Thanks a ton for your suggestions ajkochev!
I'm decently good at picking up new software so I'll give your suggestion a go :)
What if i am adding a 4 foot section of lead track that can start turnouts off the actual 18"x36" dresser area? What I am begging to think is to have it on top of my desk to store, then take it off and oeprate it in a common room like the living room or basement. I know I am going to have sever restriction in operating. I have accepted this and I think I am fine with it right now. I just want a mix between diorama where I can practice my scenery skills and a semi operating layout just so I can learn how to wire, install track ect (which I have no experience in whatsoever so its important to start learning).
I really want to stick with the HO. I do not plan on being in this room long since I'll be out in a short time frame hopefully. Then I can build a bigger layout and add my 18"x36" section to it. If I switch to N, I will need to buy all new equipment and buildings and as a poor university student, you can understand my budget constraints :P
arvanlaa What if i am adding a 4 foot section of lead track that can start turnouts off the actual 18"x36" dresser area?
What if i am adding a 4 foot section of lead track that can start turnouts off the actual 18"x36" dresser area?
4 feet of switching lead for a 3 foot layout is way too much - you won't be able to use all that extra length in a sensible way. But if you can add an 18-24" switching lead, then you can use that.
If you have gotten you web browser fixed, look at those 4 1/2foot track plans I posted. They all allow quite a bit of switching - including the one with just had a single (removable) lead track added.
If you haven't gotten your browser fixed, then fix it :-)
Smile, Stein
arvanlaa Hey Steve, do you knwo of any free layout design program I can use on the web or download for free? I really don't want to pay since mine is so small, however I would like to get my ideas down.
Hey Steve, do you knwo of any free layout design program I can use on the web or download for free? I really don't want to pay since mine is so small, however I would like to get my ideas down.
There is a free program availabe that is still in the developement stage called SCARM (Simple Computer Aided Railway Modeller). http://www.scarm.info
Easy program to learn plus has the ability to view in 3D.
Btw - another resource for lots of small switching plans (in H0 or OO scale) - have a look at the track plans by Hugh Flynn (and "Shortliner" Jack Trollope) on the old (not longer being posted to) rmweb forum - see e.g. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472
Don't recall any track plans being 3 feet long, but the plans show a lot of interesting ideas for small layouts.
The current RMweb forums can be found here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/
The 2003 issue of Model Railroad Planning was all about shelf layouts, and several of them were supposed to fit in a 3ft length. The one I liked was a shadow box plan by Iain Rice that folded up into 3ft, but was 6ft when in operation.
Carl Arendt's micro-layout site (http://carendt.us/) has numerous plans that would fit into a 3-4ft length, sometimes less. The site is still up, although no new content has been added since Carl's death last March. Two of my favorites from his site are Wye River City - 3ft plus 1ft cassette/switching lead - and Mower Lumber Company - 4ft x 9". I will be building adaptations of both as part of my HO/HOn3 shelf layout on parts of 3 walls in the spare bedroom.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
fwright Carl Arendt's micro-layout site (http://carendt.us/) has numerous plans that would fit into a 3-4ft length, sometimes less. The site is still up, although no new content has been added since Carl's death last March.
Carl Arendt's micro-layout site (http://carendt.us/) has numerous plans that would fit into a 3-4ft length, sometimes less. The site is still up, although no new content has been added since Carl's death last March.
The first new update on Carl's page after Carl's death was posted on November 1st 2011, thanks to a volunteers who stepped in to help maintain the site in Carl's memory: http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page107/
Updated index for the website: http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/linkindex/index.html
Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack. Since operations on this layout would support only locomotives, not cars, you'd only need a staging/switch lead cassette of one track 2' long or less. Very workable, and a lot of possibilities for a great superdetailed scene.
I'm of a mind to work up some large-industry layouts too, but something tells me they wouldn't have as much operating potential.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Steve that sounds pretty fantastic! I am making a Single bay engine house from Pikestuff right now, but I am sure I can adapt the track plan and use the second track as a junk gondola spur or something.
Steven Otte Since operations on this layout would support only locomotives, not cars, you'd only need a staging/switch lead cassette of one track 2' long or less. Very workable, and a lot of possibilities for a great superdetailed scene. I'm of a mind to work up some large-industry layouts too, but something tells me they wouldn't have as much operating potential.
Since operations on this layout would support only locomotives, not cars, you'd only need a staging/switch lead cassette of one track 2' long or less. Very workable, and a lot of possibilities for a great superdetailed scene.
When you say lead cassette, are you talking about that lead extension that we were considering that I could store vertically? The 'cassette' part threw me off. I don't know too much MRR lingo
I would love to see that engine facility layout that you did and anything else too! A small, super detailed scene would be perfect to use! If you manage to create something for a large industry too (or even a couple medium/small industries that only need 1 or 2 cars to fill their needs, I am game for that too :)
Thanks Steve!
Arvanlaa,You are my new inspiration. When I read your post asking for advice on a dresser top layout I looked around at my own layout and realized how fortunate I am to have an entire room in my basement to work with. As I looked over my layout, I saw how much space is just wasted. I am now commited to using every available inch of my layout and not forgetting how lucky I am! I trully hope that you are getting some great advice that will give you a layout you are proud of! Thanks for opening my eyes!
Mark.
http://mwcohio.blogspot.com
Steven Otte Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack.
Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack.
I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout:
steinjr Steven Otte: Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack. I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout: Smile, Stein
Steven Otte: Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack.
C'mon guys, you've got to be joking. My grandkids would get bored with that in two minutes.
The OP would be better off with a 16" x 34" oval in Z-scale.
Maybe something like a switch back with crossovers at either end in N-scale.
But a turntable and three 22" tracks in HO scale?
Rich
Alton Junction
hi,
with the smaller Atlas turntable it could look like this:
I would go back to one of the ultra small designs Stein made for you. I like the one with the traverser or cassette.
In my plan the track between the "main" and the engine house is a service track. A short engine could deliver a coal and sand hopper at the dedicated spot.
Smile
Paul
Arvanlaa -
If you really want continuous running in 18" x 36" in HO, I promise you it can be done. I model in On30 which I'm sure you know uses HO track but larger equipment. I used to use HO scale, but it's all in storage now.
But here's my point: Bachmann Porters and Davenports will run just fine on 8" curves, and will pull a couple of very short cars just fine while doing so. Also, I once tried an old HO 0-4-0 IHC on the 8" curves and it worked fine as well.
I'm sure people will tell you a lot of reasons not to do this, many of which will be valid, but my point is that it CAN be done and work fine with small equipment.
- Harry
richhotrain steinjr: Steven Otte: Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack. I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout: Smile, Stein C'mon guys, you've got to be joking. My grandkids would get bored with that in two minutes. The OP would be better off with a 16" x 34" oval in Z-scale. Maybe something like a switch back with crossovers at either end in N-scale. But a turntable and three 22" tracks in HO scale?
steinjr: Steven Otte: Just doodling with a pencil, a track-planning template, and a Walthers catalog last night, I was able to come up with a workable, if quite compact, engine terminal in 18" x 36". It includes a Walthers 90' turntable on one side, a Walthers two-stall engine house on the opposite back corner, and in front, two turnouts providing two routes to the turntable and a spur for a Stewart diesel fueling rack. I'd love to see your plan. Here is a quick sketch showing (to scale) a H0 scale Walthers 90' turntable and a H0 scale Walthers two-stall enginehouse on an18" x 36" layout: Smile, Stein
Well, you could have a respectable little locomotive terminal e.g. in N scale in 3 feet of length - see e.g. Shortliner Jack's design "enyardmod3" (Or Hugh Flynn's designs just below it) in this thread on the British RMweb forum: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472&start=692
I also don't doubt for a second that it is possible to squeeze in a smaller turntable and single stall enginehouse in H0 scale, or that one could make a loop in Z scale, or, if one made the layout a little deeper - say 22" deep, a N scale loop with 9 3/4" radius.
Or do a very short engine and car (say a mine loco and tiny hoppers) pizza style layout in H0 scale - see e.g. this web page at Carl Arend't micro layouts site for some examples: http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page67a/index.html
I was just curious to see how Steven Otte had fitted in a Walthers 90 foot turntable and a two stall Walthers engine house plus several service tracks - I am always interested in learning new tricks, tips and ideas.
Btw - good plan there, Paul.
The Brits are the champions of building small layouts.
18" by 36" with a detachable traverser of 24" would give you something like this:
fwright The 2003 issue of Model Railroad Planning was all about shelf layouts, and several of them were supposed to fit in a 3ft length. The one I liked was a shadow box plan by Iain Rice that folded up into 3ft, but was 6ft when in operation. Carl Arendt's micro-layout site (http://carendt.us/) has numerous plans that would fit into a 3-4ft length, sometimes less. The site is still up, although no new content has been added since Carl's death last March. Two of my favorites from his site are Wye River City - 3ft plus 1ft cassette/switching lead - and Mower Lumber Company - 4ft x 9". I will be building adaptations of both as part of my HO/HOn3 shelf layout on parts of 3 walls in the spare bedroom. my thoughts, your choices Fred W
Well, there you go.
Build a 3 foot layout on the top of the dresser. Hinge both ends of it, so the two ends drop down all the way to the floor.
Assuming that the dresser is something like 60" tall, you can build an 18" x 156" layout. You say you don't have 5 feet on either side? Just adapt the hinged sides to the amount of space that you do have on either side of the dresser.
hi Ulrich
what a great drawing. I saw some more, all amazing.
The hidden part under the building could me made a wee bit shorter however.
I assume you are doing great with your health.
Smile and keep drawing
Hi!
Having been in situations where I had little space for a layout - and considered "little space" not worthy of the effort - I spent that time building craftsman rail car models and doing the design work for a future layout.
To fit a satisfying HO layout in the limited space you have is - imho - an exercise in futility. Sorry for the negativity, but you will truly find more satisfaction in building models for that layout of the future.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44 To fit a satisfying HO layout in the limited space you have is - imho - an exercise in futility.
To fit a satisfying HO layout in the limited space you have is - imho - an exercise in futility.
That depends on what you would classify as a "satisfying layout". Or for that matter - whether the OP actually really want to build a small module or diorama, where the only train running would be moving a train a little back and forth.
My personal preference is for switching. That doesn't mean that one cannot build a 3 foot x 18" section as a single track through the landscape. with the main focus on the landscapes.
Like this (pictures by my friend Svein, showing modules from the Bergen model railroad show in Norway this fall):
It is not a given that one has to have long runs or interesting switching to have fun building something like this.
And of course - if you build sections according to some modular standard (e.g. Freemo), you possibly could take your section and travel to set up a large layout consisting of dozens of sections.
There are lots of ways of enjoying model railroading in some form.
Stein,
I totally agree with your points, and I am sure there are a number of folks on this forum that could come up with a beautiful diarama in a space that size.
But to come up with an operating HO "layout" for that space ............. well, that would be quite a challenge for the best of us, and very likely a discouraging exercise for a newbie.
Just my opinion, and it carries as much weight as anyone elses.............. I would like to think that anyway.
mobilman44 But to come up with an operating HO "layout" for that space ............. well, that would be quite a challenge for the best of us, and very likely a discouraging exercise for a newbie.
Which is why it is good that so many operating layouts for smaller spaces have been published in all the references cited earlier in the thread. The Original Poster doesn't have to "come up" with anything -- the work has already been done.
Did you look at any of those? You might find those links enlightening.
Not everyone is lucky enough to have a spare room or a basement for an operating layout -- but almost everyone has space for a layout that can offer some operation and modeling interest.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Wow... I cannot believe the advice and ideas that is pouring in from all of you! Thank you sooo much! I'll try to address each thing.
First, as I've said before, I am not switching from HO. I know I know, I've robbed you of a convert but I simply have no desire to operate in a smaller scale. Yes operations on this layout will be pretty sparse however I am fully aware of this since I want to create a small layout to get my hands on skills down before I start building a larger layout when I move out. This is going to be a learning experience for me, I don't plan on operating on this layout forever, just long enough for me to move out and have at least strong enough walls to mount a shelf layout.
Stein and Steve (and anyone else who would care to chime in), modern railroads don't use round tables anymore do they for engine houses? I saw a product in a Walther's catalog that is for switching onto different tracks but it runs vertically, not in a circle.
Richo, your idea of a hinge hanging off the side of the dresser is REALLY interesting. The only problem I have is that this dresser is in the most awkward spot ever and there is about all of 1" of space between it and my bed. I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas. I could maybe hang down say a 12" maybe 18" hinged piece off the side that is not decorated but it would have to lie almost flush with the dresser side and that could prove challenging due to wiring and turnout mechanisms. Or am I wrong?
The layout in this forum http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472&start=692, the third post (the one with the yellow track) is that HO? I didn't notice anything in the thread saying what scale it was. If it is... that could offer some real possibilities! (minus the turntable if that is not prototypical of a modern railroad).
For those of you who have thought I would get discouraged by a small layout with little operating possibilities, you are wrong. I appreciate your concern for me but I assure you I will not be discouraged because I know the limitations I am placing on myself.
Please keep the ideas flowing! I am really starting to like the idea of perhaps an engine terminal by the way. If anyone has some good research material for a modern engine house facility, please send it my way. I've looked a bit and I am not finding too much to go on.
That vertical table that you saw in the catalog is called a transfer table. The round tables are called turntables and no, most modern railroads don't use them anymore. Those went out when steam left the railroading scene.
Lone Geep
\
hi
so sorry, all of them are in N-scale.
Nort so sorry about your wish to go modern without a turntable. Please read back your postings, you seemed to love Steve Otte's idea first.
arvanlaa First, as I've said before, I am not switching from HO. I know I know, I've robbed you of a convert but I simply have no desire to operate in a smaller scale. Yes operations on this layout will be pretty sparse
First, as I've said before, I am not switching from HO. I know I know, I've robbed you of a convert but I simply have no desire to operate in a smaller scale. Yes operations on this layout will be pretty sparse
"Sparse" means "not dense"/"widely spaced", The word you are looking for is "limited". Yes - operations (i.e the purposeful movement of trains and railroad cars) on a small layout will by necessity be fairly limited.
arvanlaa modern railroads don't use round tables anymore do they for engine houses? I saw a product in a Walther's catalog that is for switching onto different tracks but it runs vertically, not in a circle.
modern railroads don't use round tables anymore do they for engine houses? I saw a product in a Walther's catalog that is for switching onto different tracks but it runs vertically, not in a circle.
You mean "horizontally" - sideways. "Vertically" is like an elevator - up and down :-)
What you are describing is called a transfer table. Was mostly used in repair shops, or in places that built locomotives - so you could take a locomotive e.g. from bay 10 of the building to the exit track at the end of the transfer table.
The Walthers transfer table is about 15 x 15" (i.e one third of your total space) and costs something like $350. It would probably be smarter with a small table to have the transfer table outside the modeled part of the layout, and build it yourself.
arvanlaa Richo, your idea of a hinge hanging off the side of the dresser is REALLY interesting. The only problem I have is that this dresser is in the most awkward spot ever and there is about all of 1" of space between it and my bed. I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas. I could maybe hang down say a 12" maybe 18" hinged piece off the side that is not decorated but it would have to lie almost flush with the dresser side and that could prove challenging due to wiring and turnout mechanisms. Or am I wrong?
Not quite sure what you are asking here. But a hinged section might as well be folded up as down, if having it fold down is a problem. Just make sure you have some simple way of locking it in the upright position, so it won't bonk you in the head as you are getting out of bed in the morning :-)
arvanlaa The layout in this forum http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=24472&start=692, the third post (the one with the yellow track) is that HO? I didn't notice anything in the thread saying what scale it was. If it is... that could offer some real possibilities! (minus the turntable if that is not prototypical of a modern railroad).
Sorry - N scale. Jack and Flynn were responding to a request from someone who was modeling in N scale.
steinjr arvanlaa: Richo, your idea of a hinge hanging off the side of the dresser is REALLY interesting. The only problem I have is that this dresser is in the most awkward spot ever and there is about all of 1" of space between it and my bed. I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas. I could maybe hang down say a 12" maybe 18" hinged piece off the side that is not decorated but it would have to lie almost flush with the dresser side and that could prove challenging due to wiring and turnout mechanisms. Or am I wrong? Not quite sure what you are asking here. But a hinged section might as well be folded up as down, if having it fold down is a problem. Just make sure you have some simple way of locking it in the upright position, so it won't bonk you in the head as you are getting out of bed in the morning :-)
arvanlaa:
Stein, you took the words right out of my mouth. If you cannot hinge the two sides down, then hinge them up.
Something's got to work here unless the OP lives in a box. LOL
arvanlaa I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas.
I really need to take a picture of the area I am working with... It might help you gents with ideas.
A photo of the room might help at this point.
lone geep That vertical table that you saw in the catalog is called a transfer table. The round tables are called turntables and no, most modern railroads don't use them anymore. Those went out when steam left the railroading scene.
Some railroads still use their surviving turntables to turn diesels.
Hi guys,
Looks like my input was not well regarded and I bow to the majority. I was under the impression the OP was in a temporary situation, and his efforts would be more satisfying with building models or the like.
Guess I was wrong, but that's not the first time - and likely not the last. I do wish the OP the very best in his endeavors and look forward to seeing the results!
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