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18"x36" Layout

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 4, 2011 8:47 PM

steinjr

 Steven Otte:

Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack.

 

 I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout:

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/forum2/36-turntable.jpg

 

 Smile,
 Stein

 C'mon guys, you've got to be joking.  My grandkids would get bored with that in two minutes.

The OP would be better off with a 16" x 34" oval in Z-scale.

Maybe something like a switch back with crossovers at either end in N-scale.

But a turntable and three 22" tracks in HO scale?

 Rich

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Posted by steinjr on Friday, November 4, 2011 6:15 PM

Steven Otte

Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack.

 I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout:

 

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

 

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Posted by mwcohio on Friday, November 4, 2011 5:05 PM

Arvanlaa,You are my new inspiration. When I read your post asking for advice on a dresser top layout I looked around at my own layout and realized how fortunate I am to have an entire room in my basement to work with. As I looked over my layout, I saw how much space is just wasted. I am now commited to using every available inch of my layout and not forgetting how lucky I am! I trully hope that you are getting some great advice that will give you a layout you are proud of! Thanks for opening my eyes!  

                                                                                                                                                Mark.

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Posted by arvanlaa on Friday, November 4, 2011 1:43 PM

Steve that sounds pretty fantastic! I am making a Single bay engine house from Pikestuff right now, but I am sure I can adapt the track plan and use the second track as a junk gondola spur or something.

Steven Otte

Since operations on this layout would support only locomotives, not cars, you'd only need a staging/switch lead cassette of one track 2' long or less. Very workable, and a lot of possibilities for a great superdetailed scene.

I'm of a mind to work up some large-industry layouts too, but something tells me they wouldn't have as much operating potential.

When you say lead cassette, are you talking about that lead extension that we were considering that I could store vertically? The 'cassette' part threw me off. I don't know too much MRR lingo Embarrassed

I would love to see that engine facility layout that you did and anything else too! A small, super detailed scene would be perfect to use! If you manage to create something for a large industry too (or even a couple medium/small  industries that only need 1 or 2 cars to fill their needs, I am game for that too :)

Thanks Steve!

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Posted by Steven Otte on Friday, November 4, 2011 9:18 AM

Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack. Since operations on this layout would support only locomotives, not cars, you'd only need a staging/switch lead cassette of one track 2' long or less. Very workable, and a lot of possibilities for a great superdetailed scene.

I'm of a mind to work up some large-industry layouts too, but something tells me they wouldn't have as much operating potential.

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Posted by steinjr on Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:13 PM

fwright

Carl Arendt's micro-layout site (http://carendt.us/) has numerous plans that would fit into a 3-4ft length, sometimes less.  The site is still up, although no new content has been added since Carl's death last March.

 The first new update on Carl's page after Carl's death was posted on November 1st 2011, thanks to a volunteers who stepped in to help maintain the site in Carl's memory: http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page107/

 Updated index for the website: http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/linkindex/index.html

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by fwright on Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:07 PM

The 2003 issue of Model Railroad Planning was all about shelf layouts, and several of them were supposed to fit in a 3ft length.  The one I liked was a shadow box plan by Iain Rice that folded up into 3ft, but was 6ft when in operation.

Carl Arendt's micro-layout site (http://carendt.us/) has numerous plans that would fit into a 3-4ft length, sometimes less.  The site is still up, although no new content has been added since Carl's death last March.  Two of my favorites from his site are Wye River City - 3ft plus 1ft cassette/switching lead - and Mower Lumber Company - 4ft x 9".  I will be building adaptations of both as part of my HO/HOn3 shelf layout on parts of 3 walls in the spare bedroom.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

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Posted by steinjr on Thursday, November 3, 2011 4:19 PM

 Btw - another resource for lots of small switching plans (in H0 or OO scale) - have a look at the track plans by Hugh Flynn (and "Shortliner" Jack Trollope) on the old (not longer being posted to) rmweb forum - see e.g. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472

 Don't recall any track plans being 3 feet long, but the plans show a lot of interesting ideas for small layouts.

The current RMweb forums can be found here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by hysantafe on Thursday, November 3, 2011 1:41 PM

arvanlaa

Hey Steve, do you knwo of any free layout design program I can use on the web or download for free? I really don't want to pay since mine is so small, however I would like to get my ideas down.

 

There is a free program availabe that is still in the developement stage called SCARM (Simple Computer Aided Railway Modeller). http://www.scarm.info  

Easy program to learn plus has the ability to view in 3D.

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Posted by steinjr on Thursday, November 3, 2011 1:01 PM

arvanlaa

What if i am adding a 4 foot section of lead track that can start turnouts off the actual 18"x36" dresser area? 

 4 feet of switching lead for a 3 foot layout is way too much - you won't be able to use all that extra length in a sensible way. But if you can add an 18-24" switching lead, then you can use that.

 If you have gotten you web browser fixed, look at those 4 1/2foot  track plans  I posted. They all allow quite a bit of switching - including the one with just had a single (removable) lead track added. 

 If you haven't gotten your browser fixed, then fix it :-)

 Smile,
 Stein 

 

 

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Posted by arvanlaa on Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:23 PM

Thanks a ton for your suggestions ajkochev!

I'm decently good at picking up new software so I'll give your suggestion a go :)

What if i am adding a 4 foot section of lead track that can start turnouts off the actual 18"x36" dresser area? What I am begging to think is to have it on top of my desk to store, then take it off and oeprate it in a common room like the living room or basement. I know I am going to have sever restriction in operating. I have accepted this and I think I am fine with it right now. I just want a mix between diorama where I can practice my scenery skills and a semi operating layout just so I can learn how to wire, install track ect (which I have no experience in whatsoever so its important to start learning).

I really want to stick with the HO. I do not plan on being in this room long since I'll be out in a short time frame hopefully. Then I can build a bigger layout and add my 18"x36" section to it. If I switch to N, I will need to buy all new equipment and buildings and as a poor university student, you can understand my budget constraints :P

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Posted by ajkochev on Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:08 PM

There is also a program called XtrakCAD.  that is free.  Do a search in google and you should find it,  it has a somewhat steep learning curve but is more powerful over RightTrack IMO.  

I've been following this thread for awhile because I love small layouts.  If you really are set on using HO then this layout is going to be severly limited.  I tried the Righttrack software and using the code 100 track which offers the smallest turnouts in this space.  I tried several different approaches but could not really make anything that would operate well in this space.  Even just one small turnout in the center of this space looks like it makes all the connecting tracks to short for even one car and a small switcher to clear the points.

Since I don't model in HO I don't know how small a switcher loco is now a days so maybe it is possible due to my limited knowledge.

Here are some options:

1. Build this as a diorama.  Operation really isn't possible in this space on HO.  Learn to build, scenic and detail on the layout for when you have more space.

2. You mentioned this is on a dresser.  Can the dresser be moved so that there is an extra 6 inches on both ends?  Adding an extra 12 inches and having 6 inches overhang both sides makes a big difference.  The extra track will hold a small switcher loco and one car and make operating possible.

You could maybe do something with sector plates or traversers hidden inside structures(see the Carl Ardent site mentioned) to get out of the space needed for turnouts, but it still would be very limited.

3.  Honestly, making the switch from HO to N is the best option and choice you can make if you really are stuck with the size mentioned and what to operate a layout in the end.  As a modeler who had to move from HO to N for space reasons I know the feeling but I can tell you, if you really want something you can operate, you will be more satisfied with N in this space.  

 

 

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Posted by Steven Otte on Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:40 AM

I have no idea what you're talking about. Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by arvanlaa on Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:34 AM

Awesome thanks Steve! even if the atlas is for their own products, I just want to get the idea of how it'll be laid out, doesn't have to be exact at all.

And look at you Mr. Cheeky Associate Editor! Advising me to screenshot! FOR SHAME!

 

 

 

 

I'll do it though Wink haha!

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Posted by Steven Otte on Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:20 AM

Atlas distributes a program called Right Track that's free. It's made for designing layouts with Atlas track though, so if you're planning on using another brand, it will be only of general use to you. You can get it from http://www.atlasrr.com/righttrack.htm .

Most of the commercial track plan software makers offer limited versions of their programs for free. The demo versions might be full-featured, but don't let you save or print; others are limited to the number of components you can use; etc. Check out http://trackplanning.com/download.htm , http://www.anyrail.com/download_en.html and http://sandiasoftware.com/demo9.htm .

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Posted by arvanlaa on Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:08 AM

Hey Steve, do you knwo of any free layout design program I can use on the web or download for free? I really don't want to pay since mine is so small, however I would like to get my ideas down.

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Posted by Steven Otte on Thursday, November 3, 2011 10:30 AM

Hey, be careful! I have an excuse to be on the MR forums at work! Laugh

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Posted by arvanlaa on Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:34 AM

PS... sorry for my atrocious spelling. I am at work and my computer doesn't ahve spell check for the web and I'm typing REALLY fast so I don't get caught lol!

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Posted by arvanlaa on Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:32 AM

Steve you nailed it on the head! Yes, I do want to practise my scenery skills and try different methods so once I can build a decent layout, it will be a masterpiece! :P And to knwo that Tony's amazing layout started that small... well now im inspired!

richhotrain

LOL

Here is my final suggestion.  How about a layout on pulleys raised to the ceiling when not in use?  LOL

Rich

Believe it or not Rich, a couple years ago, my dad and I actually thought of doing that! We dreamed a bit bigge and wanted hydraulics but my mom had to be a killjoy and so we scrapped our dream of a floating layout in the sky haha!

But ya, liek I said to steve, I do want to practise my scenery makign skills on this mini layout. True there will be minimal track, but hey... I'll take it over nothing just so I can get my feet wet in the actual hands on work :)

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:15 AM

LOL

Here is my final suggestion.  How about a layout on pulleys raised to the ceiling when not in use?  LOL

Seriously, though, if you are that hard pressed for room, I think you should stick to drawing plans for future layouts when you have the space instead of frustrating yourself trying to build a layout on an 18" x 36" dresser top.  The power supply alone will take up 5 percent of the available space.  Add a structure or two and you pretty much run out of room to do anything with track.

Rich

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Posted by Steven Otte on Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:10 AM

I also get the feeling you'll be happier with something you can scenic, however small it might be. Pick a single scene that you can integrate into a full layout later and go for it. John Allen's legendary Gorre & Daphetid started out as a 43" x 68" HO tabletop.

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Posted by arvanlaa on Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:01 AM

richhotrain

Heck, you can dissemble the track and stick it in a drawer.

Rich

Rich, I have literally looked at ALL storage options... even drawers lol. My room is just stuffed with so much stuff that I need for through the year . Can't under my bed because theres baseboards, drawers are out, closet is tiny and packed with clothes and boxes of modelling stuff, desk is my work station full of school work and modelling area and the shelf on my desk has my sound system. I can't do a layout on the wall because the walls are in horrendous condition and I was almost killed by a Maple bookshelf falling on my pilliow just seconds after I woke up. The only place is on top of that dresser and the little corner where my desk is that I can stand up a staging lead as Steve suggested.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:46 AM

arvanlaa

Thanks guys for all your continued input!

Steve, I am REALLY looking forward to that issue now to see what you guys did and thank you for all the advice on the lead extension.

 richhotrain:

I am going to take a contrarian view on this issue and urge the OP to drop the idea of an 18" x 36" dresser top layout.

If I were in this situation, I would be thinking about something more portable that can be taken out, assembled, and then taken down and put away each time you are done. 

 

Rich, I would LOVE to be able to do that, but I simply have no space whatsoever to store this layout... hence why its going on the dresser. I live in a TINY house and the only place I can store my own things is my bedroom. The only other place I could thin kof to store things is the rafters in the basement (on top of the 2x4 support beams) but the margin for error is so tiny that a little mistep could damage any scenery I have built.

Thank you though for your advice :) I'm taking everything in and I've been doodling and scheming at work trying to figure somethign out :)

 

Heck, you can dissemble the track and stick it in a drawer.

Rich

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Posted by arvanlaa on Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:41 AM

Thanks guys for all your continued input!

Steve, I am REALLY looking forward to that issue now to see what you guys did and thank you for all the advice on the lead extension.

richhotrain

I am going to take a contrarian view on this issue and urge the OP to drop the idea of an 18" x 36" dresser top layout.

If I were in this situation, I would be thinking about something more portable that can be taken out, assembled, and then taken down and put away each time you are done. 

Rich, I would LOVE to be able to do that, but I simply have no space whatsoever to store this layout... hence why its going on the dresser. I live in a TINY house and the only place I can store my own things is my bedroom. The only other place I could thin kof to store things is the rafters in the basement (on top of the 2x4 support beams) but the margin for error is so tiny that a little mistep could damage any scenery I have built.

Thank you though for your advice :) I'm taking everything in and I've been doodling and scheming at work trying to figure somethign out :)

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:55 AM

arvanlaa

I model in HO and have an extremely tiny area to create a layout in. The size is 18"x36" with the possibility of very modest increases, however I am not getting my hops up too much. 

What I am asking is this.... if you were a young university student who lives in a tiny house and the only space you had to create your layout was a 18"x36" space on top of your dresser, what would you do? 

I am going to take a contrarian view on this issue and urge the OP to drop the idea of an 18" x 36" dresser top layout.

If I were in this situation, I would be thinking about something more portable that can be taken out, assembled, and then taken down and put away each time you are done. 

Consider something like Kato HO Scale Uni Track.  Build a layout on the floor or on top of your bed.  Move the structures on top of your dresser while you put the layout up and take it down.

An 18" x 36" layout is too hopelessly small to do much of anything.  You would be better off just building a diorama on top of your dresser.

Rich

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Posted by BerkshireSteam on Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:20 AM

I'm looking at the coffee table I built about 12 years ago in high school shop class, and it just happens to fit those exact dimensions. Unless you are going for a diorama, I think you might be in the wrong scale. Check out last months issue of Model Railroader, Steven Otte (did I get that wrong?) features his small N scale Southern layout. Its made to sit on the kitchen table to run, and tuck under the bed when not. Its 36 x 54 inches. Great little layout I think.

Other HO ideas, build a small engine facility. Your engine house, maybe a freight house, engine storage track, service track to receive cars of sand and gondolas of coal. Or model part of large industry, like maybe the rolling mill of a steel mill. Small water front dock side scene with a wharf for unloading ships to rail and a large warehouse flat. Maybe very small car float operations. An iron ore dock. Just gota look around and use your head.

 

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Posted by ClinchValleySD40 on Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:18 AM

Be sure to check out

http://www.carendt.com/index.html

 

 

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Posted by Steven Otte on Wednesday, November 2, 2011 4:08 PM

Forgot to mention, you'll want to use some method, like a hinged triangular gusset, removable brace, or sliding bolt, to keep the support leg from folding up on you when the staging section is in use. Big Smile

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Posted by Steven Otte on Wednesday, November 2, 2011 4:05 PM

arvanlaa

Thats a great idea Steve :) I think you are right about having one large industry or a engine service terminal for the mini layout. In terms of creating a lead of maybe 1 or 2 tracks, could that be stored standing vertically? I have a small opening in the corner where my desk is where i could stand a lead section of track. I'm wonderign about the wiring and if it can be sotred vertical (I have absolutly NO IDEA about wiring at all hence why I ask this question).

And if I create this lead track and have it as a removable section, im going to make it as thing as possible so between 4-6". How could I have this lead section supprted? You can't really have legs on it because it is so narrow. Any ideas on how to keep this lead decently strudy once I connect it to the "larger" layout section?

Sure, you can store a removable staging/switch lead section vertically. Since there won't be any scenery on it, no problem. And as long as you attach the wiring securely to the base (with staples or clips) it won't be bothered by the handling.

Starting with the January issue, we're running a series of articles about building our latest project layout. I don't want to give away too much before the issue comes out, but it does include a temporary three-track staging yard, 8' long by about 6" wide. It uses metal pins that go into sockets on the main layout to align one end, and the other end is supported by a fold-away leg with one caster. Since you really only need one or two short tracks, yours need not be even that big, so you can easily stand it in a corner or a closet. Base it on a 4-foot length of nice straight 1x4, framed in with Masonite for rigidity and anti-derailment safety, and attach a single 2x2 leg with a hinge. That should be wide enough for a turnout and two 3-foot long tracks in HO scale. Attach the other end to the module with a hinge with a removable pin, to keep things securely aligned so you don't need rail joiners. Use "banana plugs" (available at Radio Shack) to attach the staging section's wiring to the main layout's power bus.

Down the road, you'll attach your module to your future permanent layout via the same track that used to be attached to this staging cassette, so you can use the staging cassette elsewhere on your new layout, in a more permanent position.

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Posted by cowman on Wednesday, November 2, 2011 12:54 PM

Yes, you can store a layout by standing it on end.  HOWEVER, you will have to make sure all your scenic elements are either well attached or easily removeable for storage.

For attaching a building, a foam block just the size to fit inside, then a couple of dabs of latex caulk to  hold it in place.  For removeable ones, just set the building over the block of foam, remove when putting the layout away.  You can also use a corner pin in each corner of a building to have it removeable.  Short pieces of styrene or wood should do the trick.  Probably even four nails would work to keep it lined up where you want it.

Good luck,

Richard

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