For transfer tables construction, here is a good link: http://carendt.morphoist.com/articles/FAQs/traversers.html. Here is another on the site (on the bottom of the page) http://carendt.morphoist.com/scrapbook/page26/index.html.
I am actually planning to build one myself for my 12"x 36" layout I am planning right now. I am making a condensed engine shop facility and really don't have room for any turnouts.
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com
Ah OK. Thank you for clearing that up for me Paul. Much appreciated
hi,
British trains are smaller then continental trains, so the difference in scale is making the difference in size hardy notice-able.
Paul
Oh so OO is the same track size for HO but I am assuming the trains are... larger? Smaller?
So I can build those traversers myself? Have you built one yourself or if not, could you point me to a site or forum that has a thread for that? If you don't I can check out that British modelling forum, since it seems to have A TON of stuff pertaining to tiny layouts. Thanks for hooking me up again :)
Just a quick answer.
OO gauge is only used in Britain. It is 1/76 scale, running on regular HO track. As British trains have a lower clearance than continental European ones, the slightly bigger scale is hardly noticeable.
Those traversers in the drawing are not expensive, electrically powered transfer tables, but simple sliding tables you can build yourself.
There are a number of railway modeling forums in Great Britain, where you can find tons of inspiration for your own design.
Very interesting Madog... I like the idea except the space I have to store lead track or fiddle yards is very narrow and can only hold a 6" wide section. Perhaps I can make it so that that 6" section, which can have 2 tracks lets say, can be made to slide or change to the top end or bottom end of sceniced portion of the track (I'm not sure what you would call that sorry) sort of like how a transfer table would work. I don't think I can afford a transfer table seeing as they are $350, but would something along those lines work? Also, what is OO scale?
Svein. I will have a rough drawing for you in the next couple days. Kinda fighting the flu at the moment so when I get home I crash and go to sleep right away.
I saw this Inglenook setup that I really liked. The track that is coming off the first turnout heading north could be where I place my engine house and the other three tracks can be a small yard. What do you think? My area isnt 48" in length like the one shown, but it is wider and my lead extension can help it out as well.
Just as food for thought and to show what can be done in small spaces:
Both the left and the right fiddle yards can be detached - plenty of operation!
Narrow spaces require a lot of thinking outside the box!
As I said before, the Brits are the world´s champions in building small, but interesting layouts. I can only recommend to take a look at what the cousins over the Big Pond are doing.
Here is a link to a British railway modeling forum, which should offer tons of ideas for your small layout:
RMweb
Many of the designs should be easily adapted to follow US prototype.
Content removed due to a completely frak'ed up and incompetent Kalmbach customer service.
First off I'd like to thank Stein for the grammar and language corrections . You're right though I wasn't thinking when I wront what I did haha!
So needless to say I am going to take a picture of the room area that I have to work with and try to post it in the next few days (I don't have internet at my hosue at the moment so I have to really on free WIFI elsewhere) so you can see what I am working with.
With the layout hanging down on the sides, you guys are right where I could have it hinged to stand up vertically instead of hanging down. It would just be a matter of not having tall scenery where the two ends meet at 90 degrees.
I've been looking at those Inglenook setups and they have some potential I think. I know they are in N scale, but I have an extra 6" in width and with a 6"x24"lead, I could create something similar to them.
Your layout can be a scene of an industrial area. Industries along both sides of the 36inches where goods are transfered from one side to the other. Pehaps some ramps in the middle and a freight office.
LOTS of details in the scene/layout. Lots of figures working on loading and unloading. Lots of lights etc. Maybe a double slip double throw switch too to add to the track mix.
Think verticle with the buildings. You can make up for lack of length with height.
With some good switching and lots of detail you will be more than occupied for some time to come.
Hi guys,
Looks like my input was not well regarded and I bow to the majority. I was under the impression the OP was in a temporary situation, and his efforts would be more satisfying with building models or the like.
Guess I was wrong, but that's not the first time - and likely not the last. I do wish the OP the very best in his endeavors and look forward to seeing the results!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
lone geep That vertical table that you saw in the catalog is called a transfer table. The round tables are called turntables and no, most modern railroads don't use them anymore. Those went out when steam left the railroading scene.
That vertical table that you saw in the catalog is called a transfer table. The round tables are called turntables and no, most modern railroads don't use them anymore. Those went out when steam left the railroading scene.
Some railroads still use their surviving turntables to turn diesels.
Rich
Alton Junction
arvanlaa I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas.
I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas.
A photo of the room might help at this point.
steinjr arvanlaa: Richo, your idea of a hinge hanging off the side of the dresser is REALLY interesting. The only problem I have is that this dresser is in the most awkward spot ever and there is about all of 1" of space between it and my bed. I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas. I could maybe hang down say a 12" maybe 18" hinged piece off the side that is not decorated but it would have to lie almost flush with the dresser side and that could prove challenging due to wiring and turnout mechanisms. Or am I wrong? Not quite sure what you are asking here. But a hinged section might as well be folded up as down, if having it fold down is a problem. Just make sure you have some simple way of locking it in the upright position, so it won't bonk you in the head as you are getting out of bed in the morning :-)
arvanlaa:
Richo, your idea of a hinge hanging off the side of the dresser is REALLY interesting. The only problem I have is that this dresser is in the most awkward spot ever and there is about all of 1" of space between it and my bed. I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas. I could maybe hang down say a 12" maybe 18" hinged piece off the side that is not decorated but it would have to lie almost flush with the dresser side and that could prove challenging due to wiring and turnout mechanisms. Or am I wrong?
Not quite sure what you are asking here. But a hinged section might as well be folded up as down, if having it fold down is a problem. Just make sure you have some simple way of locking it in the upright position, so it won't bonk you in the head as you are getting out of bed in the morning :-)
Stein, you took the words right out of my mouth. If you cannot hinge the two sides down, then hinge them up.
Something's got to work here unless the OP lives in a box. LOL
arvanlaa First, as I've said before, I am not switching from HO. I know I know, I've robbed you of a convert but I simply have no desire to operate in a smaller scale. Yes operations on this layout will be pretty sparse
First, as I've said before, I am not switching from HO. I know I know, I've robbed you of a convert but I simply have no desire to operate in a smaller scale. Yes operations on this layout will be pretty sparse
"Sparse" means "not dense"/"widely spaced", The word you are looking for is "limited". Yes - operations (i.e the purposeful movement of trains and railroad cars) on a small layout will by necessity be fairly limited.
arvanlaa modern railroads don't use round tables anymore do they for engine houses? I saw a product in a Walther's catalog that is for switching onto different tracks but it runs vertically, not in a circle.
modern railroads don't use round tables anymore do they for engine houses? I saw a product in a Walther's catalog that is for switching onto different tracks but it runs vertically, not in a circle.
You mean "horizontally" - sideways. "Vertically" is like an elevator - up and down :-)
What you are describing is called a transfer table. Was mostly used in repair shops, or in places that built locomotives - so you could take a locomotive e.g. from bay 10 of the building to the exit track at the end of the transfer table.
The Walthers transfer table is about 15 x 15" (i.e one third of your total space) and costs something like $350. It would probably be smarter with a small table to have the transfer table outside the modeled part of the layout, and build it yourself.
arvanlaa Richo, your idea of a hinge hanging off the side of the dresser is REALLY interesting. The only problem I have is that this dresser is in the most awkward spot ever and there is about all of 1" of space between it and my bed. I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas. I could maybe hang down say a 12" maybe 18" hinged piece off the side that is not decorated but it would have to lie almost flush with the dresser side and that could prove challenging due to wiring and turnout mechanisms. Or am I wrong?
arvanlaa The layout in this forum http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472&start=692, the third post (the one with the yellow track) is that HO? I didn't notice anything in the thread saying what scale it was. If it is... that could offer some real possibilities! (minus the turntable if that is not prototypical of a modern railroad).
The layout in this forum http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472&start=692, the third post (the one with the yellow track) is that HO? I didn't notice anything in the thread saying what scale it was. If it is... that could offer some real possibilities! (minus the turntable if that is not prototypical of a modern railroad).
Sorry - N scale. Jack and Flynn were responding to a request from someone who was modeling in N scale.
Smile, Stein
hi
so sorry, all of them are in N-scale.
Nort so sorry about your wish to go modern without a turntable. Please read back your postings, you seemed to love Steve Otte's idea first.
Lone Geep
\
Wow... I cannot believe the advice and ideas that is pouring in from all of you! Thank you sooo much! I'll try to address each thing.
First, as I've said before, I am not switching from HO. I know I know, I've robbed you of a convert but I simply have no desire to operate in a smaller scale. Yes operations on this layout will be pretty sparse however I am fully aware of this since I want to create a small layout to get my hands on skills down before I start building a larger layout when I move out. This is going to be a learning experience for me, I don't plan on operating on this layout forever, just long enough for me to move out and have at least strong enough walls to mount a shelf layout.
Stein and Steve (and anyone else who would care to chime in), modern railroads don't use round tables anymore do they for engine houses? I saw a product in a Walther's catalog that is for switching onto different tracks but it runs vertically, not in a circle.
For those of you who have thought I would get discouraged by a small layout with little operating possibilities, you are wrong. I appreciate your concern for me but I assure you I will not be discouraged because I know the limitations I am placing on myself.
Please keep the ideas flowing! I am really starting to like the idea of perhaps an engine terminal by the way. If anyone has some good research material for a modern engine house facility, please send it my way. I've looked a bit and I am not finding too much to go on.
mobilman44 But to come up with an operating HO "layout" for that space ............. well, that would be quite a challenge for the best of us, and very likely a discouraging exercise for a newbie.
Which is why it is good that so many operating layouts for smaller spaces have been published in all the references cited earlier in the thread. The Original Poster doesn't have to "come up" with anything -- the work has already been done.
Did you look at any of those? You might find those links enlightening.
Not everyone is lucky enough to have a spare room or a basement for an operating layout -- but almost everyone has space for a layout that can offer some operation and modeling interest.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Stein,
I totally agree with your points, and I am sure there are a number of folks on this forum that could come up with a beautiful diarama in a space that size.
But to come up with an operating HO "layout" for that space ............. well, that would be quite a challenge for the best of us, and very likely a discouraging exercise for a newbie.
Just my opinion, and it carries as much weight as anyone elses.............. I would like to think that anyway.
mobilman44 To fit a satisfying HO layout in the limited space you have is - imho - an exercise in futility.
To fit a satisfying HO layout in the limited space you have is - imho - an exercise in futility.
That depends on what you would classify as a "satisfying layout". Or for that matter - whether the OP actually really want to build a small module or diorama, where the only train running would be moving a train a little back and forth.
My personal preference is for switching. That doesn't mean that one cannot build a 3 foot x 18" section as a single track through the landscape. with the main focus on the landscapes.
Like this (pictures by my friend Svein, showing modules from the Bergen model railroad show in Norway this fall):
It is not a given that one has to have long runs or interesting switching to have fun building something like this.
And of course - if you build sections according to some modular standard (e.g. Freemo), you possibly could take your section and travel to set up a large layout consisting of dozens of sections.
There are lots of ways of enjoying model railroading in some form.
Hi!
Having been in situations where I had little space for a layout - and considered "little space" not worthy of the effort - I spent that time building craftsman rail car models and doing the design work for a future layout.
To fit a satisfying HO layout in the limited space you have is - imho - an exercise in futility. Sorry for the negativity, but you will truly find more satisfaction in building models for that layout of the future.
hi Ulrich
what a great drawing. I saw some more, all amazing.
The hidden part under the building could me made a wee bit shorter however.
I assume you are doing great with your health.
Smile and keep drawing
fwright The 2003 issue of Model Railroad Planning was all about shelf layouts, and several of them were supposed to fit in a 3ft length. The one I liked was a shadow box plan by Iain Rice that folded up into 3ft, but was 6ft when in operation. Carl Arendt's micro-layout site (http://carendt.us/) has numerous plans that would fit into a 3-4ft length, sometimes less. The site is still up, although no new content has been added since Carl's death last March. Two of my favorites from his site are Wye River City - 3ft plus 1ft cassette/switching lead - and Mower Lumber Company - 4ft x 9". I will be building adaptations of both as part of my HO/HOn3 shelf layout on parts of 3 walls in the spare bedroom. my thoughts, your choices Fred W
The 2003 issue of Model Railroad Planning was all about shelf layouts, and several of them were supposed to fit in a 3ft length. The one I liked was a shadow box plan by Iain Rice that folded up into 3ft, but was 6ft when in operation.
Carl Arendt's micro-layout site (http://carendt.us/) has numerous plans that would fit into a 3-4ft length, sometimes less. The site is still up, although no new content has been added since Carl's death last March. Two of my favorites from his site are Wye River City - 3ft plus 1ft cassette/switching lead - and Mower Lumber Company - 4ft x 9". I will be building adaptations of both as part of my HO/HOn3 shelf layout on parts of 3 walls in the spare bedroom.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Well, there you go.
Build a 3 foot layout on the top of the dresser. Hinge both ends of it, so the two ends drop down all the way to the floor.
Assuming that the dresser is something like 60" tall, you can build an 18" x 156" layout. You say you don't have 5 feet on either side? Just adapt the hinged sides to the amount of space that you do have on either side of the dresser.
The Brits are the champions of building small layouts.
18" by 36" with a detachable traverser of 24" would give you something like this:
richhotrain steinjr: Steven Otte: Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack. I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout: Smile, Stein C'mon guys, you've got to be joking. My grandkids would get bored with that in two minutes. The OP would be better off with a 16" x 34" oval in Z-scale. Maybe something like a switch back with crossovers at either end in N-scale. But a turntable and three 22" tracks in HO scale?
steinjr: Steven Otte: Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack. I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout: Smile, Stein
Steven Otte: Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack.
Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack.
I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout:
C'mon guys, you've got to be joking. My grandkids would get bored with that in two minutes.
The OP would be better off with a 16" x 34" oval in Z-scale.
Maybe something like a switch back with crossovers at either end in N-scale.
But a turntable and three 22" tracks in HO scale?
Well, you could have a respectable little locomotive terminal e.g. in N scale in 3 feet of length - see e.g. Shortliner Jack's design "enyardmod3" (Or Hugh Flynn's designs just below it) in this thread on the British RMweb forum: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472&start=692
I also don't doubt for a second that it is possible to squeeze in a smaller turntable and single stall enginehouse in H0 scale, or that one could make a loop in Z scale, or, if one made the layout a little deeper - say 22" deep, a N scale loop with 9 3/4" radius.
Or do a very short engine and car (say a mine loco and tiny hoppers) pizza style layout in H0 scale - see e.g. this web page at Carl Arend't micro layouts site for some examples: http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page67a/index.html
I was just curious to see how Steven Otte had fitted in a Walthers 90 foot turntable and a two stall Walthers engine house plus several service tracks - I am always interested in learning new tricks, tips and ideas.
Btw - good plan there, Paul.
Arvanlaa -
If you really want continuous running in 18" x 36" in HO, I promise you it can be done. I model in On30 which I'm sure you know uses HO track but larger equipment. I used to use HO scale, but it's all in storage now.
But here's my point: Bachmann Porters and Davenports will run just fine on 8" curves, and will pull a couple of very short cars just fine while doing so. Also, I once tried an old HO 0-4-0 IHC on the 8" curves and it worked fine as well.
I'm sure people will tell you a lot of reasons not to do this, many of which will be valid, but my point is that it CAN be done and work fine with small equipment.
- Harry
with the smaller Atlas turntable it could look like this:
I would go back to one of the ultra small designs Stein made for you. I like the one with the traverser or cassette.
In my plan the track between the "main" and the engine house is a service track. A short engine could deliver a coal and sand hopper at the dedicated spot.
Smile