I've been searching this forum for info about laying flex track on curves and what to do if the curve is interrupted by a turnout before reaching a tangent. There's a lot of good advice-- it seems most like to solder the flex to the turnout straight and then bend it into place on the layout to avoid kinks. I have two questions about this:
First, it seems like using this method might get you into trouble if you have to replace a turnout or work on it off-layout for some reason, as you may have to also rip out up to nine feet of surrounding track. Has anybody actually done this, or found a way around it?
Second, my layout is pretty small, and I'm finding as I lay out the pieces that it's consistently alternating turnout-flex-turnout-flex-- very few flex pieces connected to one another. A lot of that is on curves. What would you recommend for this? I don't love the idea of soldering the entire trackwork together at once, especially since I live in Chicago and the layout's next home will be Pittsburgh, both of which can see high humidity swings.
P
pt714First, it seems like using this method might get you into trouble if you have to replace a turnout or work on it off-layout for some reason, as you may have to also rip out up to nine feet of surrounding track. Has anybody actually done this, or found a way around it?
I heat the rail joiner enough to melt the solder then slide the joiner onto the flex.
pt714Second, my layout is pretty small, and I'm finding as I lay out the pieces that it's consistently alternating turnout-flex-turnout-flex-- very few flex pieces connected to one another. A lot of that is on curves. What would you recommend for this? I don't love the idea of soldering the entire trackwork together at once, especially since I live in Chicago and the layout's next home will be Pittsburgh, both of which can see high humidity swings.
There is no rule that says just because flex track comes in 36" pieces that you have to install it that way. Cut a few pieces on straight sections and connect them with an unsoldered joiner if you feel the need for expansion joints.
OTOH, we do have the technology to control indoor humidity.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
For that very reason, I don't solder flex track to my turnouts. I just make sure there are lots of wires feeding power to many places on the track so there are no dead spots. Kinks are not a problem for me. If there is potential for kinks, I can just add a few extra spikes to hold things into shape. I have a bag of HO spikes I can put drive in where needed - the homasote I use under the track holds them well.
I don't glue my track down and yes, I have already had to pull up track on several occasions for different reasons and put put it back down. Track nails or spikes instead of glue make this very easy - just pull them out with needle nose pliers and replace. No solder on the joints connecting track to turnouts or turnouts to turnouts.
As for your track work, you don't have to solder everything. In fact you don't have to solder anything. But if you don't, I would recommend wire feeders to nearly every joint to make sure everything is live for power. What I do is drill holes next to those joints, and run AWG 22 solid wire up and solder it to the sides of the metal rail joiners, that way the track can slide into the joiner (or out if it needs to be removed). Very flexible that way. Being able to slide a bit may allow your track to "breath" if if exands and contracts in an environment where there are temperature and humidy swings. (if the layout is in a basement, you can run a dehumidifier to minimize humidy swings, thats what I do).
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I have a few curved turnouts on my layout and have soldered all of the joints with the flex track. And I have had to replace one. Ditto with straight T/O's, too. I use a thin cut off wheel in my Dremel to cut through the joint right at the seam, then with heat the rail joiner halves enough to push them off the rail ends.
The humidity changes here in the Pacific Northwest are not as severe as the midwest or east but they are still present. I laid my mainline one summer, soldering all joints as I went. When winter came with the furnace heating lowering the humidity I discovered several "wow's" in my track. Gaps cut (that thin cut off wheel again) ever six to eight feet solved the problem. No wow's in the five years since.
I solder my curved turnouts to flextrack for many reasons. BE SURE to keep your track/turnouts level or superelevated in a consistent manner to avoid derails with longer equipment, one reason I solder. I use PECO turnouts for this since they're fairly easily repaired. One thing I do is to glue on a .010 or .020 thick piece of plastic on the guard rail of the turnout to push the flange of one wheel of an axle over so that the opposite wheel won't pick on a frog point.
I've also had to unsolder the turnout and when I do that I take a part of the flex track with it so that when I put the new turnout in the flextrack is already soldered in place to make sure transitions don't cause derails.
I don't solder every flextrack to flextrack joint. Mainly ones on curves. Again because of 3 dimensional stability/consistency.
Richard
Though a bit tricky to work with Micro Engineering flex track holds it's shape when curved. Spiking the curved turnouts and gluing down the pre-curved M.E. flex worked good for me. Left some gaps since my layout shares a finished garage with the family automobile.
Don't see big humidity and temp swings around these parts, but painting all surfaces of the wooden bench work does help with moisture transfer. I envy those fortunate enough to have their layout in the house.
regards, Peter
Since you're speaking of regular turnouts and not curved ones, I'd install the turnouts first, then connect them with the flex. And don't be afraid of soldering your track, including turnouts, together. I'm in southern Ontario, with lots high humidity and humidity swings. All of my track is soldered together, and I've never had a problem with expansion or contraction of the rail or benchwork. If you need to remove a turnout, heat the joints and slide the joiners onto either the turnout or the adjoining track. Even on ballasted track, this isn't a big deal at all. Another option is to simply cut the rail where necessary.
Wayne
Weather-related expansion and contraction is generally from the wood and subroadbed. It's not a problem with the track. If you use wood, paint or seal it to prevent it from absorbing moisture. Or, use foam as it does not absorb water at all.
I always try to solder flex-to-turnout connections. it's very important to have no kinks when approaching a turnout, either horizontal or vertical, or you will get derailments. If necessary, you can cut the rail or heat up the joint and remove the solder with a braid or solder sucker tool. Once down, I seldom have to ever remove a turnout unless I'm relaying the track to change its path, and in that case I'm pulling the approach tracks anyway.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I think that your problem starts with the fact that you have turnouts on curves.
When I have encountered that design problem, I have used curved turnouts as the solution. When you use "straight" turnouts on curves, kinks are all but unavoidable in my experience.
I don't use caulk to hold down my track, and I don't solder my track except on curves. I use track nails to hold down my track, but I have found that when you use track nails to fight kinks, you just multiply the problem. Like you, I don't like to solder flex track to turnouts because of the possible future need to move or adjust the turnout.
My advice is to use curved turnouts and to use the longest uncut pieces of flex track as possible. If you are saying that you have lots of turnouts on your curves, requiring a lot of small connecting pieces of flex track, you may have no choice but to solder the entire concoction together to ensure a kink-free run of track.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks all, lots of great responses so far! I think I should clarify: I am working with curved turnouts (the main line is actually almost ALL curved turnouts.)
The track will be caulked to cork, which is in turn caulked to 2" of foam and a thin sheet of ply. Like I said, it's small-- there's only about 22' of mainline with all the sections connected together, and the track basically encounters a turnout every 24-36", most of those curved turnouts in curves. Seems like the thing to do is solder all the joints in place-- I can de-solder them if I need to remove any piece of trackwork. It sounds like having laid it on foam might help protect against some expansion, but I'll seal the wood beneath for insurance.
P, good to know that you are using curved turnouts.
At one time, I formed my curves with flex track but did not solder the connections. Kinks were inevitable, but that was without any turnouts on the curves.
I now solder all flex track connections on curves. However, where I have added curved turnouts, I have not soldered those connections, and I have not had any problems with kinks, probably because of the pre-formed curves of the curved turnouts.
This photo has 3 curved turnouts in it:
I have used big compas and lot of measurements and drawing to lay my track and even I meticoulousely trace the line, some error occured when laying the track and making easements.
I discovered an extremely easy method to trace the centerline for laying track on the site of Mister David Stewart www.aorailroad.com , if you visit the "blog" on his site you will sse how he use whith lot of succes the yardstick method.
It so simple, I did'nt ever use a compas or scientific calcul to lay my track.
The yardstick is a piece of wood flexible enough to form curve and follow zig-zag line.
The yardstick is just blocked whith nails here and there to stay in place, the centerline is just traced along when you are happy whith the design.
If you place a turnout, check the point where the turnout will be on the curve , block the yardstick on the centerline curve and trace an open centerline from the first centerline.
More important the method give you natural easement for curves; it's just necessary to check here and there the radius of the curve, but if an asked 30 inch radius is designed and the yardstick give you a 31 or 32 inch radius no matter.
One of the greatest asset of this method is the resulting floooowing track which look extremely natural.
I have also explained on this forum my method to design the track on my layout.
Marc, I used the yardstick as well-- I read about it in Track Planning for Realistic Operation. I'm excited to see what it looks like once the track is all down. I think it'll be less obvious here than it would be on some large sweeping curves, since my layout is so small, but flowing trackwork is extremely important to me also. For that reason, my turnouts were scratchbuilt using the resulting easement curves as templates. The problem for me is making sure that flow is not interrupted by any kinks, which I'll have to be careful about considering where the turnouts are placed.
riogrande5761 This photo has 3 curved turnouts in it:
Are all of the track pieces soldered together in this photo? I'm looking at the little ones that connect the straight and curved turnouts specifically, but it seems like all of them would have to be one-pieced until you got to a straightaway.
pt714 P
P,
You can pre-bend some brands of flex track. I work with Atlas flex, and it can be pre-bent using your hands, if you're careful. The problem is that it is tough to get the very last ends curved, since they want to lay straight.
You can bend the entire piecs of flex into the desired radius, then cut off the last six inches on either end, or anywhere along the bent piece, leaving the curved majority of the track for installing on your layout.
If you pre-bend the track, make sure to start broad then sharpen the curve, otherwise you may make small section an 18 in radius kink in the middle of your broad curve if you move too harshly.
I also use the scraps. Try to straighten any bend, then solder the little pieces together. It works great for buidling a little used spur, buried in the weeds. All the little pieces zig and zag a little just like a poorly maintianed spur.
- Douglas
My solution to curving flex track is to (1) solder the connections between pieces of flex track to complete the curve and (2) solder one additional piece of flex track onto each end of the completed curved section so that the entire section of soldered track includes at least a short segment of straight track.
MisterBeasley Weather-related expansion and contraction is generally from the wood and subroadbed. It's not a problem with the track. If you use wood, paint or seal it to prevent it from absorbing moisture. Or, use foam as it does not absorb water at all. I always try to solder flex-to-turnout connections. it's very important to have no kinks when approaching a turnout, either horizontal or vertical, or you will get derailments. If necessary, you can cut the rail or heat up the joint and remove the solder with a braid or solder sucker tool. Once down, I seldom have to ever remove a turnout unless I'm relaying the track to change its path, and in that case I'm pulling the approach tracks anyway.
I agree with MisterBeasley. Once you get all you track down and trains running, there is not really a need to pull up a turnout unless YOU DAMAGE IT. So becareful with them.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.