Paul_in_GA Yes his plan looks excellent. But from what I see how do I know what track I would need? How would I know what goes where? This is the confusing part. You guys can look at a nice drawing like this and infer a LOT but it's all Grek to me as it were. I would need to know what pieces of track, where it would go, the buildings and where they would go etc. I'd LOVE to build this but I need more information. So in the meantime I'm just gonna wait for my track to arrive, set it up, wire it for DCC and play with two trains going at once. No scenery, no elevations, no buildings, just track and trains.
Yes his plan looks excellent. But from what I see how do I know what track I would need? How would I know what goes where? This is the confusing part. You guys can look at a nice drawing like this and infer a LOT but it's all Grek to me as it were. I would need to know what pieces of track, where it would go, the buildings and where they would go etc. I'd LOVE to build this but I need more information.
So in the meantime I'm just gonna wait for my track to arrive, set it up, wire it for DCC and play with two trains going at once. No scenery, no elevations, no buildings, just track and trains.
By all means, set up your track, wire it, and run the trains. Just keep that plan handy for the day you want to build a layout. As Stein said, exact placement of each item isn't the issue, especially with the buildings.
Most of the plan is designed with flextrack and Atlas #6 turnouts (I think that's what Paulus usually uses).
Flex track comes in 3 foot sections and is designed to bend, unlike sectional track. This allows you to make broad sweeping curves instead of going from a consistent curve to a perfect straight, like you'd have to do with sectional track. Modeler's like flex track since it can be flexed into more realistic curves. And since it comes in 3 foot sections, there a fewer joints between sections.
Cutting and laying flextrack are some of those skills that are acquired. Not difficult at all, but certain ways are better than others.
Some of us like analyzing track plans. Its not really essential to the hobby, just an aspect that some enjoy.
If you are interested is specific topics, you should also use the search function on this forum. There is a wealth of knowledge archived in the forum discussing many of the issues you might have questions about.
- Douglas
steinjr Doughless it is my understanding that the Bachmann 44tonner will run just fine on the same NCE powercab you will use for your U23B. Absolutely. The cheapest Bachman diesels come with a plain decoder, but it has the core DCC functionalities - you can assign it an id, and do the basic stuff like change directions, speed up and slow down. I also agree with Doughless about Paulus's plan - it is a good plan and a good concept, no matter whether you have to leave the shelves where they are or not, and no matter if the desk is in the lower right hand corner or next to the cupboard. Just don't build the optional area indicated in light tan if space gets too tight with the desk next to the cupboard. It also has the advantage relative to a 4x8 that it is far easier to get a store to cut a 4x8 sheet of plywood into e.g. 2x4 foot sections, and then transporting those sections home in the back seat of a normal car. And as Doughless mentioned - even though Paulus has single tracked some sections to get more interaction between trains (one train has to wait while another train uses the single track section), you could double track all the way if you want to have two trains running continuously. It is not the exact placement of every turnout, or the exact curves of the benchwork that are important to take away - it is the concept that one option is to do a smaller doughnut style in the upper right hand corner, and make benchwork high enough that it is easy to duck under (or roll under on an office chair) the narrow benchwork section. But whatever - just take a pause, relax a little, read a little in a couple of the books you have coming, and try to remember that very few of us are super great artists - I know that I am no artist. I like running trains. I know a thing or two about why and how railroads operate. I can analyze track plans for functionality. But I am most emphatically not a great landscape artist. A few lucky people can do great scenery work right off the bat. Most people have to do things over several times before they get something that is good enough. Good enough is a reasonable standard for most things in model railroading. Smile, Stein
Doughless it is my understanding that the Bachmann 44tonner will run just fine on the same NCE powercab you will use for your U23B.
it is my understanding that the Bachmann 44tonner will run just fine on the same NCE powercab you will use for your U23B.
Absolutely. The cheapest Bachman diesels come with a plain decoder, but it has the core DCC functionalities - you can assign it an id, and do the basic stuff like change directions, speed up and slow down.
I also agree with Doughless about Paulus's plan - it is a good plan and a good concept, no matter whether you have to leave the shelves where they are or not, and no matter if the desk is in the lower right hand corner or next to the cupboard. Just don't build the optional area indicated in light tan if space gets too tight with the desk next to the cupboard.
It also has the advantage relative to a 4x8 that it is far easier to get a store to cut a 4x8 sheet of plywood into e.g. 2x4 foot sections, and then transporting those sections home in the back seat of a normal car.
And as Doughless mentioned - even though Paulus has single tracked some sections to get more interaction between trains (one train has to wait while another train uses the single track section), you could double track all the way if you want to have two trains running continuously. It is not the exact placement of every turnout, or the exact curves of the benchwork that are important to take away - it is the concept that one option is to do a smaller doughnut style in the upper right hand corner, and make benchwork high enough that it is easy to duck under (or roll under on an office chair) the narrow benchwork section.
But whatever - just take a pause, relax a little, read a little in a couple of the books you have coming, and try to remember that very few of us are super great artists - I know that I am no artist. I like running trains. I know a thing or two about why and how railroads operate. I can analyze track plans for functionality. But I am most emphatically not a great landscape artist.
A few lucky people can do great scenery work right off the bat. Most people have to do things over several times before they get something that is good enough. Good enough is a reasonable standard for most things in model railroading.
Smile, Stein
Hi Stein, I think I can do the scenery part with no problems. I can build kits sans problems too. Ditto for wiring, cutting plywod and making legs for it, you name it I know I can do it BUT for one thins. That's understanding what all the terms mean, like staging, double track, points, frog, (I'm learning though) and other things. It's just as I indicated in a precious post that I don't see how you guys can look at his layout plan and infer so MUCH from it. I would need to know a lot more before I start on it. Things like what track, the locations of said track, the locations of the buildings etc.
I have several more books on order that people here have suggested so until they come in I'll just have to wait.
Can you or anyone else recommend a good book on real-world operations like WHAT they do with the trains, how staging is used, how sidings are used, how they actually do it in real life? Thanks.
Doughless Paul_in_GA Paulus Jas Thanks, this looks real nice but one problem, the bookcases are over six feet tall. Plus, the desk has been moved twice now and it's a HUGE pain to do. It is very heavy. Right now it abuts the closet door. So if in the drawing it was to be in that same position but slid back to the left that would be where it sits now, oh and it's 9" away from the wall for access to wires. Your plan looks really cool though. Right now I'm in information overload. Yes, I'm sure your head is spinning. When things calm down, go back to Paulus' plan and consider it as going a long ways towards being the layout for this room. It addresses many of the items you are interested in, and provides more, like staging (you can read about that elsewhere). Paulus is a steady contributor to this forum with his layout designs and they are usually spot on with what the modeler is looking for and the space provided. I would double track the bridge and make the layout completely double-tracked, just to have the ability to run two trains unattended if you wished. And Walthers sells a dandy doubletracked truss bridge (but don't order it yet!) Yes, the bookshelf idea won't work, but I see no reason why the current location of the desk would be a problem. In fact, its better that it is to the left. After a few years (I would guess) you could even be ambitious and enlarge the plan to incorporate more of the room, like Stein's second plan, and hook it into the existing layout. Its good to have a goal and a final vision. But what many are cautioning is to not to try to build it all at once. Practice with the staging yard first, or maybe one of the loops. Do something that allows you to run a train and familiarize yourself with the process of building, running, and maintaining a layout. BTW, to address something in another post, I am no DCC expert, but it is my understanding that the Bachmann 44tonner will run just fine on the same NCE powercab you will use for your U23B. Modelers complain about the Bachmann since its technology is rather simple compared to the digitrax/NCE stuff. So some of the fine tuning of the running qualities you can program into the U23B's decoder might not perform as well with the simple Bachmann. But for your circumstances, it should run just fine. A DCC knowledgeable person may want to confirm this.
Paul_in_GA Paulus Jas Thanks, this looks real nice but one problem, the bookcases are over six feet tall. Plus, the desk has been moved twice now and it's a HUGE pain to do. It is very heavy. Right now it abuts the closet door. So if in the drawing it was to be in that same position but slid back to the left that would be where it sits now, oh and it's 9" away from the wall for access to wires. Your plan looks really cool though. Right now I'm in information overload.
Paulus Jas
Thanks, this looks real nice but one problem, the bookcases are over six feet tall. Plus, the desk has been moved twice now and it's a HUGE pain to do. It is very heavy. Right now it abuts the closet door. So if in the drawing it was to be in that same position but slid back to the left that would be where it sits now, oh and it's 9" away from the wall for access to wires.
Your plan looks really cool though.
Right now I'm in information overload.
Yes, I'm sure your head is spinning. When things calm down, go back to Paulus' plan and consider it as going a long ways towards being the layout for this room. It addresses many of the items you are interested in, and provides more, like staging (you can read about that elsewhere).
Paulus is a steady contributor to this forum with his layout designs and they are usually spot on with what the modeler is looking for and the space provided. I would double track the bridge and make the layout completely double-tracked, just to have the ability to run two trains unattended if you wished. And Walthers sells a dandy doubletracked truss bridge (but don't order it yet!)
Yes, the bookshelf idea won't work, but I see no reason why the current location of the desk would be a problem. In fact, its better that it is to the left.
After a few years (I would guess) you could even be ambitious and enlarge the plan to incorporate more of the room, like Stein's second plan, and hook it into the existing layout.
Its good to have a goal and a final vision.
But what many are cautioning is to not to try to build it all at once. Practice with the staging yard first, or maybe one of the loops. Do something that allows you to run a train and familiarize yourself with the process of building, running, and maintaining a layout.
BTW, to address something in another post, I am no DCC expert, but it is my understanding that the Bachmann 44tonner will run just fine on the same NCE powercab you will use for your U23B. Modelers complain about the Bachmann since its technology is rather simple compared to the digitrax/NCE stuff. So some of the fine tuning of the running qualities you can program into the U23B's decoder might not perform as well with the simple Bachmann. But for your circumstances, it should run just fine.
A DCC knowledgeable person may want to confirm this.
Texas Zepher Darn that Mat Medium takes a long time to dry....
Darn that Mat Medium takes a long time to dry....
Ain't that the truth.
Alton Junction
Paul_in_GARight now I'm in information overload.
I am currently designing and building a layout for my father in the hospital. Even with a very simple plan and 40 years of layout experience I've run into some new challenges with it. I expected to finish it in 2 days. Now 2 weeks later I keep saying tomorrow. Darn that Mat Medium takes a long time to dry.... That is why many people suggested starting small and learning as you go.
Paulus Jas Hi, I've read your wishes and wanted to warn you. When going for a 22" minimum radius and you want to add a parellel track its radius will become 24,5" and it will never fit on an 8x4 table top. Without a second track at the outside passing sidings on a 8x4 will be way to short. When going for radii like the above the width of your layout will become about 5 feet, so access on at least three sides is needed. You could build your layout on casters, so it can be stored against a wall, a donut-footprint is an other option. This plan has 22" and 24,5" radii, it uses #6 turnouts on the mainline, so longer cars or coaches can be used without problems. Never the less i would try to find shorter coaches of about 10" length max. The outer track is partly further away from the inner track and elevated. Even a short tunnel is added, just as a road where some buildings alongside will be at home. A couple of spurs, connected to the main with #4 turnouts, could host all kind of industries beside the coal mine. Two spurs could be considered as an interchange. I would build this little layout at armpit heigth, so a lot of storage underneath is quite possible. Maybe even your bookcases will fit here. Talking about the coal mine, it introduces empties in loads out trafic. The coal could be brought to the staging yard or/and the interchange tracks. Between "formal" operating sessions the coal is brought back to the mine. Just like the empties, which will return to their starting point: the interchange or staging tracks. Paul
Hi,
I've read your wishes and wanted to warn you. When going for a 22" minimum radius and you want to add a parellel track its radius will become 24,5" and it will never fit on an 8x4 table top. Without a second track at the outside passing sidings on a 8x4 will be way to short.
When going for radii like the above the width of your layout will become about 5 feet, so access on at least three sides is needed. You could build your layout on casters, so it can be stored against a wall, a donut-footprint is an other option.
This plan has 22" and 24,5" radii, it uses #6 turnouts on the mainline, so longer cars or coaches can be used without problems. Never the less i would try to find shorter coaches of about 10" length max.
The outer track is partly further away from the inner track and elevated. Even a short tunnel is added, just as a road where some buildings alongside will be at home. A couple of spurs, connected to the main with #4 turnouts, could host all kind of industries beside the coal mine. Two spurs could be considered as an interchange.
I would build this little layout at armpit heigth, so a lot of storage underneath is quite possible. Maybe even your bookcases will fit here. Talking about the coal mine, it introduces empties in loads out trafic. The coal could be brought to the staging yard or/and the interchange tracks. Between "formal" operating sessions the coal is brought back to the mine. Just like the empties, which will return to their starting point: the interchange or staging tracks.
Paul
Texas Zepher This is starting to get good. I may have missed it (since you have two threads about this subject), but have you made a list of your "Givens and Druthers"? From what I can piece together (so this is most likely incorrect): Givens: Room is (approx) 14x14, and used as an office currently. There's a desk, some bookshelves, etc that need to be navigated around (and left accessible). Druthers: Era -- mid-late 1980s (based on the U23B; as one lettered for CSX wouldn't have been around til then)22" Min RadiusCoal CompanyOther small businesses that utilize tank cars, boxcars, hoppers and the 44-tonnerPassenger ServiceMountains or some other reason for elevation change of the track. And nothing says the list is in concrete. It can be tweeked and adjusted. Don't just use this one.
This is starting to get good. I may have missed it (since you have two threads about this subject), but have you made a list of your "Givens and Druthers"? From what I can piece together (so this is most likely incorrect): Givens: Room is (approx) 14x14, and used as an office currently. There's a desk, some bookshelves, etc that need to be navigated around (and left accessible). Druthers: Era -- mid-late 1980s (based on the U23B; as one lettered for CSX wouldn't have been around til then)22" Min RadiusCoal CompanyOther small businesses that utilize tank cars, boxcars, hoppers and the 44-tonnerPassenger ServiceMountains or some other reason for elevation change of the track.
From what I can piece together (so this is most likely incorrect):
Givens:
Room is (approx) 14x14, and used as an office currently. There's a desk, some bookshelves, etc that need to be navigated around (and left accessible).
Druthers:
Era -- mid-late 1980s (based on the U23B; as one lettered for CSX wouldn't have been around til then)22" Min RadiusCoal CompanyOther small businesses that utilize tank cars, boxcars, hoppers and the 44-tonnerPassenger ServiceMountains or some other reason for elevation change of the track.
Oh, absolutely! Guess I wasn't quite as clear as I should've been in my original post
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
NeO6874Paul_in_GAI guess my theme would be this. A coal company where I can haul coal, to where I have no idea. I'd like mountains and elevated railway on at least one part of it, lots of rock cliff faces with trees above, and a separate area with a station and a separate train that will carry passengers to a train station Kind of like two RR's in one. I have two locos so far. The CSX U23B and the small Bachman diesel 44 ton switcher. I'd have a street and houses and small businesses along the line. I like tanker cars, box cars, hoppers, and passenger cars. I don't know if they make small passenger cars becuase from what I read they need LARGE radius turns, unless someone makes smaller cars? I think that would be my foucus for what it's worth.
Paul_in_GAI guess my theme would be this. A coal company where I can haul coal, to where I have no idea. I'd like mountains and elevated railway on at least one part of it, lots of rock cliff faces with trees above, and a separate area with a station and a separate train that will carry passengers to a train station Kind of like two RR's in one. I have two locos so far. The CSX U23B and the small Bachman diesel 44 ton switcher. I'd have a street and houses and small businesses along the line. I like tanker cars, box cars, hoppers, and passenger cars. I don't know if they make small passenger cars becuase from what I read they need LARGE radius turns, unless someone makes smaller cars? I think that would be my foucus for what it's worth.
I'd have a street and houses and small businesses along the line. I like tanker cars, box cars, hoppers, and passenger cars. I don't know if they make small passenger cars becuase from what I read they need LARGE radius turns, unless someone makes smaller cars? I think that would be my foucus for what it's worth.
Paul_in_GA Hi Dan, yes, you are right, this is what I'd like to see but I will understand if I don't have the room. This hobby has a huge learning curve which I'm trying to negotiate right now. So much to learn and I have so many questions.
Hi Dan, yes, you are right, this is what I'd like to see but I will understand if I don't have the room. This hobby has a huge learning curve which I'm trying to negotiate right now. So much to learn and I have so many questions.
OK, now we're getting somewhere! Now, like I said this is my interpretation of what you've posted between this and the other thread. Sit down for ~20 minutes and come up with your list, and post it here for everyone to see. This'll really help people in helping direct you to the right resources, or in avoiding pitfalls on your plan.
NeO6874 Paul_in_GA I guess my theme would be this. A coal company where I can haul coal, to where I have no idea. I'd like mountains and elevated railway on at least one part of it, lots of rock cliff faces with trees above, and a separate area with a station and a separate train that will carry passengers to a train station Kind of like two RR's in one. I have two locos so far. The CSX U23B and the small Bachman diesel 44 ton switcher. Also, I read somewhere that Bachman DCC trains are a pain, is this true? If so then I can take it back to the store as I haven't even opened it yet. I'd have a street and houses and small businesses along the line. I like tanker cars, box cars, hoppers, and passenger cars. I don't know if they make small passenger cars becuase from what I read they need LARGE radius turns, unless someone makes smaller cars? I think that would be my foucus for what it's worth. And, thanks for your advice, I appreciate it and need it a LOT! OK Paul, This is starting to get good. I may have missed it (since you have two threads about this subject), but have you made a list of your "Givens and Druthers"? From what I can piece together (so this is most likely incorrect): Givens: Room is (approx) 14x14, and used as an office currently. There's a desk, some bookshelves, etc that need to be navigated around (and left accessible). Druthers: Era -- mid-late 1980s (based on the U23B; as one lettered for CSX wouldn't have been around til then)22" Min RadiusCoal CompanyOther small businesses that utilize tank cars, boxcars, hoppers and the 44-tonnerPassenger ServiceMountains or some other reason for elevation change of the track. Given this list, it'll be a lot easier for the people here to help you in nailing down a plan, or at least enough of a plan so that you can get started on your layout.
Paul_in_GA I guess my theme would be this. A coal company where I can haul coal, to where I have no idea. I'd like mountains and elevated railway on at least one part of it, lots of rock cliff faces with trees above, and a separate area with a station and a separate train that will carry passengers to a train station Kind of like two RR's in one. I have two locos so far. The CSX U23B and the small Bachman diesel 44 ton switcher. Also, I read somewhere that Bachman DCC trains are a pain, is this true? If so then I can take it back to the store as I haven't even opened it yet. I'd have a street and houses and small businesses along the line. I like tanker cars, box cars, hoppers, and passenger cars. I don't know if they make small passenger cars becuase from what I read they need LARGE radius turns, unless someone makes smaller cars? I think that would be my foucus for what it's worth. And, thanks for your advice, I appreciate it and need it a LOT!
I guess my theme would be this. A coal company where I can haul coal, to where I have no idea. I'd like mountains and elevated railway on at least one part of it, lots of rock cliff faces with trees above, and a separate area with a station and a separate train that will carry passengers to a train station Kind of like two RR's in one. I have two locos so far. The CSX U23B and the small Bachman diesel 44 ton switcher. Also, I read somewhere that Bachman DCC trains are a pain, is this true? If so then I can take it back to the store as I haven't even opened it yet.
I'd have a street and houses and small businesses along the line. I like tanker cars, box cars, hoppers, and passenger cars. I don't know if they make small passenger cars becuase from what I read they need LARGE radius turns, unless someone makes smaller cars? I think that would be my foucus for what it's worth. And, thanks for your advice, I appreciate it and need it a LOT!
OK Paul,
This is starting to get good. I may have missed it (since you have two threads about this subject), but have you made a list of your "Givens and Druthers"?
Given this list, it'll be a lot easier for the people here to help you in nailing down a plan, or at least enough of a plan so that you can get started on your layout.
fifedog I agree with CTValley. Since you are new, it's far more important to get those trains up and running. Once you have the trackwork down, and designed the way you like it, you can always "flesh-in" the scenery later. A clean sheet of new plywood to me is like a canvas just waiting for something promising to emerge.
I agree with CTValley. Since you are new, it's far more important to get those trains up and running. Once you have the trackwork down, and designed the way you like it, you can always "flesh-in" the scenery later. A clean sheet of new plywood to me is like a canvas just waiting for something promising to emerge.
Agreed.
When I started in the hobby, I constructed an 8' x 12' plywood table with two pop up holes so that I could reach the center of the layout. Laid track to form a double main line with crossovers and turnouts into spurs. Ran trains, experienced derailments, corrected track work, experienced frustrations, but overall had a ball.
At the same time, I used a 2' x 2' scrap piece of plywood with a piece of flex track nailed to it to experiment with ballasting and landscaping, ground cover, trees, bushes and a small pond.
I have said it before. You need to learn to crawl before you learn to walk, and you need to learn to walk before you can learn to run.
In the meantime, you can read books and that is helpful, but there is no better learning tool than hands on experience.
Rich
Paul_in_GA As for rushing out to buy things, you're right, I have a tendency to do that but if I think it'll help I'll buy it, especially if it's an item to help me learn. I can understand what you mean by COOL and WHAT to put in. I guess a coal mine would be nice with a train station on the other end. And maybe a business to deliver freigh to. As for billions of permutations, you're right. It is actually infinite I guess. I think if I move my desk (again), move it back further I can have a lot of room. I don't mind taking my time either, I just want it right. I plan on making little mock-ups and working my way up from there.
As for rushing out to buy things, you're right, I have a tendency to do that but if I think it'll help I'll buy it, especially if it's an item to help me learn.
I can understand what you mean by COOL and WHAT to put in. I guess a coal mine would be nice with a train station on the other end. And maybe a business to deliver freigh to. As for billions of permutations, you're right. It is actually infinite I guess.
I think if I move my desk (again), move it back further I can have a lot of room. I don't mind taking my time either, I just want it right.
I plan on making little mock-ups and working my way up from there.
Hello Paul,
I have read both of your threads and have to say you are moving along quickly, especially purchasing items that you might find useful.
I think now is a good time to focus your thoughts on what type of layout you want, and how specifically you will go about achieving that. Reading some of the publications you bought would be a good start.
Rich's idea of starting simple is a very good one, but there is no reason why those simple loops cannot have some type of focus or theme.
You are probably at the point where building some type of layout will be helpful. Stop and think a bit about what you want from a layout. Ask yourself some questions:
Why did you get into the hobby? Do you like locomotives, box cars, tanker cars. Do you like mountain or urban scenery. Do you live near or frequently drive by some train related area that you want to bring into your office layout.
At this point, everything you see in the hobby probably looks cool. But seriously try to think about the one or two things that really drew you into the hobby. If you focus your efforts from this point on towards satisfying that one or two major item(s), you won't be wasting time and money on things you ultimately might not care about as much.
In future posts or threads, try to tell us what those big "needs" and "if possibles" are (called givens and druthers in hobby terms) and you will find members to be even more helpful.
Edit: And you don't need to build anything for a while. Its more important to have your major theme thought about before you start cutting wood.
CTValleyRR Jaddie and Rich have great advice (and you may recall seeing it in one of my earlier posts as well). You've got a boy chomping at the bit for a layout, and you yourself have yet to hit on inspiration. So just get out there and throw some track down (but NOT on the floor). Use a simple loop or double loop, and throw in a couple of sidings. Don't mess with elevation changes at first, because they can cause all kinds of headaches. There's nothing wrong with a simple sheet of plywood to start. Then let it expand organically. You can either plan expansions, or just build them. But this will help you focus on what you want, what you like, and what doesn't thrill you so much. And it doesn't HAVE to go around in a circle either, although that would probably appeal to your son.
Jaddie and Rich have great advice (and you may recall seeing it in one of my earlier posts as well). You've got a boy chomping at the bit for a layout, and you yourself have yet to hit on inspiration.
So just get out there and throw some track down (but NOT on the floor). Use a simple loop or double loop, and throw in a couple of sidings. Don't mess with elevation changes at first, because they can cause all kinds of headaches. There's nothing wrong with a simple sheet of plywood to start.
Then let it expand organically. You can either plan expansions, or just build them. But this will help you focus on what you want, what you like, and what doesn't thrill you so much. And it doesn't HAVE to go around in a circle either, although that would probably appeal to your son.
Well, I have some track on order. I will have to buy the plywood but I have no idea how to get it from the store to my house as I don't have a pickup or know anyone who does. I watched the WS DVD and although he makes it LOOK east it really isn't. It isn't because you have to think WAY ahead.
My BIGGEST problem is I've been too trained all my life with my job and woodworking with working off highly detailed plans where every single last detail is measured and laid out. This is like flying by the seat of your pants which I'm not so good at. I know somewhat what I want but I need to make a detailed, a VERY detailed step-by-step plan of every step.
As for my son, well, he's 14, I'm divorced and I see him every other weekend so he's really just ambilevent about it all. He's more than willing to help me but it isn't his cup of tea. He'd rather play computer games.
As for myself, I really want to learn all this stuff so it's a long process. I don't mind waiting a little longer while I obtain all the stuff I need it's just I need detailed knowledge.
What I usually do is jump into something and learn everything I can about it from books, magazines, the Internet, and forums like this. Especially forums like this.
So after watching that DVD I now realize I have a long way to go. I just want to do this right. I can see people telling me to do a small layout and I plan on doing just that now but I also don't want to waste a lot of money building multiple layouts. That's why I have several of the WS learning kits on the way.
When it comes to things like this I have more skill than artistic talent. There's the rub.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Jaddie Dear Paul, My Fellow Georgian Howdy. I'm over here in Buford next to the Mall of Georgia. I'm in a similar situation as you but with a different skill set. I've never wired anything before. My now-four-year-old son's insatiable thirst for all things trains got me into this. I'm still not interested in it personally, but I love doing stuff for him. I use a Mac so I bought RailModeller to design some plans. I've created more than 400 files with the program and ended up "punting" by settling for a double-oval with a single crossover on a used ping-pong table (5 x 9). It has a three-percent incline that never reaches its full height, and there are going to be a mountain with a tunnel, small yard, and one or two sidings inside the ovals. The layouts radii are about 27" around the outside loop and around 24" on the inside. I had put off getting my hands dirty for about eighteen months and decided to just get busy and learn the best way most of us can--by experience. That's not my favorite way, but sitting here on the sofa with a computer wasn't getting much done. If my son enjoys running his trains on this little layout, then I'll do my best to figure out how to build benchwork and build him a nicer layout. You definitely found the right forum. There's so much knowledge and skill here, and the folks are eager to help. Last night I glued down the cork roadbed around the two ovals on our layout. Today I'm back on the sofa with the computer to decide on the rest of the layout. Here's what Max's humble layout looked like last night: And here's my latest track plan: I'll probably start soldering and laying flex track tomorrow (using just track nails to hold the track down temporarily). I plan to put down the cork roadbed for the switches and yard as I come to those. Then I plan to test, test, and test for derailments and uncouplings. I've enlisted my father-in-law's help to do the wiring and tortoise installation. He's sixty-five years old and has just one eye, but wiring is second nature for him, just like it is for you. May we learn a lot, have some fun along the way, and produce some nice model railroads. Sincerely, Jaddie
Dear Paul, My Fellow Georgian
Howdy. I'm over here in Buford next to the Mall of Georgia. I'm in a similar situation as you but with a different skill set. I've never wired anything before.
My now-four-year-old son's insatiable thirst for all things trains got me into this. I'm still not interested in it personally, but I love doing stuff for him.
I use a Mac so I bought RailModeller to design some plans. I've created more than 400 files with the program and ended up "punting" by settling for a double-oval with a single crossover on a used ping-pong table (5 x 9). It has a three-percent incline that never reaches its full height, and there are going to be a mountain with a tunnel, small yard, and one or two sidings inside the ovals. The layouts radii are about 27" around the outside loop and around 24" on the inside.
I had put off getting my hands dirty for about eighteen months and decided to just get busy and learn the best way most of us can--by experience. That's not my favorite way, but sitting here on the sofa with a computer wasn't getting much done.
If my son enjoys running his trains on this little layout, then I'll do my best to figure out how to build benchwork and build him a nicer layout.
You definitely found the right forum. There's so much knowledge and skill here, and the folks are eager to help.
Last night I glued down the cork roadbed around the two ovals on our layout. Today I'm back on the sofa with the computer to decide on the rest of the layout.
Here's what Max's humble layout looked like last night:
And here's my latest track plan:
I'll probably start soldering and laying flex track tomorrow (using just track nails to hold the track down temporarily). I plan to put down the cork roadbed for the switches and yard as I come to those. Then I plan to test, test, and test for derailments and uncouplings. I've enlisted my father-in-law's help to do the wiring and tortoise installation. He's sixty-five years old and has just one eye, but wiring is second nature for him, just like it is for you.
May we learn a lot, have some fun along the way, and produce some nice model railroads.
Sincerely,
Jaddie
Hi Jaddie,
Awesome! I like your layout. If you ever need electrical help lemme know. You can PM me if you ever want to talk on the phone or get together. I live in Douglasville.
No elevations, just flat. The crossovers are each made up of a pair of matching turnouts. Two right hand turnouts, two left hand turnouts.
It is pretty basic, pretty simple, but it can be fun to operate. Plus, you can expand it by adding more turnouts for spurs and sidings, landscape it, ballast it, add some structures.
If you limit yourself to a 4' x 8' table, then there won't be any straight track on the ends, just 22" radius curves. But you will have some room for straight track and crossovers on the sides.
richhotrain Paul_in_GA richhotrain Build a double mainline with two crossovers on a 4' x 8' table. Thanks Rich, ok, how? Any examples? Just like this.
Paul_in_GA richhotrain Build a double mainline with two crossovers on a 4' x 8' table. Thanks Rich, ok, how? Any examples?
richhotrain Build a double mainline with two crossovers on a 4' x 8' table.
Build a double mainline with two crossovers on a 4' x 8' table.
Thanks Rich, ok, how? Any examples?
Just like this.
Ok, that looks doable but remember I'm still learning terms too. Is any part of it elevated? What tracks do I use at the crossover locations? Please go easy on me, I'm a greenhorn.
richhotrain Build a double mainline with two crossovers on a 4' x 8' table. Get some experience track laying and running trains. Keep it simple and get going - - - right now. Rich
Get some experience track laying and running trains.
Keep it simple and get going - - - right now.
CTValleyRR richhotrain You can also purchase metal track alignment guides such as the Ribbonrail curved track alignment guide. Yoy place the alignment guide between the rails of a section of flex track to form the exact radius. Here is a link to the 22" radius alignment guide. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/170-1022 Rich Be careful showing Paul anything he can buy.... it will be his next purchase! Seriously, though, Paul -- Stein's drawings are to scale, yours isn't. I wasn't commenting on your actual measurements (30" is a common size for windows and doors in the US), but on the fact that distances marked as 30" were usually smaller than ones marked 2' 3" (27"), and that your 14' 6" x 14' (or is that 13" 11?) was noticeably rectangular, rather than being almost square. The reason you're having trouble with the design is that you're not focused. You say you don't want a prototypical railroad with specific operations, just a couple of features and things that look "cool". There are so many billions of permutations of this statement that no human brain could possibly deal with it. Selecting a railroad, a location, and an era helps people visualize what things SHOULD look like, and what types of cars and industries should be there. It's ok if you don't want to represent a specific road and place -- your fantasy road can have little vignettes -- a city that looks like London, an American SW desert, African savannah, Northern Rockies or Swiss Alps. It's your layout, after all. The root of the issue is the concept of "cool". What is cool to me may not be cool to you. You may be willing to put up with all kinds of operating headaches in order to incorporate a cool concept. I'm not. Those of us who have helped others with designs can shoehorn a lot of things into the same space limitations. But we need to know WHAT to put in. The bottom line is that folks like Stein (who is a saint and will patiently throw design after design out there) can keep giving you proposals until finally, by trial and error, will find something you like. A better option would be for you to visit some layouts and take pictures of things you find cool that you'd like on your own layout, or to find pictures of them somewhere else (even of real railroads). Then old curmudgeons like me will try to help you get those into your space constraints.
richhotrain You can also purchase metal track alignment guides such as the Ribbonrail curved track alignment guide. Yoy place the alignment guide between the rails of a section of flex track to form the exact radius. Here is a link to the 22" radius alignment guide. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/170-1022 Rich
You can also purchase metal track alignment guides such as the Ribbonrail curved track alignment guide.
Yoy place the alignment guide between the rails of a section of flex track to form the exact radius.
Here is a link to the 22" radius alignment guide.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/170-1022
Be careful showing Paul anything he can buy.... it will be his next purchase!
Seriously, though, Paul -- Stein's drawings are to scale, yours isn't. I wasn't commenting on your actual measurements (30" is a common size for windows and doors in the US), but on the fact that distances marked as 30" were usually smaller than ones marked 2' 3" (27"), and that your 14' 6" x 14' (or is that 13" 11?) was noticeably rectangular, rather than being almost square.
The reason you're having trouble with the design is that you're not focused. You say you don't want a prototypical railroad with specific operations, just a couple of features and things that look "cool". There are so many billions of permutations of this statement that no human brain could possibly deal with it. Selecting a railroad, a location, and an era helps people visualize what things SHOULD look like, and what types of cars and industries should be there. It's ok if you don't want to represent a specific road and place -- your fantasy road can have little vignettes -- a city that looks like London, an American SW desert, African savannah, Northern Rockies or Swiss Alps. It's your layout, after all.
The root of the issue is the concept of "cool". What is cool to me may not be cool to you. You may be willing to put up with all kinds of operating headaches in order to incorporate a cool concept. I'm not.
Those of us who have helped others with designs can shoehorn a lot of things into the same space limitations. But we need to know WHAT to put in. The bottom line is that folks like Stein (who is a saint and will patiently throw design after design out there) can keep giving you proposals until finally, by trial and error, will find something you like. A better option would be for you to visit some layouts and take pictures of things you find cool that you'd like on your own layout, or to find pictures of them somewhere else (even of real railroads). Then old curmudgeons like me will try to help you get those into your space constraints.
I guess my drawings were the best I could do with the limited software program I use. I mean i had a tape mesaure and measured exactly what I put down. The graph paper may have been a little off but not by much.
As for Stein, he is a great help, he has NO idea how MUCH I appreciate his help. I'm learning a lot from you guys though.
If anyone needs more photos or more exact measurements I'd be glad to provide them.