I've looked at 1/2 dozen layout software packages and although I tried some of them, I didn't spend lots of effort in evaluating every facet of the program they offer.
RTSRRLayout from Atlas is free but only has parts they make. The scenery option doesn't seem to have much.
I like Anyrail quite a bit, it seems to have everything for every scale, and very intuitive to use.
I looked at Cadrail, 3D PlanIt, and 3D Railroad concept and design, and a few others that I eliminated right away.
What do you guys use? I'm a newbie and want to plan my layout ahead of time. What does Model Railroader use for their track layouts?
I have used RTS from Atlas. It's ok, but I like the looks of Anyrail. Too bad Anyrail does not seem to be available for MAC.
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queenidog I've looked at 1/2 dozen layout software packages and although I tried some of them, I didn't spend lots of effort in evaluating every facet of the program they offer. RTSRRLayout from Atlas is free but only has parts they make. The scenery option doesn't seem to have much. I like Anyrail quite a bit, it seems to have everything for every scale, and very intuitive to use. I looked at Cadrail, 3D PlanIt, and 3D Railroad concept and design, and a few others that I eliminated right away. What do you guys use? I'm a newbie and want to plan my layout ahead of time. What does Model Railroader use for their track layouts?
In all this time "checking out software", you could have likely just designed a layout the old fashioned way, pencil and paper.
I am an experianced draftsman, and have used CADD and computerized construction estimating softwares - they have their place - but for the one time custom residential work I do, hand drafting is still much faster than even the best CADD operator.
Even the simplest computer based drafting programs have high learning curves. That's great if you plan to make designing layout a business or a hobby of its own, but just to design one layout? I have better things to do than lean some computer software to do a one time task.
I have the Atlas program on my computer. I sometimes use it just to verifiy tight arrangements of turnouts. Otherwise it is a pain to use for a whole layout. And I design a few now and then for clients and friends.
Sheldon
I have been using XTrakCad v4.0.3 for some time now. I haven't learned to use all of the features yet. I picked it for cost (free), track library, support, and train operation. I had some issues early on with doing curved tracks, but I got around that problem. I had prior experience with a CAD program (TurboCAD 3D), so the basics were a short learning curve for me.
Jim - Preserving the history of the NKP Cloverleaf first subdivision.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL queenidog: I've looked at 1/2 dozen layout software packages and although I tried some of them, I didn't spend lots of effort in evaluating every facet of the program they offer. RTSRRLayout from Atlas is free but only has parts they make. The scenery option doesn't seem to have much. I like Anyrail quite a bit, it seems to have everything for every scale, and very intuitive to use. I looked at Cadrail, 3D PlanIt, and 3D Railroad concept and design, and a few others that I eliminated right away. What do you guys use? I'm a newbie and want to plan my layout ahead of time. What does Model Railroader use for their track layouts? In all this time "checking out software", you could have likely just designed a layout the old fashioned way, pencil and paper. I am an experianced draftsman, and have used CADD and computerized construction estimating softwares - they have their place - but for the one time custom residential work I do, hand drafting is still much faster than even the best CADD operator. Even the simplest computer based drafting programs have high learning curves. That's great if you plan to make designing layout a business or a hobby of its own, but just to design one layout? I have better things to do than lean some computer software to do a one time task. I have the Atlas program on my computer. I sometimes use it just to verifiy tight arrangements of turnouts. Otherwise it is a pain to use for a whole layout. And I design a few now and then for clients and friends.
queenidog: I've looked at 1/2 dozen layout software packages and although I tried some of them, I didn't spend lots of effort in evaluating every facet of the program they offer. RTSRRLayout from Atlas is free but only has parts they make. The scenery option doesn't seem to have much. I like Anyrail quite a bit, it seems to have everything for every scale, and very intuitive to use. I looked at Cadrail, 3D PlanIt, and 3D Railroad concept and design, and a few others that I eliminated right away. What do you guys use? I'm a newbie and want to plan my layout ahead of time. What does Model Railroader use for their track layouts?
I'm in full agreement with Sheldon.
For a quick estimation of fit, nothing beats John Armstrong's squares method, and a table showing how many squares various track arrangements take.
Model Railroad Planning 2011 came with a booklet that discussed Armstrong's squares and laying out turnouts and curves by hand on graph paper.
Like Sheldon, I use the Atlas RTS to lay out tight track arrangements to see how much space they actually take. Since I'm not afraid to hand lay turnouts or hack up commercial ones, I know if it fits in RTS, I can make it fit on the layout. RTS has the easiest learning curve of the free software.
The other free package is XtrkCad, which runs on Windows, Linux, and Mac (with windows manager installed). I've never really gotten comfortable with XtrkCad, despite using Primavera, MS Project, Visio, and other major software packages at work. XtrkCad is very powerful, and has volunteers that keep every conceivable track library up to date. But it does have a real learning curve.
Fred W
Add another vote for using wetware, rather than softwear.
Unless you are going to do something as a commercial, "Build to Government spec," venture, you will inevitably discover that the paper plan isn't perfect, no matter how arrived at. Somehow or other, that perfect picture on the screen always seems to come up short (or a size too long) when translated to track on roadbed.
My own layout design goes, size things up in Armstrong squares, sketch track arrangements on quadrille paper, then lay them out full size on card stock. The card stock ends up as permanent track templates between the ties and the ballast form (which, in my case, is carved-to-shape fan-fold underlayment.)
Since I hand-lay specialwork in place, I am not constrained by the numbered frogs and standard geometry put on the screen by the software package. In fact, I would consider that feature alone too limiting for practical use.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with track laid to metric units)
Like you I am a newbee. I have been using Anyrail for the last 10 or 12 months to design my around the room shelf layout in HO as I read and learn what my RR needs or don't need according to my preferences. I don't have the skill required to do it with pencil and paper, Any rail has taught me many things that can or can't be done with HO track. That said, I recommend Anyrail, I didn't find it hard to learn to use it and I am confident my track plan will fit the space I have.
jerrold
Some of the other posters have a point. If you're going to hand-lay your track, then the software is probably too limiting to use.
If you're planning to use sectional or flex track, I think the computer helps keep you honest. For a long time, I had a set of plastic templates for use on graph paper, but if I hadn't had that, I would have been at a loss to draw an accurate turnout, or making sure that small curved segment really is 22 degrees.
I too would recommend Anyrail as having a very shallow learning curve, which neatly avoids the objection to taking the time to learn something that you're only going to use once. Using it once is kind of a skewed view anyway, because you'll likely tweak your layout over and over before you decide on a final design, and for my money, software makes it much easier to change a small portion of a layout (save each file as a different name, and you can keep all your old ones).
You might also be like me and use it to play around with designs for other people, too.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I myself use 3rd PlanIt. I like it but it does have a learning curve associated with it. But I can say that there are several support groups on Yahoo and the developer is a really nice guy named Randy who works very hard to make sure all his users are happy and satisfied with the program. And he's very approachable if you need help, or have suggestions for new features.
John
Hi again queenidog:
I'm not quite sure by your comments if 3Rd PlanIt was one of the programs that you rejected, but I wanted to let you know my thoughts about it.
One of the main concerns expressed in this forum about CAD programs is that they may not accurately portray the actual dimensions of things like turnouts for example. They will let you design the 'perfect' track plan but in reality it won't fit in the space suggested by the program. I did a mock up of some rather complicated connecting track and discovered that 3Rd PlanIt actually gives you a little room to play with when drawing turnouts (Peco in my case).
In addition, it allows me to quickly correct mistakes in my original plan. As I learned more about operations and function (thanks largely to this forum) I was able to go back and redesign some very problematic track i.e. a totally disfunctional yard (no lead track, no arrival/departure track etc. etc. - but it sure looked good in my naive eyes when I first drew it up!).
I also like the fact that I can create very accurate renditions of scratch built structures to see how they will fit into the layout.
I like the ability to immediately see the radii of curves as soon as you draw them. You can set your minimum required radii and as soon as you go below that limit the line turns red and you know it will not fit. It will even create easements in the curves automatically if you wish.
The 3 dimensional view option is neat. I think it gives a very real sense of what the layout will look like.
Finally, I have to say that it has plain and simply been fun to play with. I think it is well worth the cost for entertainment value alone.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
It really does not matter what program you intend to use, all of them have a learning curve. How steep that is, depends on your ability to explore the features. I have tried RTS, XtrkCaD, AnyRail and WinTrack and I like RTS the most, although getting acquainted with it takes some time.
As other posters have stated, CAD programs are accurate enough to give you a good idea of your track plan and do the sanity check, but not good enough to be used as a template for the reality of your layout. That´s why I would not spend any money on a CAD program and go for the freebie programs.
Just an example of what can be done in RTS (+MSPaint):
Thanks all for your input. this is important stuff for me.
I'm quite adept at learning these programs since I've been involved, even taught, computer theory for 25 years, starting on mini-computers ("mini" is a misnomer since these things stood 5 feet high and weighed 500 lbs. Oh yeah, 1 Meg of memory was a whole lot, and boostrapping was done via switches). I've also had lots of drafting programs: Orcad, PCad, Corel, TurboCad, AutoCad, etc many of them using plotters for output.
I've also learned that having a design, any design on computer is a whole lot easier change than a hard copy drawing. The room I'm building for my train layout was put on computer very quickly (using Visio 2010) where I could move all my cabinets, benches and tools around BEFORE actually doing it. I've already changed the room dimensions and layout about 10 times.
Anyrail is my choice if I buy it, otherwise Atlas RTSRRLayout is what I will use.
Thanks guys.
Check out RailModeller Software if you have a Mac
http://www.railmodeller.com/
trainluver Check out RailModeller Software if you have a Mac http://www.railmodeller.com/
Or Empire Express: http://www.haddonsoftware.com/
Dante
I recently bought anyrail and like it.
Springfield PA
I get a kick out of people that are in the dark ages. Sure, p and p drawings have there place and are really great for the 1st stage of figuring out 'what will fit where'. Draw your 'squares' and test fit curves. Now that you have an idea of what might work, grab one of the free drawing packages and spend a little time just opening and dealing with some of the menu stuff. Get used to it a little bit. From the packages that I have seen, there are extensive help menus and can guide you through the drawing process.
No matter what you use to draw, you are making a small version of what you want to build and it will be prone to mistakes. Don't let them kid you, even the best draftsman make mistakes on paper. Paper drawings have only two choices when that happens ... get out that big eraser and see if you can erase only what you want ... or ... start over with a new piece of paper. Did you remember to sharpen you pencil or buy lead? Anyway, say you got that part you wanted to change erased perfect without any holes in the paper. Now you have to *redraw* that part again in the correct place make those changes you messed up in the first place.
With a drawing package you can edit the part that is messed up and not have to start over. Say that in the middle of all of this you decide that you want 24 inch radius curves in a couple of places that you already have drawn 26 inch radius. Guess what, that paper guy probably just went home. You on the other hand go in and change the properties of those curves to 24 inche radius. You then can move the tangent sections to align with the new curves. Done deal in a few minutes. Paper, still erasing are we???
All in all you are better off using a drawing program because it is easier to deal with your drawing on the computer. Change is a simple matter of a few mouse clicks and you are good to go. There is a learning curve with everything .. so get busy and learn.
ctclibby
Oh, and to create layouts I have drawn paper, used ACAD ( years ago ), CadRail, RTS and now XtrkCad. To me, XtrkCad is by far the better choice.
Todd Hackett
Libby, Montana 59923
I take only pictures then leave footprints on railroad property that I know is not mine, although I treat it as such...
Any CAD system won´t do the design part for you, and unless you have a precise design in your mind, a rough p & p sketch will help you drawing your plan in a CAD tool.
But what do I know - I have been preparing track plans for only 47 years ( using CAD since a little over 10 years).
Thanks all. I've got demo copy of Anyrail and a free copy of Atlas RTSRRLayout. Unfortunately while they may be good at the layouts, they aren't so good with the benchwork, so for this I'm using Visio. I had the room dimesions, then made the benchwork (with curves rather than polygons like the others offer), checked out where I need supports, and measured distances between benches (since mine is a walkin and goes all around the room) to make sure there was enough space. So I have the " base layout", now I just have to put tracks on it.
FYI, I drew PandP for years, piping, isometric and electronic diagrams and PCBs, but nothing beats CAD. Using Visio, I changed my design about 10 times already...try and to that with CAD.
ctclibby I get a kick out of people that are in the dark ages....Now you have to *redraw* that part again in the correct place make those changes you messed up in the first place.....Say that in the middle of all of this you decide that you want 24 inch radius curves in a couple of places that you already have drawn 26 inch radius..... ctclibby Oh, and to create layouts I have drawn paper, used ACAD ( years ago ), CadRail, RTS and now XtrkCad. To me, XtrkCad is by far the better choice.
I get a kick out of people that are in the dark ages....Now you have to *redraw* that part again in the correct place make those changes you messed up in the first place.....Say that in the middle of all of this you decide that you want 24 inch radius curves in a couple of places that you already have drawn 26 inch radius.....
Your underlying assumption that everybody needs an accurate plan is leading you to a false conclusion. Form having worked in commercial construction and boat building, I have learned that completing a drawing beyond a certain point is a waste of effort. No one builds to the accuracy that the software is capable of - so why go to the trouble of detailing out an accurate plan in the 1st place. Much better to save the effort for proper as-built drawings.
If you are designing for somebody else, then a detailed plan is needed. But for personal use, a rough fit check is good enough because of the changes that come in the actual build process. And the more experience you have actually building layouts, the better feel you already have for what will work and what won't work. Even without that "feel", planning out full size on the benchwork or floor is better than hours at the computer.
As for your example of changing the radius - if 26" fits in the space, I know 24" will. Why would I bother redoing the plan for the smaller radius? And I should already know before I fire up the computer whether or not I've got space to swing the 26" curves in the first place. I already know that for a 90- degree curve of 26" radius, I need a square 28.5" on each side. 26" of radius, 1/2" for the easement, and 2" minimum form the edge.
But if it floats your boat to plan your layout in detail on the computer, by all means have at it. A few of the dark agers (like me) prefer to spend as little time designing the layout on the computer as possible so I can have the time for other model railroading activities. The only justification that I can come up with for actually completing a track plan in RTS or XtrkCad is to share it with others. But my plans are rarely worth the effort to share.
my thoughts, your choices
To the pencil and paper guys:
I have already put my 2 cents worth in about how much I have enjoyed 3Rd PlanIt but in deference to your methods, when I went to make my control panel diagrams I found it easier to do with a pencil!
Ha! Guess I'm bi!
I use 3rd planit, and after testing several programs I found it to be the best. Maybe for someone without CAD experience it is quite difficult, but the learning curve isn't that steep and the manual is very thorough and easy to understand.
ctclibby I get a kick out of people that are in the dark ages... ...No matter what you use to draw, you are making a small version of what you want to build and it will be prone to mistakes... ...All in all you are better off using a drawing program because it is easier to deal with your drawing on the computer. Change is a simple matter of a few mouse clicks and you are good to go. There is a learning curve with everything .. so get busy and learn. ctclibby Oh, and to create layouts I have drawn paper, used ACAD ( years ago ), CadRail, RTS and now XtrkCad. To me, XtrkCad is by far the better choice.
I get a kick out of people that are in the dark ages...
...No matter what you use to draw, you are making a small version of what you want to build and it will be prone to mistakes...
...All in all you are better off using a drawing program because it is easier to deal with your drawing on the computer. Change is a simple matter of a few mouse clicks and you are good to go. There is a learning curve with everything .. so get busy and learn.
Hi:
Just because you have found a computerized drafting & design program a help doesn't mean that everyone will either need one or want one.
The learning curves are steeper than stated by the designers, there are bugs in all of them, and they are *much* more expensive than paper, pencil & the largest eraser you can find. Oh, and don't forget that you need to have computer to use one, so add that to the cost.
Add to that the fact that designing a layout is not the same as building & operating it.
I use 3rd Planit, but paper & pencil work for the simpler designs.
-Ed
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