide and still have a 30" walkway.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 7, 2015 1:54 PM

ahh, you're playing with fire now, Doughless.  Laugh

Michael wants that reverse loop.   Super Angry

Rich

 

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Posted by Doughless on Saturday, November 7, 2015 1:50 PM

Almost as many scenes, but larger scenes with less complicated trackwork.  Starting two trains in the yard going opposite directions and meeting along the layout will give you almost the same visual appeal as what the reversing loop would do.  There's probably not enough space to have everything, so I prioritized how I thought Michael would:

 

And the second with your sand frac facility added in the NW and a three track bridge scene.

 

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Posted by Motley on Friday, November 6, 2015 10:57 PM

Ya I saved the river bridge section from the old layout. Although it won't fit here now. I can always add it later.

I do have that huge area for the mountain to be all scenery. And I have room for the trestle bridge running there along the inside mainline.

My plan is to have the entire mountain covered in snow. So the trestle bridge will go over the frozen creek.

 

Michael


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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, November 6, 2015 7:32 PM

Motley
But now there's no room for my favorite scene, the multiple bridge and river scene.

Hmm Whoa there!!! That’s a pretty big call, and while I might be wrong I think you’re going to regret it.

Having followed your last build I noted that you’re not afraid to redo work that you’re not satisfied with and while this present thread may be seeking advice to avoid the redo’s, I now wondering if it’s time to take you own advice and ..... “I'll figure it out, just like I did with my old layout. Nothing is permanent. If an isle is too small, then I'll make it bigger. It’s really not that big of deal. Just like the radius on the curves. I found out that no matter how much track planning someone does. Once you start laying track things change a bit. But you can always work it out.
....but is a staging area under the layout something you would consider?  (ramp up to the level of the main layout)
I tend to favour Jims suggestion and though its mentioned as your “Phase 2” I would allow room for where that future track joins into the “layout” now.
Have Fun,
Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by Motley on Friday, November 6, 2015 5:42 PM

Ok been working on changing the plan for the yard scene. But now there's no room for my favorite scene, the multiple bridge and river scene. DAMIT!

But got some longer tracks there for staging/yard.

Michael


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Posted by Doughless on Friday, November 6, 2015 1:04 PM

richhotrain
 

While a few model railroaders may adhere to that strict definition of prototype operation, that definition seems a bit extreme in my opinion.

 

Building, staging, and running specific prototype trains, yes.

Running them according to a timetable so they appear at the proper scenes at the proper time, no.

If you are going to operate at that level of detail, then you also need to replicate the exact track work found on the prototype.  I don't think that prototype operation requires that degree of exactness.

Knowing what I do about Michael's layout and operational practices, he models prototype operation.

Rich

 

I understand Rich.  I don't adhere to that level of exactness either, but that's what I was referring to when I used the term, albeit lazily.

It was obvious that he is not planning that level of exactness, at least to me.

Therefore, he can combine staging tracks with his yard scene, instead of using precious space to keep them separated.  Parked/staged trains would enhance the yard scene instead of detract from it, IMO.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 6, 2015 6:19 AM

Doughless
 
 
Motley
 

What makes you think I'm not modeling a prototype operation? 

I meant the multiple train thing where you research and build several specific prototype trains, stage them, then run them according to a timetable so they appear at the proper scenes at the proper time.  

That's all I meant, strictly adhere to what a chosen prototype does in an operational sense.

While a few model railroaders may adhere to that strict definition of prototype operation, that definition seems a bit extreme in my opinion.

Building, staging, and running specific prototype trains, yes.

Running them according to a timetable so they appear at the proper scenes at the proper time, no.

If you are going to operate at that level of detail, then you also need to replicate the exact track work found on the prototype.  I don't think that prototype operation requires that degree of exactness.

Knowing what I do about Michael's layout and operational practices, he models prototype operation.

Rich

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:38 PM

Motley
 

What makes you think I'm not modeling a prototype operation?

 

I meant the multiple train thing where you research and build several specific prototype trains, stage them, then run them according to a timetable so they appear at the proper scenes at the proper time.  You didn't seem to care where exactly the scenes were relative to one another and you don't really have enough staging tracks to do that.

You can certainly model different kind of prototype ops in a different way with one or two trains and less staging.  That's what I do.

That's all I meant, strictly adhere to what a chosen prototype does in an operational sense.

In the context of my post that commented on the new staging area, if you saw the staged trains parked in the yard, then train XYZ would not be where it was suppose to be compared to where it should at be that time of day on the prototype...if that makes sense. 

 

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:31 PM

I just wanted to thank all you guys for all the awesome ideas and help. I'm truly grateful.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:14 PM

Doughless

 

 
Choops

 

Steve,

That's the exact idea I had.  Put double ended staging behind a backdrop accessible in the door carve out.  It allows staging to not clutter a scene, and still have good access.

Or, since Michael is not modeling a prototype operation, he wouldn't even need the backdrop. The staging tracks could simply be part of the yard scene, whereby his staged trains would simply look like trains parked in the yard as another crept by.  Maybe a nice place for the Cheyenne Depot.

I'm still not sure that the door opening is wide enough.  I would think the tip of the swing needs to be 36 inches from the left side wall.  Maybe it is.

 

I just measured the door and its 30".

What makes you think I'm not modeling a prototype operation?

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:12 PM

Ya I like that idea with the door opening. More staging/yard tracks is better.

I'll update the plan with this.

I want the double-crossover. More route options, takes up less space, etc.

Michael


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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 5, 2015 4:33 PM

Rich,

Sometimes I wonder where your mind is....Wink

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 5, 2015 1:36 PM

Doughless

Choops diagram is simply a dogbone trackplan with the turnback blobs combined into one..if that makes sense. 

Blobs?  Hey, no profanity permitted on the forums.  Laugh

Rich

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Posted by mobilman44 on Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:26 PM

As I understand, there is also a closet door too!

An option (not necessarily a viable one) is to remove the door.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:26 PM

Choops

Steve,

That's the exact idea I had.  Put double ended staging behind a backdrop accessible in the door carve out.  It allows staging to not clutter a scene, and still have good access.

Or, since Michael is not modeling a prototype operation, he wouldn't even need the backdrop. The staging tracks could simply be part of the yard scene, whereby his staged trains would simply look like trains parked in the yard as another crept by.  Maybe a nice place for the Cheyenne Depot.

I'm still not sure that the door opening is wide enough.  I would think the tip of the swing needs to be 36 inches from the left side wall.  Maybe it is.

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Posted by Choops on Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:49 AM
Modeling Union Pacific between Cheyenne and Laramie in 1957 (roughly)
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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:42 AM

mobilman44

Hi,

My layout room is almost the exact same size as Motley's.  From what I can tell, a bit more room (6 inches?) will be needed for the door swing area. 

If I'm looking at Michael's diagram correctly, his stated room "height" is twelve feet.  If the squares are one foot, the grey benchwork takes up the entire 12 feet.  He's only showing an 18 inch door opening and less than 24 inch swing into the room.

In modern houses, most entry doors are 30 inches wide, with an extra 3 for the door framing and jam.

Michael needs to carve out a 36 inch quarter circle to accommodate an inside swinging door into the extreme SW corner of the plan.

So far, nobody has posted a plan that does this, including myself.

Unless, Michael plans on building a huge curved liftout section to accommodate a curving corner of the trackplan....not adviseable.

- Douglas

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:20 AM

Choops diagram is simply a dogbone trackplan with the turnback blobs combined into one..if that makes sense.  The trains use the loop to turn back in the opposite direction on a different track from the track they entered the loop...not the same track.

I still don't see the point of adding crossovers at all, sincle or double, but I'm more of a prototypical operator and don't care for trains to reverse back into the same scene they just left, so I might not see the benefit of crossovers that that others do.

I always thought that reverse polarity loops were for turning the train back onto the exact same track, or didn't want two mainline tracks at all. 

Oh well..... 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 5, 2015 7:21 AM

Choops

Ditch the double cross over (too much trouble) and use two single cross overs.

Steve

 

That is my thought as well, but it still will cause a reverse polarity issue.

Rich

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Posted by Choops on Thursday, November 5, 2015 7:01 AM

Ditch the double cross over (too much trouble) and use two single cross overs.

Steve

Modeling Union Pacific between Cheyenne and Laramie in 1957 (roughly)
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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 5, 2015 4:40 AM

mlehman

Even without the double-crossover, there are still reversing sections as drawn. So long as the train has the option to either follow around the circle/loop or chose to turn back there, a reversing section will be needed to turn back. Or is the plan to be very disciplined and never take the reversing option on the circle/loop?

 

I haven't traced out Motley's latest track diagram, but you are probably right, Mike, about the reversing sections on that plan even without the double crossover.  

In the track plan shown in the link provided by Choops, there is no issue with reverse polarity.  Yet, trains can turn around in each direction.

Rich

Alton Junction

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