I would like to pose a question to you fine ladies and gentlemen.
I model in HO and have an extremely tiny area to create a layout in. The size is 18"x36" with the possibility of very modest increases, however I am not getting my hops up too much.
I would love suggestions on what I can do with this space. It will be virtually impossible to have a continuous loop so I am thinking a switching layout. I was going to model a short line local railroad but I think it may be easier (and allow my creative juices to flow more) if I created a freelance railroad.
What I am asking is this.... if you were a young university student who lives in a tiny house and the only space you had to create your layout was a 18"x36" space on top of your dresser, what would you do? I'd love to hear all and any ideas you may have. Currently I am working on a small, one bay engine house. Other than that I am open to any and all industry possibilities!
I confess I misread your thread title. I really thought you were complaining about the size of your 18 FOOT by 36 FOOT layout... sheesh.
Search the track plan database (on the MR home page) for small switching layouts. MR has published several in the past couple of years.
The Walthers Cornerstone transfer table could be used to select a couple of different industry tracks,(although it is a space hog) or you could create a hidden cassette to move your trains. A couple of Y's and / or double slip turnouts or double crossovers would allow you to squeeze a lot of track into that space, and if most of your industry structures were flats instead of full buildings, you could probably do rather well in 18" x 36".... especially if you were to cheat and give yourself a 2" overhang at each end to eke out 40"!
Or you could switch to N or Z scale!
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
First question, could you build something that would fit under your bed? There have been a number of folks that do this. It can be on rollers or just slide under. A shortened hollow core door would make a good base. Putting a layer of 2" foam on it would allow you to have below track level scenery. If you could find a loco that could run on 15" radius and use only short cars you could have a loop.
Would you consider N scale for your college years? Could do more with a small space like this.
If neither of the above work, I'd suggest having some low relief industries.on your backdrop Something like an oil dealer, team track or lumber yard come to mind for foreground. Your problem will be leads long enough for a loco and car beyond the switch to move cars from place to place.
Good luck,
Richard
First, I would very seriously consider choosing N scale instead of H0 scale for this layout.
Going from H0 scale to N scale is the functional equivalent of multiplying your layout length (and depth) by 1.8 (1:87 / 1:160) - it makes it appear as if your 18" x 36" base area really is 32" x 64" - i.e. five feet long instead of 3 feet long.
I would also consider era modeled and the theme. Backdating a layout to the early diesel era means that most freight cars are half the length (or less) of the larger modern freight cars.
It makes a significant different in a small switching layout whether you want to have room for a small 4 axle switcher with 40' (or smaller) cars, or whether you want an engine that is twice as long with cars that are twice as long.
You can have continuous running in little space, but you cannot go in a circle. You could however set up a layout that can be run in continuous run back-and-forth (pendulum) modus - e.g. a trolley or a subway or an elevated that goes from one end of the layout to the other, stop for a while and then return. Either as the main attraction or as a side attracktion, if you have room in the background for something like that.
I would also consider whether I have to stay within the confines of the dresser , or whether it can stick out a little at both the ends of the dresser. Adding a little bit of length helps - it is length we run out of first.
Take for instance this simple plan - which in H0 scale is 16" deep abd 8 feet long:
In N scale the same plan would fit in 10" deep and 4 1/2 feet long - i.e it would stick out 9" on both sides if a 36" wide dresser.
Another option would be to make a H0 scale switching layout that goes on a shelf on the wall instead of on top of the dresser.
You could make a micro layout - the late Carl Arendt was the king of the micros - his web site is still maintained by volunteers (and a new installment - the first since his death - has just been published) .- http://www.carendt.com
You could make a layout where you have a detachable cassette or section to extend the length of the layout temporarily while you are running, but where the fixed part is 3 feet long. Or you can use traverses (drawers that slide forward and back) or sector plates (sections of track that swivels) to make your layout functionally longer.
Have a look e.g. at German modeler Alexander Lösch's X street gang layout - he uses a sector plate to create a runaround and a way to move between the two front tracks and the two rear tracks: http://www.frankenmodell.de/xstreet.html / http://www.frankenmodell.de/xstreetrodgau11.html
A couple of simple variants in H0 scale, using 40' cars and short diesel switcher,illustrating sector plate, fixed extension and cassette/traverser:
Lots of options :-)
grin, Stein
arvanlaa the only space you had to create your layout was a 18"x36" space on top of your dresser
I'm guessing you will have more of a "scene" rather than a layout. Ever condsider Z or N scale?
I would put a 18 by 48 inch 3/4 inch plywood board on top of the dresser and use that as my layout space. 3/4 inch ply s/b strong enough to have a six inch hang over (or hangover, since you're in college ) on either side provided that you don't load it up with a lot of weight. Trimming it out with 1x2's would give it added rigidity.
More can be done with the extra foot of layout space.
- Douglas
Dave Husman designed two neat HO track plans for this situation in Model Railroad Planning 2003 as part of the magazine's 11"X36" dorm room bookcase design challenge. They were even based on a real spot along the UP. One was actually 11"X36", the other an overhang for a total length of 48".
Most of the other bookcase plans in that issue were N scale and/or required folding to fit in the 11"X36" space described. Dave's HO plans were clever in making use of wye turnouts to save space in creating the runaround that formed the center of each of the layouts.
Similar plans are found on the Carl Arendt Micro Layout site that was posted above.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
First I would like to say I did think of switching to N or Z scale, however I am choosing not to for two reasons: 1) I will be doing a bigger HO layout once I am able to save up a bit off the $$$ 2) I enjoy doing highly detailed scenes and I've found N and Z are much harder to work with in that regard.
I can't unfortunatly put anything under my bed since it has solid boarding all the way down to the floor. I can go maybe a bit more then the original 18"x36" but we are talking only a few inches at most. I unfortunatly cannot do a shelf layout due to the extremely poor condition of the walls in my room (I had a solid maple shelf and about 15 textbooks crash onto my pillow 3 seconds after I sat up from sleeping one morning lol).
It is true that I will not be able to get much of a runnign session with this layout but my long term plan is to incorporate it into a much longer layout once I move out. For know I want to practice my skills and hone (sp?) them on this small one. I am modelling the modern area at the moment unfortunatly. I have given thought to switching to say the 50's or 60's because I like the buildings and some of the small town scenes I can build from that era, but I havn't decided that yet.
As long as I am able to move a small engine (thinking a GP9) and one or two cars to test the track and show to a few people, I will be happy with that for now.
I saw in an issue of MR that I jsut borrowed from the library, that there is a guy who has a test track that he lays up verticle agaisnt the wall when he is not using it. Can this be done with a fully detailed layout? If there are any other crazy storage idea any of your have, please let me know! If I can store a longer section or say a lead that will allow for some switchign fun, then I can store my layout on my dresser, move it to the living room or basement, install the leads then perhaps have a bit of operating fun.
To those of you who sent pictures or links, unfortunatly I have been unable to look at them yet... I am at work and for whatever reason I cannot see pictures on this site on my computer here. I should give IT a holler...
You have got my creative wheels turning though with your industry and track ideas! Please keep them coming!
arvanlaa First I would like to say I did think of switching to N or Z scale, however I am choosing not to for two reasons: 1) I will be doing a bigger HO layout once I am able to save up a bit off the $$$
First I would like to say I did think of switching to N or Z scale, however I am choosing not to for two reasons: 1) I will be doing a bigger HO layout once I am able to save up a bit off the $$$
Sorry... That didn't make sense. What I meant to say was "once I am able to save up a bit of the $$$ to move out." I am not keeping it small due to modelling costs. It's purely space restrictions.
36" is kind of short for an operating switching layout in HO scale. If you put the turnouts in the middle you'd basically have room for one engine and one car on each side of the points. What I would do is, rather than an industrial layout, consider an engine terminal. You can fit one into that kind of space without having to compress too much. A turntable, a small roundhouse, some outdoor locomotive storage tracks, and depending on your era either coal/water/sand towers and an ash pit with conveyor and clean-out track, or diesel fueling rack/sand tower, inspection pit, and wash rack. You can enjoy building a fascinating superdetailed scene, and still have some fun operating it. And when the time comes you can attach it to your future layout instead of discarding something that's too cramped to be useful.
Similarly, rather than building an entire cramped switching area, model a single large multi-track industry in your space, like a mill complex, ethanol plant, meat-packing plant, or refinery. You might not be able to switch it without the space for a lead track, but maybe you could set up a switch lead/two- or three-track staging yard on a temporary, removable section just a few inches wide. And again, when the time comes to build your permanent layout, you've got a revenue-generating industry ready to go.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Thats a great idea Steve :) I think you are right about having one large industry or a engine service terminal for the mini layout. In terms of creating a lead of maybe 1 or 2 tracks, could that be stored standing vertically? I have a small opening in the corner where my desk is where i could stand a lead section of track. I'm wonderign about the wiring and if it can be sotred vertical (I have absolutly NO IDEA about wiring at all hence why I ask this question).
And if I create this lead track and have it as a removable section, im going to make it as thing as possible so between 4-6". How could I have this lead section supprted? Yo ucan't really have legs on it becasue it is so narrow. Any ideas on how to keep this lead decently strudy once I connect it to the "larger" layout section?
Yes, you can store a layout by standing it on end. HOWEVER, you will have to make sure all your scenic elements are either well attached or easily removeable for storage.
For attaching a building, a foam block just the size to fit inside, then a couple of dabs of latex caulk to hold it in place. For removeable ones, just set the building over the block of foam, remove when putting the layout away. You can also use a corner pin in each corner of a building to have it removeable. Short pieces of styrene or wood should do the trick. Probably even four nails would work to keep it lined up where you want it.
arvanlaa Thats a great idea Steve :) I think you are right about having one large industry or a engine service terminal for the mini layout. In terms of creating a lead of maybe 1 or 2 tracks, could that be stored standing vertically? I have a small opening in the corner where my desk is where i could stand a lead section of track. I'm wonderign about the wiring and if it can be sotred vertical (I have absolutly NO IDEA about wiring at all hence why I ask this question). And if I create this lead track and have it as a removable section, im going to make it as thing as possible so between 4-6". How could I have this lead section supprted? You can't really have legs on it because it is so narrow. Any ideas on how to keep this lead decently strudy once I connect it to the "larger" layout section?
And if I create this lead track and have it as a removable section, im going to make it as thing as possible so between 4-6". How could I have this lead section supprted? You can't really have legs on it because it is so narrow. Any ideas on how to keep this lead decently strudy once I connect it to the "larger" layout section?
Sure, you can store a removable staging/switch lead section vertically. Since there won't be any scenery on it, no problem. And as long as you attach the wiring securely to the base (with staples or clips) it won't be bothered by the handling.
Starting with the January issue, we're running a series of articles about building our latest project layout. I don't want to give away too much before the issue comes out, but it does include a temporary three-track staging yard, 8' long by about 6" wide. It uses metal pins that go into sockets on the main layout to align one end, and the other end is supported by a fold-away leg with one caster. Since you really only need one or two short tracks, yours need not be even that big, so you can easily stand it in a corner or a closet. Base it on a 4-foot length of nice straight 1x4, framed in with Masonite for rigidity and anti-derailment safety, and attach a single 2x2 leg with a hinge. That should be wide enough for a turnout and two 3-foot long tracks in HO scale. Attach the other end to the module with a hinge with a removable pin, to keep things securely aligned so you don't need rail joiners. Use "banana plugs" (available at Radio Shack) to attach the staging section's wiring to the main layout's power bus.
Down the road, you'll attach your module to your future permanent layout via the same track that used to be attached to this staging cassette, so you can use the staging cassette elsewhere on your new layout, in a more permanent position.
Forgot to mention, you'll want to use some method, like a hinged triangular gusset, removable brace, or sliding bolt, to keep the support leg from folding up on you when the staging section is in use.
Be sure to check out
http://www.carendt.com/index.html
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
I'm looking at the coffee table I built about 12 years ago in high school shop class, and it just happens to fit those exact dimensions. Unless you are going for a diorama, I think you might be in the wrong scale. Check out last months issue of Model Railroader, Steven Otte (did I get that wrong?) features his small N scale Southern layout. Its made to sit on the kitchen table to run, and tuck under the bed when not. Its 36 x 54 inches. Great little layout I think.
Other HO ideas, build a small engine facility. Your engine house, maybe a freight house, engine storage track, service track to receive cars of sand and gondolas of coal. Or model part of large industry, like maybe the rolling mill of a steel mill. Small water front dock side scene with a wharf for unloading ships to rail and a large warehouse flat. Maybe very small car float operations. An iron ore dock. Just gota look around and use your head.
arvanlaa I model in HO and have an extremely tiny area to create a layout in. The size is 18"x36" with the possibility of very modest increases, however I am not getting my hops up too much. What I am asking is this.... if you were a young university student who lives in a tiny house and the only space you had to create your layout was a 18"x36" space on top of your dresser, what would you do?
What I am asking is this.... if you were a young university student who lives in a tiny house and the only space you had to create your layout was a 18"x36" space on top of your dresser, what would you do?
I am going to take a contrarian view on this issue and urge the OP to drop the idea of an 18" x 36" dresser top layout.
If I were in this situation, I would be thinking about something more portable that can be taken out, assembled, and then taken down and put away each time you are done.
Consider something like Kato HO Scale Uni Track. Build a layout on the floor or on top of your bed. Move the structures on top of your dresser while you put the layout up and take it down.
An 18" x 36" layout is too hopelessly small to do much of anything. You would be better off just building a diorama on top of your dresser.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks guys for all your continued input!
Steve, I am REALLY looking forward to that issue now to see what you guys did and thank you for all the advice on the lead extension.
richhotrain I am going to take a contrarian view on this issue and urge the OP to drop the idea of an 18" x 36" dresser top layout. If I were in this situation, I would be thinking about something more portable that can be taken out, assembled, and then taken down and put away each time you are done.
Rich, I would LOVE to be able to do that, but I simply have no space whatsoever to store this layout... hence why its going on the dresser. I live in a TINY house and the only place I can store my own things is my bedroom. The only other place I could thin kof to store things is the rafters in the basement (on top of the 2x4 support beams) but the margin for error is so tiny that a little mistep could damage any scenery I have built.
Thank you though for your advice :) I'm taking everything in and I've been doodling and scheming at work trying to figure somethign out :)
arvanlaa Thanks guys for all your continued input! Steve, I am REALLY looking forward to that issue now to see what you guys did and thank you for all the advice on the lead extension. richhotrain: I am going to take a contrarian view on this issue and urge the OP to drop the idea of an 18" x 36" dresser top layout. If I were in this situation, I would be thinking about something more portable that can be taken out, assembled, and then taken down and put away each time you are done. Rich, I would LOVE to be able to do that, but I simply have no space whatsoever to store this layout... hence why its going on the dresser. I live in a TINY house and the only place I can store my own things is my bedroom. The only other place I could thin kof to store things is the rafters in the basement (on top of the 2x4 support beams) but the margin for error is so tiny that a little mistep could damage any scenery I have built. Thank you though for your advice :) I'm taking everything in and I've been doodling and scheming at work trying to figure somethign out :)
richhotrain: I am going to take a contrarian view on this issue and urge the OP to drop the idea of an 18" x 36" dresser top layout. If I were in this situation, I would be thinking about something more portable that can be taken out, assembled, and then taken down and put away each time you are done.
Heck, you can dissemble the track and stick it in a drawer.
richhotrain Heck, you can dissemble the track and stick it in a drawer. Rich
Rich, I have literally looked at ALL storage options... even drawers lol. My room is just stuffed with so much stuff that I need for through the year . Can't under my bed because theres baseboards, drawers are out, closet is tiny and packed with clothes and boxes of modelling stuff, desk is my work station full of school work and modelling area and the shelf on my desk has my sound system. I can't do a layout on the wall because the walls are in horrendous condition and I was almost killed by a Maple bookshelf falling on my pilliow just seconds after I woke up. The only place is on top of that dresser and the little corner where my desk is that I can stand up a staging lead as Steve suggested.
I also get the feeling you'll be happier with something you can scenic, however small it might be. Pick a single scene that you can integrate into a full layout later and go for it. John Allen's legendary Gorre & Daphetid started out as a 43" x 68" HO tabletop.
LOL
Here is my final suggestion. How about a layout on pulleys raised to the ceiling when not in use? LOL
Seriously, though, if you are that hard pressed for room, I think you should stick to drawing plans for future layouts when you have the space instead of frustrating yourself trying to build a layout on an 18" x 36" dresser top. The power supply alone will take up 5 percent of the available space. Add a structure or two and you pretty much run out of room to do anything with track.
Steve you nailed it on the head! Yes, I do want to practise my scenery skills and try different methods so once I can build a decent layout, it will be a masterpiece! :P And to knwo that Tony's amazing layout started that small... well now im inspired!
richhotrain LOL Here is my final suggestion. How about a layout on pulleys raised to the ceiling when not in use? LOL Rich
Believe it or not Rich, a couple years ago, my dad and I actually thought of doing that! We dreamed a bit bigge and wanted hydraulics but my mom had to be a killjoy and so we scrapped our dream of a floating layout in the sky haha!
But ya, liek I said to steve, I do want to practise my scenery makign skills on this mini layout. True there will be minimal track, but hey... I'll take it over nothing just so I can get my feet wet in the actual hands on work :)
PS... sorry for my atrocious spelling. I am at work and my computer doesn't ahve spell check for the web and I'm typing REALLY fast so I don't get caught lol!
Hey, be careful! I have an excuse to be on the MR forums at work!
Hey Steve, do you knwo of any free layout design program I can use on the web or download for free? I really don't want to pay since mine is so small, however I would like to get my ideas down.
Atlas distributes a program called Right Track that's free. It's made for designing layouts with Atlas track though, so if you're planning on using another brand, it will be only of general use to you. You can get it from http://www.atlasrr.com/righttrack.htm .
Most of the commercial track plan software makers offer limited versions of their programs for free. The demo versions might be full-featured, but don't let you save or print; others are limited to the number of components you can use; etc. Check out http://trackplanning.com/download.htm , http://www.anyrail.com/download_en.html and http://sandiasoftware.com/demo9.htm .
Awesome thanks Steve! even if the atlas is for their own products, I just want to get the idea of how it'll be laid out, doesn't have to be exact at all.
And look at you Mr. Cheeky Associate Editor! Advising me to screenshot! FOR SHAME!
I'll do it though haha!
I have no idea what you're talking about.
There is also a program called XtrakCAD. that is free. Do a search in google and you should find it, it has a somewhat steep learning curve but is more powerful over RightTrack IMO.
I've been following this thread for awhile because I love small layouts. If you really are set on using HO then this layout is going to be severly limited. I tried the Righttrack software and using the code 100 track which offers the smallest turnouts in this space. I tried several different approaches but could not really make anything that would operate well in this space. Even just one small turnout in the center of this space looks like it makes all the connecting tracks to short for even one car and a small switcher to clear the points.
Since I don't model in HO I don't know how small a switcher loco is now a days so maybe it is possible due to my limited knowledge.
Here are some options:
1. Build this as a diorama. Operation really isn't possible in this space on HO. Learn to build, scenic and detail on the layout for when you have more space.
2. You mentioned this is on a dresser. Can the dresser be moved so that there is an extra 6 inches on both ends? Adding an extra 12 inches and having 6 inches overhang both sides makes a big difference. The extra track will hold a small switcher loco and one car and make operating possible.
You could maybe do something with sector plates or traversers hidden inside structures(see the Carl Ardent site mentioned) to get out of the space needed for turnouts, but it still would be very limited.
3. Honestly, making the switch from HO to N is the best option and choice you can make if you really are stuck with the size mentioned and what to operate a layout in the end. As a modeler who had to move from HO to N for space reasons I know the feeling but I can tell you, if you really want something you can operate, you will be more satisfied with N in this space.