Hey everyone. I've been waiting over 20 years to finally be in a financial spot to buy my first home with my wife. We have saved to afford a really nice size house, something in the 2200-2400 sq ft range. We have no kids and aren't having any either, so the amount of space I plan to use in the basement is huge. I have a rough idea in my head of what I want to model and what I want to include in my railroad. We found a beautiful house that my wife absolutely loved, I had to agree it will be hard to find a house like this again in that good of shape. I had to say no because the basement was cut up into bedrooms with the bathroom inbetween both bedrooms making taking down a wall impossible. Basically each bedroom was too small. Since then, I have taken a lot of flack from my wife and both sides of our family. I haven't had any trains since I was a kid, and I am the only one in the family that is into trains. So no one really understands what I want and why I need the room I need, even though I explain it. It seems all anyone can understand is me having a 8x4 "train set" in a spare bedroom. Even though I am a grown man paying for 50% of a house with my wife, I am getting backed into a corner here. I had to simply put my foot down and basically threaten our relationship to get my point across. I am looking for a good size layout, not the entire basement, but certainly larger than, "train set" size. I am just looking for any advice or related stories from anyone that had simular problems and how you worked it out.
Thanks
Fortunately my wife is very supportive of my hobby, but then again she knew from the start what it was about. I had a medium sized home layout before she met me, and it was far enough along she could readily see what to expect.
Assuming the real problem you face is a lack of understanding of what a model railroad is all about, you could try collecting some photos and articles of high-quality layouts that inspire you. Another suggestion would be to arrange a visit to a nice layout or two, showing how the train room fits into the home. A layout room that's finished well, clean, and free of clutter would be ideal for visitors who aren't used to looking past the typical mess that seems to afflict many layouts. Show your family that they don't need to expect a disaster.
Assuming you can reach an understanding about what a layout space is and how it can look, see what the reaction is. If your spouse remains skeptical, or even hostile, you have a bigger issue than just trains, and you'll have more to work through. Good luck.
Rob Spangler
It sounds like your wife is the one who doesn't understand, not father, motherm brothers uncles etc... I'd say just explain this is something you need to be involved with and that it is good for your well being. My wife has always been supportive of my hobbies, lay the guilt on her, show here what your talking about. She won't likely be interested; but, maybe if she can sees how interested you are, she will realize how important it is to you. Be patient; but, serious about your commitment. It should eventually become apparent to her that you really want this!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Buy the house, tear out walls in the basement until you get the space you want. Just make sure she knows what you will be doing.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Hey, as long as the walls are not load bearing, it shouldnt be too difficult to gut the basement. If you do it yourself, the demo would not cost any money, and, you could reuse the studs for the layout benchwork. The family might give you grief for getting rid of two bedrooms and a bath though. Maybe just dont tell them. Say its haunted down there or something.
heavyd:
If the house you mention is still available then I second the suggestions made about simply tearing out the rooms you don't want, that is assuming that the walls are not structural. If it is a newer house then they are not likely to be structural. Most newer houses have been built with steel beams and jack posts to span the basements. You can even relocate the bathroom if you can't work around it. That is kind of messy and noisey work, but quite doable.
However, I suspect that the house you refer to is out of the picture. If so, since you are still likely looking for a suitable house, I would suggest that you and your wife prepare a list of "must haves" to give to your real estate agent. How long your list is depends on how long you are willing to keep looking. Make it absolutely clear that you don't want to see anything that doesn't meet your requirements. You want a decent sized unfinished basement. You could also include the requirement that it be dry, and no sump pumps.
This is not the time to be a push over. If they do show you properties that don't meet your needs then fire them on the spot! I won't go into all the nasty details regarding how I learned to do exactly that, but once I figured out that the real estate agent we were using couldn't give a hoot about what we wanted he was toast!
Good luck!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Hmmm...If you are to maintain a peaceable kingdom, threatening the relationship is usually not the most persuasive way to achieve anything more than discontent and rebellion within the ranks. Your hunger has been held in check for a very long time, but often people who have not had a connection with this hobby, need to be drawn into the fun.
If your dearly beloved is absolutely set on one most delightful place to live, offer to agree with her, if the basement can gradually be changed into hobby space. I knew one couple that each had space gobbling hobbies-she like to quilt on a massive scale, he could not thrive without space to install about 500 feet of O scale mainline (not counting sidings, spurs and yard space). They finally settled on a three story house. The quilting filled the top floor. They lived and slept on the middle level, while he had great fun fitting his railroad plans around the immoveable objects in the basement --trivial things like the furnace, waterheater and laundry.
Many fine layouts have been built by tunneling through walls that could not be moved or removed. Those walls can be scene dividers, additional backdrop space, etc.In other words, try real hard to not let obstacles become deal breakers. Use them to enhance your creativity. Even if you start with big plans in a small space, do not fret or regret, because only the pros build a railroad quickly-and they often take longer than you might suppose.
This is a hobby, and should not be a battleground. Wars are not fun. focus on creating delight for your family , so that they can begin to take delight in what you would like to do.
Don H.
Pretty good advice so far. Take the approach that this is something that can be worked around and that some compromise may be needed. What does your wife need in a house? Make sure that's part of the conversation, too, although I won't try to play Dear Abby here.
Dave's suggestion to define your needs fairly concretely is a good one, not just for your real estate agent, but for your wife, too. Having it down on paper -- or at least in an email -- will provide everyone guidance on what's needed. The simplest metric is simply how many square feet you want. Ceiling height, doors and windows (because they intrude on layout planning), whether the space needs to be finished or you can DIY are all important considerations, too.
And make it a dry basement, agreed, if at all possible. That decision has served me well in a community infamous for swampy basement.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I am fortunate to be blessed with a wife who is very much supportive to my hobby. Model railroading is also socially a very well received hobby in my country, but still there are folks around belittleing grown men playing with trains.
I have seen couples splitting up due to the hobby, but in these cases the reason was not the hobby itself, but excessive MRRing, soaking up any free minute.
I find it difficult to give you any advice, other than telling YOH (your other half) how important this hobby is for you. Take her to a train showand let her see some well made layouts. I have not met a laydy who was not fascinated by the scenery, the little figures and cars and all that what makes up a layout - without the trains. Maybe she develops an understanding for the hobby, and while not participate in it, has a good respect for the skills and abilities that go into it.
Try to maintain household peace, but remain firm in your endeavour!
Before looking, we set some parameters. She wanted a big kitchen, and more than one bathroom. I wanted a good size basement for trains. We both wanted a pool and a yard for the dogs. With just two of us, under 2000 sq ft was plenty. Because I have bad knees, I wanted a single story house. Which also conveniently means more basement for the size of the house.
When we hit this one - it was almost perfect. The garage eats up part of what would be basement space, and the basement was divided up into multiple rooms with a wierd sort of but not quite wild west theme (see my track plan threads). But those walls can and will come down. The garage was billed as a 2 car garage but I have 3 cars in there plus tools, lawn tractor, and other stuff. And there's a nice pool in the back. Great view being on top of a hill. With about 1800 sq feet, it's plenty big, but it also is far less house than they said I could afford. I like it that way - no anxiety over the mortgage payment this way. Instead of sinking every penny into the house, I can pay the bills, allow for repairs, and still have some fun money to work on my trains - if I ever figure out a track plan.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Happy wife, happy life.
Buy the house, tear down the walls. You're both happy.
I think Rob has the heart of it.
Firstly it is important to have a wife who is understanding and willing to tolerate something that is mostly unique to men statistically - which model railroading certainly isn't the only male oriented interest btw.
Secondly, patiently explaining and educating wife and family what your passion and hobby is about is important so they can build an expectation of what you want to do.
The difficult thing for many is that they associate trains as a childrens activity and don't realize the hobby is really very popular with grown men of all ages, especially those who are middle aged and older and have the resources and time to put into the hobby; this is part of the education end of things.
Unfortunately, and hopefully this isn't the case for you, often who you marry can be a make or break situation for the hobby. My first wife wan't very tolerant of my time and money spent on trains; the sad thing is she inherited quite a bit of money so she could play at whatever she wanted, which was mostly international travel, but I had to be limited to a tiny budget which was not workable, nor acceptable to me - in other words, there wasn't equity in our marriage - part of the bigger picture that helped undo things.
I remarried in 2011 and my 2nd wife knew about my hobby from before we got married and has been very supportive of it since - she goes to train shows with me and encourages me, and dosen't mind me affording my trains as long as we can meet our budget and save some money - which is why I self limit what I spend and sell stuff to raise cash for the ever increasing cost of newer trains. My wife was supportive to the extent that she helped look long and hard to find a house with space for trains in an area where the cost of living is very high, and our ability to afford a house was quite limited. I ended up with a very modest space of 10x18 feet, but consider myself blessed after 15+ years of no space! Hopefully in a few years we'll be able to afford a little bigger house.
Ultimately, if model trains is really a major passion of yours, you will need to try very hard to make your wife and inlaws understand this. It's most important to get along with your wife if possible, but the extended family - if they can't deal with it, they may just have to take their lumps IMO. I've had some grief from my extended family, for other reasons, and I've had to make some hard decisions to keep reduce stress and have peace in my own life.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Sounds like you were looking to buy a layout space with a house around it. If that house is still on the market, buy it. Once you are in it, tear out the bedrooms and build the layout, leaving the bathroom in place. I would kill for a bathroom in my basement near the layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
Plus you can run the tracks through it and give yourself an excuse to name a town like Bruce Chubb's Pottersville.
I agree with Rich, about keeping the bathroom. You could also have a mainline running right along Your tub. LOL.
I stay out of Family affairs....I'm on the otherside of the fence....so I see things differently than the people involved see them. What's more important?
Take Care!
Frank
zstripe I agree with Rich, about keeping the bathroom. You could also have a mainline running right along Your tub. LOL. Take Care! Frank
My wife never expressed strong opposition to my hobby, but I do not think she really understood what I was trying to do and how interesting and challenging a hobby it is until I took her to see a really nice, finished layout nearby -- and also took her to Milwaukee's Trainfest where she was not only astounded by the number of people attending and the exhibits, but found any number of useful items for her artwork at the Toolman's booth.
Dave Nelson
" Even though I am a grown man paying for 50% of a house with my wife "
That sounds to me like your marriage is a separate but equal relationship. If that is the case, then a confrontational approach will probably be a burr under her saddle for life. It is time to negotiate and offer something in return. Something that you want for something that she wants.
Threads like this make me really appreciate the woman who has shared my life for almost 50 years. Neither of us pays any percentage of anything. All funds, acquired by either of us, from any source go into common pool of money that together we spend as needed or desired with the full knowledge and consent of the other. While she seldom participates, she likes my miniature empire.
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
heavyd, sorry to hear about the troubles. It sounds like you've only demonstrated your interest in trains relatively recently (even if the interest was there in your mind the whole time). If she didn't know anything about your mrr interests before dating/marrying and all of the sudden you're saying you're going to commandeer a fair portion of the house for that purpose I can understand (to an extent) her being hesitant. From your description, it sounds like it's not an option to knock down the bedroom walls unless you removed the bathroom as well. Others have eluded to the fact that this could just be "the issue" that is being chosen as the manifestation of a deeper/longer division/resentment. Counseling or other resources may be beneficial. I apologize in advance since this could be way out of line without knowing anything about your relationship. I can just say that part of my reasoning for getting into the hobby was because I felt so many things had been taken away from me/I had to sacrifice. Given a wife, kids, finances, and some family/health issues there are no more backpacking trips, canoe trips, traveling, ultimate frisbee leagues, a house with a yard, or really any social interaction whatsoever. It's commute, work, make dinner, get kids to bed, pay medical bills, go to sleep, repeat. I needed something for me that I could do in the house after the kids went to sleep. Luckily I have a three year old son who loves trains, so I say I'm doing it for him (wink, nudge). I guess what I'm saying is life comes at you and things don't always turn out as you planned. You married your wife because you love her. That's special. My recommendation is to read some men/women differences books because they give you good tips about how to approach/talk to women and gives some insight as to how they are viewing the situation. Maybe try to talk to her about the new house. What are her plans? What does she envision for the rooms? Guest rooms? Sewing rooms? Get her talking about what comes to her mind when she thinks about her dream house and how it will look after living there five years. Then maybe you can offer your thoughts about what you envision. Maybe there's some middle ground/understanding there.
I've recently revived my interest in model trains and I enjoy working on the layout. That part of me understands your position. The other part of me gave up many things that I loved because that was best for my family. Some may disagree with that and say your happiness matters most. That's fine too.
I will end this incredibly long post with a message delivered by our marriage counselor before our wedding who told us the goal of a marriage is to have a full pie. If each person plans to bring 50% of a pie to the table, some days you're only going to have half a pie when one person can't bring their half. Each person needs to bring a full pie to the table everyday. Most days you'll have two pies, which is fine - you can't have too much pie. But on bad days, you'll still have a full pie. I get nervous when I hear spouses talking about anything (chores, money, etc.) 50%. Best of luck!
Phoebe Vet " Even though I am a grown man paying for 50% of a house with my wife " That sounds to me like your marriage is a separate but equal relationship. If that is the case, then a confrontational approach will probably be a burr under her saddle for life. It is time to negotiate and offer something in return. Something that you want for something that she wants. Threads like this make me really appreciate the woman who has shared my life for almost 50 years. Neither of us pays any percentage of anything. All funds, acquired by either of us, from any source go into common pool of money that together we spend as needed or desired with the full knowledge and consent of the other. While she seldom participates, she likes my miniature empire.
I couldn't have said it better myself. A relationship is about give and take, and the giving can be successive...even several times in a row by one of the two "partners" (God how I loathe that word in this context...!)
If I ever got to the point where I had to threaten to break up my marriage with my wife, now going on 40 years, over toy trains, it would be a stark indication to me that the marriage had been largely over for some time. Or maybe just a partnership.
We will be moving very soon after 10 years and 2.5 layouts. I was careful to explain to my wife that the hobby was well down the list of priorities, and that her contentment, security, and functionality as my "partner" enjoyed primacy in any subsequent move, even to the extent of selling off my toys. There's a lot more to living than being able to have a hobby, even one that you have had to put off for decades.
Hello All,
Sounds like a tough situation to say the least.
If the house is still available buy it now and begin the negotiations.
My wife has always known I'm a tinkerer. A former electrician by trade I've always been good with my hands. My father was an architect and now that he's retired he's devoted his time to his "hobbies," sculpting and cabinet making. His father was a stone mason and his brothers were all machinists. Growing up he always had his workshop and my mom reaped the benefits of his spare-time interests.
My wife's family background is doctors and lawyers. They appreciate the trades but would rather hire someone than do it themselves. Nothing wrong with that, it keeps folks like us employed.
She knew I had a train set when I was a kid but I don't think she really knew how much I loved the hobby.
Last March there was a train show down in Denver that we attended. I warned her that I would probably buy a "starter" set and begin building a layout in the spare bedroom/computer room. She reluctantly agreed. I had a self imposed size of 4x8 to be setup on the spare bed.
At the train show she saw that this hobby is much more than old men playing with toys. She marveled at the layout displays and the amount of time, effort and skill required to produce such fine models. She also saw the youth outreach and participation.
Well as usually happens with me, it quickly expanded. Because of finances I decided to scratch build or kitbash as much as I could with found items. Also it was a great opportunity to buy more tools rather than RTR items. "Hello, my name is Jim and I'm a tool-aholic."
Shortly after I began building things at work took a turn for the worst. New management took over and created a hostile work environment. I was forced to leave a profession I had dreamed about and work hard at. No job, no prospects. It was devastating.
With all my spare time I threw myself into the railroad. It occupied my time, was productive, expanded my world by joining forums like this and gave me a purpose. My wife saw this and realized that this hobby can be cathartic. "People who have model railroads don't commit suicide."
I don't know if she will ever fully realize what this hobby means to me and I know her family probably doesn't understand why a grown man would play with toys. But she does see what a benefit this hobby has been to me.
My point...try to begin your negotiations with how much this hobby means to you and how she indirectly benefits from it.
I agree, take her to some shows, let her see the amazing effort and the people behind those efforts. She may never fully understand your obsession; I can think of worse, but hopefully she will appreciate it.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
arvanlaaDevelop a drinking problem and then tell her this would have never have happened if I had trains :P No seriously though,...
Wife comes to husband of many years and tells him she's gone over the finances. Times are tight, and she says she's noticed he has been drinking about $90 in beer every month.
"You'll have to cut back, or stop altogether."
He fumes a bit, and then says, "You spend about $200 on nails, spas, and hair every month. Why don't you cut back?"
"I do that to make me look pretty for you," she replies coldly.
"That's what the beer was for."
selector"That's what the beer was for."
hah hah. Beer never worked that way for me, but maybe it's because I enjoy it for the taste and don't drink enough of it to change the way things look. Of course if you have enough of it to make someone look a lot more attractive, it may also have negative affects on your love life, if you get my drift, so I hear.
" Even though I am a grown man paying for 50% of a house with my wife " That sounds to me like your marriage is a separate but equal relationship.
That sounds to me like your marriage is a separate but equal relationship.
That seems to be the modern way - I can't tell you how many marriage's I've heard about where they are defined by his money and her money, and the each pay their share of the rent/mortgage etc. Perhaps this is how people prepare for divorce from the start - they keep everything separate for what many seem to feel is inevidable. A pretty depressing way to live.
I agree that separate but equal is common today, and I also agree with the probable reason. I did not derogate, just merely defined what it looks like to me.
As someone who doesn't even remember single very clearly, my personal feeling is that if you are considering a "pre-nup" perhaps you should be reconsidering the new mate. However, I do not judge the validity of other relationships by the terms of my own.
Dave. I could be wrong but it seems like a vicious cycle - the separation of finances. I've participated in a non-RR forum for years where this kind of thing is frequently discussed and more often than not, the finances are not equal but still separate. Anyway, I've read statistically that financial issues are one of the top problems which lead to divorce so I have assumed that many people now keep separate finances from the beginning of marriage to protect them in the expected statistically likely eventual divorce. But the down side to it seems to foster less "integratedness" in the marriage and sets the stage for going separate ways down the road sooner or later. My wifes mother has an old fashioned saying, you should start as you mean to go on - so people starting with separate fiances and property seem to be meaning to go on that way, even if unintentional - a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
I know my parents generation - marriages were almost always integrated with finances and property etc - whats mine is yours and visa versa. They've told me this and commented on how they felt it is unhealthy for couples to keep everything separately; I'm not making a judgement call good or bad about what my parents told me - but this was the asumption under which their generation operated. I don't know statistically if their rate of divorce was lower than the baby boomers or the gen Xers etc, but I do know a lot of folks from their generation who stayed married for life and lived the old fashioned way - and a few who got remarried too.
It does seem pre-nups are made with divorce in mind too - just look at all the actors in Hollywood who are loaded and marry someone who takes half of their wealth after only married a couple years. I speak in generalities however.
I truly hope the original poster has an understanding wife. I guess if his interest in trains was something that lay dormant for a number of years, then she may not understand the latent desire to build a layout. Some patient education and perhaps visits to some layouts might help her see what it's all about.
Ultimately it could be any number of passions or hobbies, such as motor cycles, cars, crafts, musical instruments, RC cars or planes or other things I haven't thought of - if the spouse is understanding and time and finances are balanced with life the spouse isn't turned into a train widow, then it shouldn't be a problem. Honestly, I'd like to be making a lot more progress on my layout than I am, but I want to spend plenty of time with my wife and nuture our relationship too. So building lots of kits, painting and decalling - heck, - the layout takes what little time I have right now - why I like RTR stuff!
Get a new wife.
heavyd Hey everyone. I've been waiting over 20 years to finally be in a financial spot to buy my first home with my wife. We have saved to afford a really nice size house, something in the 2200-2400 sq ft range. We have no kids and aren't having any either, so the amount of space I plan to use in the basement is huge. I have a rough idea in my head of what I want to model and what I want to include in my railroad. We found a beautiful house that my wife absolutely loved, I had to agree it will be hard to find a house like this again in that good of shape. I had to say no because the basement was cut up into bedrooms with the bathroom inbetween both bedrooms making taking down a wall impossible. Basically each bedroom was too small. Since then, I have taken a lot of flack from my wife and both sides of our family. I haven't had any trains since I was a kid, and I am the only one in the family that is into trains. So no one really understands what I want and why I need the room I need, even though I explain it. It seems all anyone can understand is me having a 8x4 "train set" in a spare bedroom. Even though I am a grown man paying for 50% of a house with my wife, I am getting backed into a corner here. I had to simply put my foot down and basically threaten our relationship to get my point across. I am looking for a good size layout, not the entire basement, but certainly larger than, "train set" size. I am just looking for any advice or related stories from anyone that had simular problems and how you worked it out. Thanks
I will say, Good Luck to you and remind you that compromise is always necessary and I’m sure it will all eventually work out!