I haven't... really the only section where that would be beneficial would be the flat yard/town area. The rest of the layout is going to be hills!
Hold my beer... ya'll watch this!
Good to see the progress your making on the layout can't wait to see more.
80ktsClamp
As you are using 3 % grades, what are you doing for vertical easements?
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
Doc, I have not engineered that yet... likely some thin cut foam. The woodland scenics incline is so smooth, I'm certainly considering not even bothering with the effort.
I've been attaching the foamboard to the layout last night and tonight. I can almost taste running trains!
Here is tonight's progress... 3 foam cutouts to go and it'll be a wrap! You can see the paint cans I was using to weigh down the section so it remains flush.
A technique question: Is using a long drill bit the best bet for sending the wiring from underneath up through the plywood and foam to the track?
Thanks, yall!
-Denny
Great work Denny. I've enjoyed reading about your layout progress. I can't wait until you start laying track and doing the scenery.
Continue to keep up posted on progress
Cheers,
Daryl
Denny, why 4 inches of foam board? Boy that will make for some real deep gullies! I only have 2 inches for the base on my layout. Now the section that has the mine on it, it is 7 inches of foam.
For making the holes on the deeper section I found a 10 inch long drill bite at Home Depot. I go as you are planing from the underside of the layout. After I get the rails wired and fill the hole with a little caulk then add ground cover.
Looking forward to seeing some more pictures as well.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken Denny, why 4 inches of foam board? Boy that will make for some real deep gullies! I only have 2 inches for the base on my layout. Now the section that has the mine on it, it is 7 inches of foam. For making the holes on the deeper section I found a 10 inch long drill bite at Home Depot. I go as you are planing from the underside of the layout. After I get the rails wired and fill the hole with a little caulk then add ground cover. Looking forward to seeing some more pictures as well. Cuda Ken
It is going to be some pretty rugged mountainous terrain with a deep ravine including a trestle. The 4 inches of foam board gives me more options with vertical planning, and it left even more additional left over foam for buildings hills!
What you describe for drilling is exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for that.
After a year and 5 months of very very paced building, I finally finished the bench work tonight with gluing on the last 3 pieces of foam board! Some structures migrated their way back to the layout in celebration as well as the 3% grade.
Once you get to the operating stage we need video so we can all enjoy the fine work you are doing. I am going to be sitting at my computed desk finishing a box car kit I started yesterday. With looking at a move and a new house in the hopefully near future building a layout seems so far away. I am really enjoying yours, thanks for sharing.
I'll be sure to do that, J. Rob! One step at a time!
I started drawing out the complex areas on the east side of the layout tonight. I set the mainline track separation at 2-3/16 inches, and the yard separation is at 2 inches even. The radius for the mainline outer curve entering the and exiting the main straightaway is set at 30 inches with the road bed 3/4 of an inch away from the edge. The inner track is a little tighter on the curve at 25-5/8 inches, but it doesn't have to worry about separation from other cars.
I got the straight away set up all the way to the 90 degree points for the curve exit and entry, and I also set the centerline for the 3 main yard tracks (verifying very importantly that I had more than enough room to fit a double stack 5-car unit on the "intermodal" track ,which i've easily got).
Now for pictures!
Here, you can see the straight away (solid lines are the centerlines, dashed are the WS road bed edges) taken to the 90 degree points, turnouts in the yard in their respective places (some approximate), structures in generic place for reference, and flex track centered over the yard centerlines testing the separation and look.
I stopped short of attempting to draw the curves tonight- I'm trying to keep very strict tolerances, and haven't really come up with a quicker way that is accurate enough to draw the curves to the tolerances i need for the entry and exit into the town.
Anyone have any input for how to do it efficiently and accurately? The most accurate method I thought of was doing dots every half inch slowly rotating the yard stick around and then connecting them, although that would be quite tedious.
edit: I almost forgot, you can see my wife's HO scale mini-cooper driving through town.
Hi Denny,
I like what I see, you are doing some very careful planning that will really pay off for you.
The one thing I see that I would really address before you get along too far, and that is your ceiling.
You have fiberglass insulation up there that is atrocious for collecting dust and small pieces of the fiber breaking off and dropping down. If you can't afford to do anything else with it at least drape it with plastic vapor barrier and tape the seams. That will be a major help in keeping your layout clean.
Just an old modelers opinion.
Johnboy out....................................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
I'll look into the ceiling stuff.. I've been paying very close attention to any collection of particles on the layout, and it is extremely minimal.
After experimenting with a couple different methods tonight, I got the north mainline entry/exit curves drawn tonight:
The outer 30" curve isnt quite as pretty as I was refining my methods... the pen on a string was not pretty and the original dotting method was just ok. I ended up refining the dot method to little short lines all the way around, which worked out great as you can see on the inner 2 tracks. 2-3/16" spacing maintained all the way around!
Two other ways of drawing a radius are making a full size template which can provide you with 2 radius per template. I would recommend Masonite or a similar type of material. another way is to sacrifice a yard stick or straight piece of thin wood and drill some holes for your different radii. A push pin or finishing nail could be used for your center point.
Each have some advantages the templates can be used in places that it would be difficult to swing a compass due to the center point being off the layout, and the compass will let you make many more different radii and is easier to make.
So here we are, the completed track plan on the base level of the foamboard! I actually cut out a number of turnouts from the design... and I've added the possibility of a feeder off to a staging area. It appears that a Peco #5 turnout very closely approximates a 30" radius curve.
I've made a few refinements to make things run smoother as I saw how they applied on the large scale, which you may notice if referencing the original drawing. Here it is!
The mainline through town looking north:
Same vantage point, looking west:
The yard (the cement plant was a bit mis-aligned when I dropped it on the layout for the demo pictures- whoops!):
North out of town heading toward the mountains and quarry- you can see the proposed spur to a staging area where the turnout is located:
And the view of the quarry/mine and single track area through the mountains:
Now comes the tedious process of attaching the grade, and then pre-wiring.
Fantastic job on your layout. Photos are good as well. This thread looks like a great new article or series in MR. How to design and build a model railroad via the internet. The work on the layout is really rolling along. I just went back and looked at some of the original posts and I am really impressed how the discussion led to refinements and their implementation in what is going to be a really nice model railroad. I can almost hear the trains running now.
The plans for being able to relocate the layout in the future if it becomes necessary are excellent as well. I am enjoying the thread a great deal and feel like I have already visited your layout thanks to your photography and well written posts.
Thanks for sharing.
J. Rob
Thanks for the compliments, J. Rob! It's definitely getting much closer.
I purchased a Walthers Shinohara # 8 R curved turnout to establish the feed to the "staging" section that will be where that smaller turnout is now. I've got plenty of wood left over to make it, and I believe it can serve a good purpose, particularly with the leftover turnouts that I have from the streamlining of the layout.
Tonights update:
I solved the issue of the parallel WS inclines not matching up by reducing that to a single incline and overlaying a traced and cut 1/8" hardboard to it.
I cut the hardboard overlay tonight, which worked perfect! It will be shimmed and actually end up providing an easement into the incline as well. Here is the test with the grades obviously not attached to the curves and the tracing paper still on the cutout:
Next up will be the "south" double tracked grade to get it's hardboard overlay cut.
My big curved Shinohara turnout came in today, so I measured for the new feed to the staging area. Since I have a number of extra turnouts thanks to efficiencies found during the measuring of the layout, I've got some left for building about a 10 foot long staging area.
Here is the turnout and new feed to staging (which fits great!) and you can see how I curved the inclines underneath the hardboard as well.
I like your progress. Just out of curiosity (and maybe I missed it), are you going to finish the walls? And how would that impact the layout?
I'm building a studwall in my basement to section off a layout room and as much as I dislike the thought of dragging drywall home, I don't think I've got a reasonable or cheaper alternative. DW really dislikes paneling.
No plans to finish the walls... this is in a utility area. There will be a backdrop around a good portion of the layout.
More steps forward... completed the "south" hardboard cutout for the doubletrack on the incline. I also spaced out and am ready to start laying the roadbed/prewiring on the mainline. I'll need to shim a tad for the incline between sections and cut the hardboard as well so it's fully separatable.
80ktsClamp No plans to finish the walls... this is in a utility area. There will be a backdrop around a good portion of the layout.
The layout will look better if you have a backdrop on at least the walls that the layout touches. To my eye, that's one studded wall, and a short portion of a concrete wall.
Speaking from experience, attaching a backdrop directly to a concrete wall is no fun. It would've been wise to extend the legs of the benchwork upwards to rise 24 inches above the lateral plane of the foam to give you something to nail too.
On the studded wall, its best to attach the backdrop before you get too far along laying track. Supporting yourself or resting tools on the benchwork whilst attaching the backdrop to the wall will likely dent the foam subroadbed.
It would be wise to complete your backdrop along the more inaccessible areas at this point.
- Douglas
The backdrop will be attached on the backside of the layout.. I'm approaching the stage where it will be going on. There is actually plenty of space behind the benchwork where I can slide in and attach what will be the backdrop, and there is the major advantage of being able to reach through the walls behind it.
I made some major progress today. All of the WS inclines were secured in place (including the split off into the yard), and the 2 inch higher elevation foamular area for the mine was cut and fitted. Even though it looks like it's one piece, everything is divided at the section lines and can be taken apart when that time comes. The inclines make it to 4 inches in elevation and then it will level out, as you can see. I'll cut and fit that section probably tomorrow.
Hope yall are enjoying the step by step!
I'm sure everyone following this is enjoying the step by step. The layout is really going places. Anticipation of the time trains will be running is mounting. The photos really help the story. As I am writing this I am thinking of all of the nice "layout visits" I have enjoyed because of the internet. In my case I live out in the middle of nowhere, nearest hobby shop nearly 100 miles away, but due to the modern miracle of the internet it is as if I have lots of model railroaders in the same neighborhood.
Thanks for taking the time to share your efforts, I know that has to seem like lots of extra work at times, nearly as much as having folks drop by but with out the benefit of having them help with your project. Looking forward to your next installment.
I'm glad you're enjoying it, J.Rob!
I completed the loop with all the elevation changes, as well as secured the hardboard overlay for the "south" section:
J.Rob I'm sure everyone following this is enjoying the step by step. The layout is really going places. Anticipation of the time trains will be running is mounting. The photos really help the story. As I am writing this I am thinking of all of the nice "layout visits" I have enjoyed because of the internet. In my case I live out in the middle of nowhere, nearest hobby shop nearly 100 miles away, but due to the modern miracle of the internet it is as if I have lots of model railroaders in the same neighborhood. Thanks for taking the time to share your efforts, I know that has to seem like lots of extra work at times, nearly as much as having folks drop by but with out the benefit of having them help with your project. Looking forward to your next installment.
Gidday, Nicely put, I share your sentiments, great to be able to just "drop in " from 8000 miles away.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Well, I've finished shimming the transitions to and from the hardboard overlay, completed the area for the yard lead, drilled holes and placed the feeder wires (to the mainline), and started laying the roadbed!
Here is the yard lead area:
The first piece of road bed:
And plenty more roadbed done:
chochowillie Thanks for the complement, and the suggestions. The room will have a suspended ceiling in place in the not too distant future, long before I even finish laying rail. Just waiting for an investment to come due The layout is actually fastened directly to the wall studs so nothing is going to move short of an earthquake. Stay tuned, I seem to be on a roll of late mostly because spring is still a ways away here in Alberta, Canada
Thanks for the complement, and the suggestions. The room will have a suspended ceiling in place in the not too distant future, long before I even finish laying rail. Just waiting for an investment to come due
The layout is actually fastened directly to the wall studs so nothing is going to move short of an earthquake. Stay tuned, I seem to be on a roll of late mostly because spring is still a ways away here in Alberta, Canada
I keep watching the progress, and that unfinished space is starting to bug me as the layout continues. I know you plan on a dropped ceiling, but the longer you put it off the more difficult it will be to install.
I also notice that quite long run of ductwork, I would never run that length in flex to one register. The insulated 7-8" running the center wall is fine but you could continue the rigid duct elbowed up into the bay to the floor boot allowing a cleaner ceiling to the outside wall. What is the air flow like from it? Generally flex is run in shorter sections off a main trunk. If you feel there's no problem w/ heat/AC just box the duct/ soffit to hang the dropped ceiling on. Cleated strips of plywood to box and Dw corner beaded. Once boxed any heating issues or adding booster will require tearing into the soffit/ ceiling. A booster/ fan could be added if addtional flow is nec for that register. What's going on w/ the walls? Do you plan on finishing them Drywall etc. Strap the concrete end wall and finish? Now is the time to drywall, mud and tape. Doing so later you will need to cover the entire layout from sanding joint compound, priming and painting
One other note before you complete the area. The TJI floor joists are quite ridgid and do carry the full span by code, however w/o any blocking, strapping or other bracing material ( generally DW attached or strapping will stiffen the floor above and you will note feel the bounce under feet as you walk across. I build w/ a considerable amount of engineered lumber products, codes do vary from different araes but I will use strapping on unfinished TJI joists for this reason.
Just a few thoughts for the space before you go any further.
I know we tend to get quite excited to build a layout and get trains running, but some room prep seems in order before track is laid.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
No plans to do anything toward finishing this area of the basement... just doesn't make any financial sense!
I completed the roadbed for the "south area" from the split to the double track and along with the yard entrance and yard lead:
Some advice on the roadbed.....
On my layout I too used foam and WS roadbed.......only to find that trains make a loud noise like Lionel trains do.
I know I`m late to this party but here are a few pics of how I did my legs for my layout.
First is a pic of the leveler bolts used.
Second and third pics are the latches and hinges used.....(my layout is portable).
.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
Just a side note on walls, if anybody cares:
I found some 4X8 sheets of smooth, white-faced hardboard wallboard at HoPo. Have to glue it instead of use drywall screws and the sheets would probably have to be mounted vertically instead of sideways like you can with drywall, but might be worth investigating.
Sorry, back on topic:
Keep those update photos coming! It's always good to read about and see what other folks are doing.