I understand the house hunting thing and the issue you face. My wife and I house hunted in our area from August through early November of 2013 year and it was a long and difficult process - we looked at countless houses in three major areas where the prices were more affordable. A space for trains was one of our "must haves", and in this area for our budget, options were very limited because most of the places we could afford were small 3 bedroom town houses. In an area with a worse commute, there were stand alone houses but they had wierd layouts where the kitchen/dinining area was on a different floor than the living room and bedrooms.
My wife always asked me about train area each time we looked at a house - basements were the most obvious option but most of the time there was some reason we avoided those houses - loud dog next door, playground immediately behind the fence with noisy children. We looked at one stand alone house a long commute which needed about 20 grand put into it and btw, had a basement that was sectioned into bedrooms; the place was in bad shape and I would have had to tear out the walls. It was a non starter.
We finally found a ready to move in town house in a decent area with a finished basement that had a 10x18' room for trains - that was as good as I was going to get for trains the next 4 or 5 years and we liked the house (it was the one) so we took it and I'm having fun building now. Maybe you will need to keep looking - most will tell you when you've found the house that checks all the boxes, you will know it. Competition is high in this area so we felt lucky that we we able to put our offer in and have it accepted - there was at least one other offer and others looking. Keep looking and work with the wife - as one said, happy wife happy life! Enjoy the trains.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
...
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
A separate building has not been discussed. If the lot has the space, a prefab building could be the answer. I once visited a layout that was built in such a place. The downside was that there was no restroom, nor even running water in the building. At the very least, the building would have to have climate control. Installing plumbing or HVAC would increase the cost significantly. Another option along the same lines would be an addition to the house. That's another solution that would involve significant costs.
Instead of tearing out the bathroom, how about relocating it off to the side so it doesn't come between the bedrooms(which would now be one big room)?
Anyway, if you do decide to ditch her, at least child support won't be an issue.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Seeking marital advise on a model railroad forum seems a little weird to me. There are professionals who specialize in domestic relations. Some of them like trains.
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I have to ask the semi-obvious question: is this conflict due to model railroading, or due to house hunting?
There are a few things in life I hate more than house hunting....but not many. One is moving. But, looking for the ideal place inevitably leads to frustration, which leads to the kind of conflicts in this thread. For me, the frustration starts to set in about the third house we look at that simply does not fit one of the must-haves on the list. That is usually about the fourth or fifth house we look at!
When we found this house, it was perfect in a lot of important ways. My wife suggested we keep looking because the one way it is not perfect is a "clean" basement (in terms of lines, not cleanliness) for building a model railroad. I told her not to worry about that, I'd figure it out since I'd rather have a challenge coming up with a railroad plan than a challenge somewhere else in the house. We pulled the trigger, and eight years later my empire is in its third year of construction.
My wife does not understand my attraction to model trains. But, she does at least respect that it exists, and to some degree, she likes showing off some of the things I have done when people come over. I am lucky in that respect, as in a lot of others with her.
But I could easily see a house search de-evolving into "why do you need that big of a space for your trains." It is an inherently frustrating process unless you happen to hit a home run very early.
- Mark
heavydThanks for all replies everyone. I really appreciate the support. The house in question has the two bedrooms dissected by the bathroom. To get one big room I would have to tear out the bathroom. We did talk about that. This just sounded ridiculous to me and would only down grade the value of the house. What my wife said about my trains was a complete shock. We have been together for almost 18 years. She knows all about my trains and my desires. I have dragged her to many train shows, she knows full well what I am after. The house hunt has been long and frustrating and I think she finally fell in love with a house and I didn't like it and she took that frustration out with me. Trust me, I will not compromise to the extent that I won't be happy. She knows she over reacted. But thanks again, I will try to educate her more on specifically what I am after, and if that fails, new wife it is! LOL!
Buy the house with your wife and don't bring the subject of a RR into the picture or your going to catch flack. Once your into the house figure out with your wife what she will need of the house and do a bit extra on her part. she will come around to understanding what you enjoy, work from there, they all come around and will also understand you and her are in for the long haul and the family will eventually be out of your business. Think small with the first layout but at the same time think future expansions. My wife and I have been married 30 + years and she completely understands my enjoyment in the hobby and has even said she would take part in it if I were to cleanup a bit. This also goes with her not understanding what I meant when I use to say I'm going for a ride on my motorcycle by myself, 5 years ago I taught her to ride her own bike and she now goes on her own rides alone when I'm working and has a perfect understanding now of what I meant. This was a photo of my wife last year getting ready to board the cheechaman ferry, shes not ready to get as involved with my hobby as I am yet but she'll come around.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
Hi heavyd
Frst and formost the house needs to be in a good area second it needs a fantastic kitchen and bath room facilities etc these are the most expencive bits to fix if they need fixing.
Regardless of what the in laws say it is you and your wife that will have to live in the house.
So it MUST meet both yours and your wifes needs.
So you have the "train set" so an adiquate space must be avalable some cmpromise might be required your wifes personal interests are what ever and an adiquate space must be avalable for that.
A nice house without the above will end up with no one being happy.
Some one mentioned real estate value this really is a secondary issuie as there is no point having a house worth millions if it does not meet both your requirements
I sorted out my troublesome inlaws by telling them it was about time the pile of rusty junk in the shed went to the tip and the rubish got tidied up.
The pile of rust and rubish where a very very old car of some sort that was being restored there hobby once that was sorted, they where asked what was wrong with me having my hobby space a question they could not answer.
Buying a house is a big step a big life investment so it has to suit both of your expectations or be very quickly able to meet them.
Instead of train room think entertainment area or games room these are terms a real estate agent will understand and you might be then able to find something that keeps the domestic harmony.
Don't forget to get the engineers reports and pest checkes done they can save a lot of heart ache's
Don't worry it will all sort it's self out and both of you you will end up with the home you want you just have to work together to get it
regards John
heavyd,
Your wife sounds like someone worthy of being cherished dearly for a very long time. Any wife who can be sincere and admit error is rare, indeed. My bride is certain she is right all the time. This could be a deal breaker, but when she could see all of my flaws, faults and foibles (after cataract surgery) and still lets me come home at night-well that is special as well.
I have the large basement of your dreams, but only a modest portion of it is devoted to my railroad. We have agreeably negotiated more railroad space, but it comes at a cost- clearing clutter accumulated over the ages in the basement. Talk about being on the horns of a dilemna; to wit-precious time off from other distractions ought to be spent fussing with the railroad balanced against the defered gratifaction of having additional clear space to finally start to build a mythical southern division?
To quote the old song-"It don't come easy..."
Be of good cheer and enjoy,
Don H.
heavyd I am just looking for any advice or related stories from anyone that had simular problems and how you worked it out.
I got rid of that wife..
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Sorry, but I'm with the wife. I believe expecting her to live in a less than desirable house just to accomodate your hobby puts the lack of respect on your side, not hers. Only if you find two houses that she likes equally should how the railroad fits be considered. Otherwise, buy the house she likes then figure out how to fit the railroad in. Anyone who expects the lives of everyone in the house to revolve around their hobby should live alone.
Should I expect my wife to live in a smaller house with a lower mortgage payment so I can use the savings to support my cocaine habit?
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Have fun with your trains
A few random thoughts on this issue:
Forget trying to "win" an arguement. Better to show that the hobby is a "reasonable" thing to be involved with. Visiting some nice local layouts helps with demonstrating reasonableness - just keep the visits short.
More trouble some than finding space for a layout can be the time and money involved. Space is a "sunk cost". How you spend your time and money show what you value. If your wife thinks you value the hobby more than your marriage, you are in trouble! Perception is reality!
Marriage comes first. Hobbies come second. But it really isn't an "either/or". It should be a "both/and."
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Question to the OP what scale are you planning? If for example HO would N be better so that you could scale back your empire to ocuppy one bedroom and avoid modifying the basement?
If you can confine the size of your MRR maybe that would make it easier to negotiate with the powers that be?
Joe Staten Island West
carl425Sorry, but I'm with the wife. I believe expecting her to live in a less than desirable house just to accomodate your hobby puts the lack of respect on your side, not hers. Only if you find two houses that she likes equally should how the railroad fits be considered. Otherwise, buy the house she likes then figure out how to fit the railroad in. Anyone who expects the lives of everyone in the house to revolve around their hobby should live alone. Should I expect my wife to live in a smaller house with a lower mortgage payment so I can use the savings to support my cocaine habit?
I don't think any of the above examples is would be suggested by most of us. That said, if a mans passion is trains, and it is kept in balance with the wifes needs and desires, isn't there any reason both can be met by looking for a house which is inclusive of the major check list?
This is why it did take my wife and I alot of time, and a lot of running around until we found something that met our needs. Thankfully my wife was caring and loving enough to make sure we included trains on our check list. That doesn't mean I got an aircraft hanger, rather I have a very modest room. But I went without any space for trains for the previous 15 years so it was time to make this a priority now that we were going to buy a home.
It sounds like the OP can still do some looking and eventually he and his wife will find "THE house".
BTW, I don't have a bathroom in my basement but I sure wish I did! Only the 1st and 2nd floors. But 3 bathrooms wasn't on our must list - having a room for trains was.
I also hope it works out for you, my hobby is my escape from a world that is overwhelming for someone with Aspergers Syndrome. I can escape into my model world to let my mind process the days events and relax. When I go out to the local club layout on Saturday evenings, I am usualy very stressed out. But by the time we shut down around 11pm, I am relaxed and in a much better mood. All by just running the little logging operation at the far end of the huge layout. Growing up, my parents didnt support my model trains much past my 10th birthday. But with my mowing money from yards I was contracted to mow each summer, I could support my hobby quite well. To the point of buying brass geared engines by the time I was 16 and heavly into logging modeling. I am 41 now and have never given up the hobby and I never will. Its a necessary part of my daily routine, even if its just for a few min each day. Mikie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Explain what a "hobby" is and how important it is to a quality life.
Take her to a major model train show so she can see for herself and see other men, (and women) in their native habitat around model trains.
Tell her that model trains are "cute".
riogrande5761 there were stand alone houses but they had wierd layouts
You mean like TT scale European prototype or something like that?
Sorry carl, this was about the worst advice I have heard yet. I am paying for 50% of this house. I am getting what I like too, not just her and vise versus. There is no reason to assume that just because I get what I want she doesn't get what she wants. Having a nice train room shouldn't automatically mean the house is less than desireable as you are insinuating. She knows as well as I do the right house will come along.
carl425 Sorry, but I'm with the wife. I believe expecting her to live in a less than desirable house just to accomodate your hobby puts the lack of respect on your side, not hers. Only if you find two houses that she likes equally should how the railroad fits be considered. Otherwise, buy the house she likes then figure out how to fit the railroad in. Anyone who expects the lives of everyone in the house to revolve around their hobby should live alone. Should I expect my wife to live in a smaller house with a lower mortgage payment so I can use the savings to support my cocaine habit?
joe323 Question to the OP what scale are you planning? If for example HO would N be better so that you could scale back your empire to ocuppy one bedroom and avoid modifying the basement? If you can confine the size of your MRR maybe that would make it easier to negotiate with the powers that be?
I had another post somewhere with a brief description. I modeled HO when I was a kid. I have been collecting HO ever since. I have an extensive collection of rolling stock and power and a fair amount of track all in HO scale. Most of it brand new in boxes still waiting for a better day! I could never think to change scales, HO is my favourite.
I am going to model modern heavy haul freight. My ideal layout is two different systems, (Chessie and Soo Line) that interchange with each other and each has 3 different "cities" or terminals. I want to have realistic yards, usual industries and train lengths of 30-50 cars. I want nice broad curves, long straight sections and so on. Clearly you can't have this in a bedroom or two. This has been my dream for the last 20 years. We are in no rush to buy just "any" house. We will wait till the perfect house comes up. My wife is back to her usual self. My in-laws are still in Florida right now, but I know basically they are idoits about this and I am just going to ignore them. My dad is pretty good about it, my mom is - well.. she's my mom and she never liked trains so that is her problem. Everyone was basically panicking because I was passing on that beautiful house for a reason that was very stupid to them. Now they kinda now how serious me and my wife are about it. I think they have more respect, but who knows.
heavydI am paying for 50% of this house. I am getting what I like too, not just her and vise versus.
Not to pick a fight here or anything, but there is an error in your math. If you want the entire basement in a 1 story house for the railroad, that's 50% of the usable square feet. I assume you still intend to live upstairs so you are also claiming half of the other half. It looks to me like you want to claim 75% of the house in exchange for 50% of the investment.
I like the idea of having space for the railroad as much as the next guy, but it is certainly not on the same level of importance as living space for the rest of the family. My wife is a retired stay at home mom looking forward to being a stay at home grandmom and makes no financial contribution at all. I would still not consider taking your negotiating position.
Do you really mean to say that this advice is worse than the suggestion that you divorce her?
heavyd, keep looking and you'll find something that had features you both want!
I can say that my 10x18' room is definitely not big enough for a dream layout, and probably smaller than what would work for you, with 30-50 car trains, long yards and nice broad curves. I've managed to squeeze a track plan in my room that has 32-inch minimum curves and goes around the walls twice. My 11 track staging yard will hold some of the trains that are 25-30 cars in length, the rest shorter. If you can manage a room 15x25 feet, that wouldn't be too bad.
In the area I live, northern Virginia (west of Washington DC) the housing market has been so hot in the past couple years, any home that is attractive by location, features and price gets a lot of competition - mulitple offers. I started in August and the 2nd house we put an offer in on was in November - and we had at least one other competitor, and fortunately our offer was accepted. I think by late fall, things were cooling off which helped. In spring/summer, it is crazy. Hopefully you won't have such a tough market!
I was recently in a similar situation after we bought a house two years ago. As an architect and as a model railroader with a small layout in progress, here's my two cents.
*Build modular: To your own standard or another, this allows easy expansion over time rather than taking over the house and having it in a half finished condition for years on end. It's much easier to ease your wife into the idea of a rail empire if it slowly builds for 20 years.
*Avoid removing functional rooms: Avoid demolishing functional bedrooms and bathrooms to create your layout space. Not only does this cost money and time, but you'll take a bath if you ever try to sell the place, buying the home with four bedrooms and selling it with one.
*Seek out a home that either has bad flow or is a blank slate: If it has bad flow and unusable rooms, the price may be reduced. With the extra money, you can remodel that portion of the house into both a better space and it can accomodate your layout.
*Build for quality over quantity: There is no rush in this hobby. If you build your layout to a high standard in an efficient way, the other half will be less likely to complain. I am building bookshelves and cabinetry under my modules to make use of otherwise wasted space and to serve as a centerpiece in my livingroom. It makes the layout dual use.
*Share the space: Get creative with how you design the layout. A shelf setup allows for a lot of usable space in a room. What kind of hobbies appeal to your wife? How can you design the layout in harmony with her wants and desires for the space.
My advice is to keep looking. I bought my house seven years ago, but it's still a pretty soft "buyer's market" out there for real estate. My (then-new) wife and I looked at more than 20 homes before we found the one we both loved. The selling point was it had a perfect craft room with a built-in desk for her hobbies, in addition to a large semi-finished basement for mine. Once I saw that craft room I knew I wouldn't have any problem selling her on the house. The next house you look at might be the perfect one. Don't get fixated on any one you've seen so far, and keep looking!
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com