How big is a yard?
How long is a string?
I have seen a couple of prototype yards that go on forever (Roseville, Strawberry...)
I have seen a local crew sort the cars from the interchange track using the main and the interchange track, that being all they had.
My own prototype ran short trains of small cars, so I can get away with a small yard that isn't that compressed. The fact that my TTT/JNR unit coal trains aren't Powder River monsters doesn't upset me. Neither does the fact that all the space I have would fit on 1/4 of a floor exercise mat and leave change. Just how much layout can a physically challenged lone wolf expect to build and maintain, anyway?
So the 1:1 scale railroads have entire states to build in. They also have thousands of employees (and can hire specialists for unusual situations) If someone finds that intimidating maybe they should try, not aircraft (which require ground facilities that dwarf most rail facilities, not to mention a world-wide traffic control system,) but doll houses. Judging by the prices I've noted in passing, you can do just as much damage to your credit rating - but doll houses are unlikely to stall out and crash on takeoff.
(And off in the corner the Fast Tracks guru is rolling on the floor. His CNJ Bronx Freight Terminal is all the track a major railroad had in the State of New York - an area that scales down to a close approximation of the much-maligned 4 x 8 in HO...)
Chuck (Former aircraft mechanic modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Yard length??
Gee, a yard is a yard is a yard...
HO, O , N or Z:
it is 36" all day long!
and that is about the total length of my 4 spur yard tracks { on my HO scale layout}.
Sorry I first read that wrong!
Seriously, "selective compression" HAS to come into play in an scale model.
We can't always make something to "scale"
remember a "Model" is dictionary described as "a representation of something". NOT an "exact to scale thing".
I once calculated what footage I would need to "model" a local shortline of about 18 miles long, to do it in N scale. I gave up, needless to say.
and a yard is still 36".
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Big Boy ForeverI'm somewhere in the middle myself trying to make compromises and make a pretty realistic layout within reasonable limitations in this case, a decent facsimilie of a prototype yard.
One thing I've notice yards that measure 8-10 feet seems to be more convincing then a short yard of 4-6 feet although those small yards work for outlaying yards near large industrial areas or a short line yard.
Another thing I've notice is some modelers seem to go out of their way to dwarf their yard with a super size engine servicing area which efficiently kills all realism unless you're modeling a steam era engine and crew change point with a small yard for local industries.
The key to any yard is balance that will lead to believability.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I typed "railroad yard" in Google Images and got this page:
https://www.google.com/search?q=railroad+yard&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS475&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=lCl_U7PEFsuKyAS2m4H4Aw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=1440&bih=787
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain I typed "railroad yard" in Google Images and got this page: https://www.google.com/search?q=railroad+yard&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS475&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=lCl_U7PEFsuKyAS2m4H4Aw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=1440&bih=787 Rich
I wuz half hoping to see model yards not prototype yards.
Nice photos but,they don't help the OP find a solution.
BRAKIE richhotrain I typed "railroad yard" in Google Images and got this page: https://www.google.com/search?q=railroad+yard&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS475&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=lCl_U7PEFsuKyAS2m4H4Aw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=1440&bih=787 Rich I wuz half hoping to see model yards not prototype yards. Nice photos but,they don't help the OP find a solution.
If you really want something to complain about, how about a scale budget? I wouldn't mine having 1/87th of the N&W's 1975 income to work with. Or would that be a cube root thing since it would require a big pile of money?
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
carl425 If you really want something to complain about, how about a scale budget? I wouldn't mine having 1/87th of the N&W's 1975 income to work with. Or would that be a cube root thing since it would require a big pile of money?
A used real SD-40 is about $80,000 to $100,000.
A used Athearn SD-40 is about $30 to $60 roughly.
Thats about $1,034 1/87 scale dollars.
Good thing hobby shops don't take 1/87 scale income.
Phoebe Vet Big Boy Forever 60 feet = 1 mile in HO. 30 feet = 1/2 mile 15 feet = 1/4 Mile Prototype yards I've seen are 1 to 5 miles long. HO Yard Length = Unrealistic ....(Unless you have a big room) What Say You ? Since I don''t have an indoor football field on which to model, I guess I will give up model railroading and change to model aircraft.
Big Boy Forever 60 feet = 1 mile in HO. 30 feet = 1/2 mile 15 feet = 1/4 Mile Prototype yards I've seen are 1 to 5 miles long. HO Yard Length = Unrealistic ....(Unless you have a big room) What Say You ?
60 feet = 1 mile in HO.
30 feet = 1/2 mile
15 feet = 1/4 Mile
Prototype yards I've seen are 1 to 5 miles long.
HO Yard Length = Unrealistic ....(Unless you have a big room)
What Say You ?
Since I don''t have an indoor football field on which to model, I guess I will give up model railroading and change to model aircraft.
Will you model the airports, too?
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
I always get a kick out of reading the layout articles in MR where the owner says he runs trains of 20-30 cars on his layout and using the grid for the track plan find out his passing tracks and yards tracks will only hold about 10 cars max, and his indurtries about 2-3 cars
Frank
I feel that the length of the yard tracks and also passing sidings are dependent on the length of the trains that you plan on running. And I am talking about a classification yard, not staging. The easiest and most efficient way a model yard operates is that the departing train takes all the cars on a particular yard track. (Yard tracks also hold only cars and not a complete train.) So if your trains are going to consist of 15 cars max, then the yard tracks should hold 15 cars each. As for the passing sidings, add to the 15 cars the length of one or two locomotives and a caboose (if you run them) and that can be the length of the shortest passing siding.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
steemtrayn Phoebe Vet Big Boy Forever 60 feet = 1 mile in HO. 30 feet = 1/2 mile 15 feet = 1/4 Mile Prototype yards I've seen are 1 to 5 miles long. HO Yard Length = Unrealistic ....(Unless you have a big room) What Say You ? Since I don''t have an indoor football field on which to model, I guess I will give up model railroading and change to model aircraft. Will you model the airports, too?
If I wanted an Airport on my layout to be realistic, it would be in a backdrop photo and that's it.
So in conclusion, you've alerted us to the fact that we can't realistically model a railroad yard.
I don't think you've popped anyones bubble!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 So in conclusion, you've alerted us to the fact that we can't realistically model a railroad yard. I don't think you've popped anyones bubble!
No, not really, that's your interpretation.
Here's one end of my major yard under construction:
It's about 13 feet long. This is by far the most "railroady" model yard I've ever built, which I attribute to the tracks being long enough to hold a decent number of cars in each. I don't know the magic number of cars that makes this work, but I do know that it looks and feels "right," even though it's still not anywhere near prototype length.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Brunton Here's one end of my major yard under construction: It's about 13 feet long. This is by far the most "railroady" model yard I've ever built, which I attribute to the tracks being long enough to hold a decent number of cars in each. I don't know the magic number of cars that makes this work, but I do know that it looks and feels "right," even though it's still not anywhere near prototype length.
How big is your train room?
What other features do you have on your pike?....i.e....mainline industries etc.?
Big Boy Forever No, not really, that's your interpretation.
I have that book and have been reading it for a few months now. There is so much info in it, plus trying to design modules to take apart when I move with a track plan I like, that it is difficult to get what info I am looking for. Most of his plans are for permanent layouts. I have only found the term, "selective compression" one time so far in that book. How exactly to apply it to my specific circumstance is a challenge to put it mildly.
wjstix Big Boy Forever 60 feet = 1 mile in HO. 30 feet = 1/2 mile 15 feet = 1/4 Mile Prototype yards I've seen are 1 to 5 miles long. HO Yard Length = Unrealistic ....(Unless you have a big room) What Say You ? I'd say it's exactly the same as everything else in model railroading. We reduce the size of things so they fit our space. A "broad" HO curve of 30" radius would be considered a sharp curve on the prototype, requiring trains to slow to 15-20 MPH to go through. Very few (if any) folks have a layout where they can run 3 diesels and 220 ore cars like the CN/DMIR do, because they'd have the engines in one city, the end of the train in another, and the middle of the train would be in another city halfway between the other two!!
Right, so I'm trying to slim it all down to some unknown parameters and dimensions, and apply it to my layout, but still have it look as realistic as possible.
I think selective compression came in vogue after John Armstrong wrote his book and any mention of the word may be due to latter day updating. I really enjoyed reaing it myself and while it may not be oriented to modules, there is lots of great information in there.
The edition I have he calls 18 inch radii sharp, 24 inches moderate and 30 inches broad! It just goes to show you how times change. My minimum on my 10 x 18' layout is 32 inches and autoracks look even a bit silly on the 32 inch curves!
Cheers, Jim
Big Boy Forever I have only found the term, "selective compression" one time so far in that book.
Look for his oft-repeated use of the word "condensed" in Track Planning for Realistic Operation. Armstrong offers many examples for readers who take the time to learn from them.
Big Boy Forevertrying to design modules to take apart when I move with a track plan I like, that it is difficult to get what info I am looking for. Most of his plans are for permanent layouts.
I don't think there is that much difference -- the basic design principles are the same. This larger HO layout was intended from the beginning to be sectionalized. But I did the basic design first without thinking much about sections and then went back and adjusted to best fit the sectional benchwork. Pretty straightforward.
Note that the sections vary in size and shape -- this makes it easier to fit the sections to the plan, rather than vice-versa. Note that no turnouts fall on a section joint and I tried to minimize the total number of tracks that cross section joints where I could by adjusting the sections. The main yard, for example, is made up of different-sized sections arranged to reduce the number of tracks crossing joints.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Big Boy ForeverWhat is the square size on your layout?
If you go to the linked web page and download the full .pdf, you'll see that it is a 1-foot grid. Pretty standard.
Big Boy,
My train room is about 40 X 25.
Laurel represents the interchange point between the NP transcontinental in MT and the CB&Q line through Wyoming. It also represents the CB&Q east from Crawford NE. It should be very busy, with 25 to 45 car trains passing through from Seattle WA staging to Minneapolis MN staging on the NP, and 20-25 car trains east from Crawford NE. The CB&Q will deliver 15-25 car trains to Laurel from the mainline through Wyoming, and pick up 15-25 car trains traveling north or south through Wyoming. Check out my website (different track plan, same concept) and my construction blog for more details.
selectorAnd on it goes... Do RC aircraft really 'fly?'
Yes, and at speeds very close to full-scale airplanes. They do not have any more spiral stability and must be flown 'all the time' like the prototype. I mostly fly Cessna 172 and the equivalent Piper Warior. My friend had an RC plane that looked and flew like our flying club 172. The RC plane's airspeed was about 75-100% of the full scale, about 100 MPH.
Big Boy Forever Actually, I was just trying to pick up a few pointers on making as realistic, "as is reasonably possible" in HO, a railroad yard from like minded individuals
Actually, I was just trying to pick up a few pointers on making as realistic, "as is reasonably possible" in HO, a railroad yard from like minded individuals
A few years ago Model Railroad Planning or maybe MR suggested a road over-pass over the middle of the yard. It could serve as an effective view-block to enhance the illusion that the yard is much longer. -Nathan
Big Boy Forever carl425 And theirs doesn't have dcc either, but it has a really good sound system If you really want something to complain about, how about a scale budget? I wouldn't mine having 1/87th of the N&W's 1975 income to work with. Or would that be a cube root thing since it would require a big pile of money? A used real SD-40 is about $80,000 to $100,000. A used Athearn SD-40 is about $30 to $60 roughly. Thats about $1,034 1/87 scale dollars. Good thing hobby shops don't take 1/87 scale income.
carl425 And theirs doesn't have dcc either, but it has a really good sound system If you really want something to complain about, how about a scale budget? I wouldn't mine having 1/87th of the N&W's 1975 income to work with. Or would that be a cube root thing since it would require a big pile of money?
Big Boy ForeverGood thing hobby shops don't take 1/87 scale income.
One needs to look at what will fit in your space. The length of passing tracks. The length of trains. What is the proposed purpose of the yard? is it a major clasification yard a division point an interchange or a yard that will serve local industries to name a few. Each track does not have to hold an entire train as many times trains would double into the yard, put their train on two tracks because it was too long to fit into one. If your trains are 20 cars or less it would be nice to have tracks that would hold the entire train. If you ever run a prototype length train, I ran a 160 car coal train on the club layout and have run 167 cars just to do it, you will likely need to double or more when switching the train into the yard, that train is over 80 feet long and has more than a foot of slack in it.
Our yard tracks are approx 12 to 16 feet long, and that train takes up 8 tracks. The yard tracks look ok at that length and you can put a few cars in them. If they were longer they would look better.
Rob in Texas
riogrande5761I think selective compression came in vogue after John Armstrong wrote his book and any mention of the word may be due to latter day updating.
Actually the idea of selective compression had been kicked around for several years-I first heard it mention in the Columbus O Scale club back in '56 of course being 8 years old I was wondering what "selective compression" was about..IIRC it was also mention by Paul Larson-editor of MR of the time..John Armstrong just show us how to apply selective compression.