Even without the double-crossover, there are still reversing sections as drawn. So long as the train has the option to either follow around the circle/loop or chose to turn back there, a reversing section will be needed to turn back. Or is the plan to be very disciplined and never take the reversing option on the circle/loop?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
richhotrain The key to adding that double crossover to the plan is to keep it simple by wiring the double crossover in phase with the rest of the track work outside the loop. That way, the double crossover and the track work outside the loop become the non-reversing section, and the loop becomes the reversing section. Just make the reversing section longer than your longest train. Were it not for the double crossover, there would be no reverse polarity issues, and the outer and inner mainlines emanating from the loop would be wired such that the polarity would be "reversed" on each of the two mainlines. It is when you add crossover tracks that reverse polarity issues become a problem. Rich
The key to adding that double crossover to the plan is to keep it simple by wiring the double crossover in phase with the rest of the track work outside the loop. That way, the double crossover and the track work outside the loop become the non-reversing section, and the loop becomes the reversing section. Just make the reversing section longer than your longest train.
Were it not for the double crossover, there would be no reverse polarity issues, and the outer and inner mainlines emanating from the loop would be wired such that the polarity would be "reversed" on each of the two mainlines. It is when you add crossover tracks that reverse polarity issues become a problem.
Rich
- Douglas
mobilman44 Hi, My layout room is almost the exact same size as Motley's. From what I can tell, a bit more room (6 inches?) will be needed for the door swing area. Also, is there a closet in the room? If so, will you have access to it? One more thing....... when I first used my room for a layout, I had two additional ceiling light fixtures put in. That made a huge difference!
Hi,
My layout room is almost the exact same size as Motley's. From what I can tell, a bit more room (6 inches?) will be needed for the door swing area.
Also, is there a closet in the room? If so, will you have access to it?
One more thing....... when I first used my room for a layout, I had two additional ceiling light fixtures put in. That made a huge difference!
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Alton Junction
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
How does this look? Remember I run long trains, so need a lot of length in between them.
Without the double crossover, there is no reverse polarity problem. But, with the double crossover there is a reverse polarity problem, so the loop needs to be isolated and an auto-reverser added.
Aha.... I'm liking the double-cossover and where it is righ now.
So now what? Where do place the gaps? And how do I wire it up to my autoreverser?
Motley Rich, are you sure there are no reverse loops, and no reverser needed?
Rich, are you sure there are no reverse loops, and no reverser needed?
But, as you drew it, there is a reversing section where you added the double crossover.
Chooops is the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yaaaaaa clapping, cheering, the crowd roars!!
OK think we got it now?
Choops Here is an option to have two reverse loops and save track. https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12074872_10206662163907085_3057040073872368198_n.jpg?oh=a4beb2e4ba9206d65ce1b0ce9ed66070&oe=56C97038 Steve
Here is an option to have two reverse loops and save track.
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12074872_10206662163907085_3057040073872368198_n.jpg?oh=a4beb2e4ba9206d65ce1b0ce9ed66070&oe=56C97038
Steve
riogrande5761 Not to open a can of worms but is a staging area under the layout something you would consider? (ramp up to the level of the main layout)
Not to open a can of worms but is a staging area under the layout something you would consider? (ramp up to the level of the main layout)
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Well crap, there just isn't enough room for the peninsula. So its gone now.
I expanded the loop now to 34" radius on the inside curve. Expanded that benchwork too.
And moved the Oil Refinery to the upper right side.
Plenty of space now in the middle.
richhotrain mobilman44 Hi again ! Obviously most all of us that value continuous running would love to have two reverse loops. The OP's plan "only" has one, which would necessitate a backwards run thru the loop to reverse direction a second time. Of course this is not an ideal situation, but having one reverse loop is a whole lot better than having none. Yup, I speak from experience.......... If time is taken to draw out the space by hand on something like quadrille paper, there is plenty of room for two reversing sections to permit trains to turn around in both directions without having to back up. And, the curves can be done with a radius of 36" or more. Rich
mobilman44 Hi again ! Obviously most all of us that value continuous running would love to have two reverse loops. The OP's plan "only" has one, which would necessitate a backwards run thru the loop to reverse direction a second time. Of course this is not an ideal situation, but having one reverse loop is a whole lot better than having none. Yup, I speak from experience..........
Hi again !
Obviously most all of us that value continuous running would love to have two reverse loops. The OP's plan "only" has one, which would necessitate a backwards run thru the loop to reverse direction a second time. Of course this is not an ideal situation, but having one reverse loop is a whole lot better than having none. Yup, I speak from experience..........
If time is taken to draw out the space by hand on something like quadrille paper, there is plenty of room for two reversing sections to permit trains to turn around in both directions without having to back up. And, the curves can be done with a radius of 36" or more.
Yes, he does. The question is, would he want them in the current configuration, having them in opposite corners of the room. It might make for a situation where the trains spend just as much time in the reverse loops as they do in the main part of the layout.
Edited:....Given the space constraints brought about by the door swing to the inside, I'm not sure two loops would be doable. I would like to see a plan posted that shows room for the door swing, or a comment that the door will be removed or have its swing changed to the outside before I can comment much further.
I've noticed the radius labeled on the drawings listed as 33 and 35 inches. I would strongly recommend a difference of MORE than 2.0 inches, even at those relatively generous curve radii, there is still some likihood of long cars interfering with each other on 2-inch centers. I recommend 2.0 inch centers ONLY on straight sections.
I advise minimum centers on those curves at least 2 1/4 (2.25) inches. So if your inner radius is 33 inches, the outer should be 35.25 or 35 1/4.
On my staging yard, I made sure my centers were in excess of 2.25 inches and even then it looked like longer cars were coming close to those on adjacent tracks. You might want to "mock up" some curves to test, thats the way to be sure you are safe.
Now if you assumed track centers of at least 2.25 inches, maybe I missed it but better safe than sorry!
Sir Madog Motley I think I'm not paying enough attention to detail here. Michael - it may be my bad command of the English language, but that´s exactly what I wanted to point out. Although 11´ by 13´ is quite a lot of room (at least from my humble point of view), a few inches off here and there can make a big difference. This is what is meant by "sanity check" - does it really fit into the space you have allocated for your layout? Have all the curves the minimum radius you need to have? Are all the switches the correct size? On double track mains, does the track have the right spacing? Are all gradients below "X" % (put in the value you don´t want to exceed)? Track planning software will help you to answer these questions, but only if employed correctly.
Motley I think I'm not paying enough attention to detail here.
Michael - it may be my bad command of the English language, but that´s exactly what I wanted to point out. Although 11´ by 13´ is quite a lot of room (at least from my humble point of view), a few inches off here and there can make a big difference. This is what is meant by "sanity check" - does it really fit into the space you have allocated for your layout? Have all the curves the minimum radius you need to have? Are all the switches the correct size? On double track mains, does the track have the right spacing? Are all gradients below "X" % (put in the value you don´t want to exceed)?
Track planning software will help you to answer these questions, but only if employed correctly.
Choops Motley It should be 5.5 ft. 32" x 2 = 64" = 5.333 ft. Little more to it than doubling the radius. Steve
Motley It should be 5.5 ft. 32" x 2 = 64" = 5.333 ft.
Little more to it than doubling the radius.
Thanks Steve, that helps. I think I'm not paying enough attention to detail here.
Sorry, I've just been very stressed out with real life right now. Don't mean to sound not greatful for all the help everyone here gives me. Most importantly my friend Rich.
I value every one's opinions. (well maybe except ulrich). LOL
Motley mobilman44 Hi, may I butt in............. My current and previous layout was built in an 11x15 room. It is around the wall, with space only for the door to open. With the door open you are presented with a 4 ft wide duckunder so as to get into the center operating area. Both layout designs were the result of literally years of scale drawings. And both layouts presented themselves with tradeoffs. In example, for around the room running and a large engine terminal, etc., etc., I endure the duckunder and the fact that the layout is too deep to reach some areas without getting topside. My point is, the OP seems to be well aware of these trade-offs, and he (like me) knows full well that he will live with the results (or eventually tear them out). For what its worth, I like the design, and it looks to me like it will work out just fine. ENJOY!
mobilman44 Hi, may I butt in............. My current and previous layout was built in an 11x15 room. It is around the wall, with space only for the door to open. With the door open you are presented with a 4 ft wide duckunder so as to get into the center operating area. Both layout designs were the result of literally years of scale drawings. And both layouts presented themselves with tradeoffs. In example, for around the room running and a large engine terminal, etc., etc., I endure the duckunder and the fact that the layout is too deep to reach some areas without getting topside. My point is, the OP seems to be well aware of these trade-offs, and he (like me) knows full well that he will live with the results (or eventually tear them out). For what its worth, I like the design, and it looks to me like it will work out just fine. ENJOY!
Hi, may I butt in.............
My current and previous layout was built in an 11x15 room. It is around the wall, with space only for the door to open. With the door open you are presented with a 4 ft wide duckunder so as to get into the center operating area.
Both layout designs were the result of literally years of scale drawings. And both layouts presented themselves with tradeoffs. In example, for around the room running and a large engine terminal, etc., etc., I endure the duckunder and the fact that the layout is too deep to reach some areas without getting topside.
My point is, the OP seems to be well aware of these trade-offs, and he (like me) knows full well that he will live with the results (or eventually tear them out).
For what its worth, I like the design, and it looks to me like it will work out just fine.
ENJOY!
MotleyIt should be 5.5 ft. 32" x 2 = 64" = 5.333 ft.
I'm not even using CAD for this. I'm using the free version of Anyrail. I enabled the 12" grid lines. Thats all I have for size reference.
It doesn't have a "sanity check" button. Must have left it out.
Michael,
I did not mean to be patronizing, but what´s the use in drawing a plan with a CAD tool if you don´t employ the main feature of it - the "sanity check" telling you whether everything will finally fit the way you want to have it?