Antag2002 how do mi upload anyrail stuff here?
how do mi upload anyrail stuff here?
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread for your design, instead of hijacking this one?
To upload an image showing your yard, convert the plan to an image (a jpg), and upload the jpg to some photo hosting sport (e.g. photobucket) .
You can do that either by exporting the plan as an image (if Anyrail has a function for that), or by taking a screen shot of your screen.
How to do this has been described a couple of hundred times in various posts. Search for "how to upload pictures" or "photobucket" or variants of that.
Smile, Stein
HHPATH56Hi Brad, The following photos show my 7 track compound turnouts which feed from two curved drill track turnouts from my mainline. By using double-slip switches one can have access to all 7 tracks without having the switcher have to tie up the mainline. By having the mainline overpass the yard, one can have 7 equal length tracks in the yard. All the tracks are accessible to each other, and the long drill tracks allow one to form long consists within the yard. Bob
Very nice.
I also like that bascule bridge in the background. Can you post a close up shot?
You better get a track crew to clean up after that tornado that came through your yard. LOL
Rich
Alton Junction
Antag2002 if you want to see a pic of the yard i have drawn up let me know
if you want to see a pic of the yard i have drawn up let me know
By all means, post it. We would love to see a photo of your yard.
Please bare in mind i am new to this as well, I am currently working on planning a layout myself for operations. I have come to a realization through reading as much as i can that if i want my longest train to be comprized of 10 cars of a 6" avg length each the space i will need for a proper classification yard with all the fixins i will need around 17' X 2' if you are using all # 6 turnouts
this will be the arrangment for the max amount of cars per ladder rungShortest = 42" 7 cars 54" 9 cars 66" 11 cars 78" 13 cars 90" 15 carsso that would give room for 55 cars to be stored and remmmber i said classification yard so cut that near half to make room to work the trains without frustration so your lookin at around 25 to 26 cars give or take for busy times. with the space ate up by but not used by the actual classification yard would leave room to make an engine servicing area.SO i guess what im trying to say is even tho it sounds like some of these guys just not giving you what you want to hear it could just be you cant do it the way you see it in your mind.having figured this out myself i am now stuck im my design stage untill i figure out whats more important to me right now the operations or running trainsif you want to see a pic of the yard i have drawn up let me knowCheers
hi,
yes it might sound harsh.................
but i am rather serious, IMAO Brad is not really giving the information asked...and i am not sure his investment will result in a great layout.
The yard design he took, is needed if switching the yard is blocking mainline traffic. If he has a to short drill track he will still be blocking the main often; it is not cherry picking.
I talked about possible surprises, if he is not really specific about the cars and engines he will use, radii and switch-numbers might be to small. Not only in the yard; he is building bench-work already, i have no idea at all about the remainder of his layout and the pin-wheel arrangement takes additional width, does he have that? Apparently yes, though it would be nice to know before going to the drawing board
I do not know if his layout is build against walls, it was asked him too BTW, his tracks are to close to it; and sorry Brad, this is not meant to drive you away........
And one of the issues is the number of operators; i understood he has two sons, they might prefer a double track main, so both can run a train. I love a very short single track section; to keep them awake and let them experience a lot of near collisions. When one of them wants to do some yard work, the other can use the free second main; no use for dedicated yard-lead..............
I hope you understand why all these questions were asked........without knowing your situation and aims i can only give some general information.
Paul
Looking good Brad,Mine will be very similar except no intermodel track(50s)and it 16x2 instead of 20x3...I"ll watching your progress..Jerry
Paulus Jas hi Brad a minor tweak? why not simply post the new design, your playing hide and seek. But more important however, the idea about the design was not mine at all. It's the way to go when the yard switcher and mainline trains have to operate independent of each other, not necessary at all if only one train at a time is run, or the second train is on another part of your layout for quite some time. And i told you before, Stein too, without knowing more about your layout any real discussion is impossible. If things are going over your head, just ask and answer to questions asked. BTW be prepared for some surprises, paul
hi Brad
a minor tweak? why not simply post the new design, your playing hide and seek. But more important however, the idea about the design was not mine at all. It's the way to go when the yard switcher and mainline trains have to operate independent of each other, not necessary at all if only one train at a time is run, or the second train is on another part of your layout for quite some time.
And i told you before, Stein too, without knowing more about your layout any real discussion is impossible.
If things are going over your head, just ask and answer to questions asked.
BTW be prepared for some surprises,
paul
Paul,
Sorry, but I think you are being a bit harsh. It seems to me that BDP has been pretty forthcoming with what he is trying to do and, in fact has essentially adopted your plan. True, as Stein pointed out, it may not be a formal double mainline but we all get the basic idea. And, yes, the resulting plan still have the shortcoming of the switching lead probably being too short. But hey, what about selective compresssion?
Your help has been invaluable to not only BDP but to the rest of us. This has been an extremely informative and useful thread. I just don't want to see BDP get turned off because of the need to be more familiar with yard operation and terminology. After all, that is the title of the thread, Help Designing a Yard.
I didnt make that minor tweak at all. I got it to work like the design you posted.
Sorry I havent given all the info about my layout. It is modern era modeled in the midwest with grain facilities, ethanol plant, and other features in the midwest. Basically I wanted my yard to store cars, so I wouldnt have to take them on and off, and be able to do some switching. I have been out of model railroading for over 20 years so I am just getting used to the terminology again, so sorry for not offering more.
I am still putting things in AnyRail for the layout but I am not done. Between family and trying to build bench work and officiating High School Basketball I dont get much done other than at work. I have a job that has seasonal busy times and other times it is slow, so that allows me to work on this at work.
Here is a pic of what I have done so far. I have the yard done. I implemented the yard Paul posted and added a longer spur on the left side for longer trains if need be. I put the inter model yard where it is because that is really the only other place I can put it because I dont have room anywhere else on the layout but I wanted an inter model yard so that is where it goes. I know it may not be practical but will work for me.
So this is what I have now.
Thanks, I dont think I could say it any better. I have never worked or even known anyone to work in a switching yard and my railroad terminology is not very good, so trying to implement some of the things that are said just goes over my head.
As far as the yard goes, I did get the diagram that Paul posted to work with 1 minor tweak and it looks good and I am going to implement it into my layout.
I have about 60% of my bench work completed, so I need to finish that. Then I need to paint it to help hold out the moisture to keep warping to a very minimum and then I will be laying out my track to make sure what I have in my AnyRail program will work in the Layout.
Thanks for all the info and sorry if I frustrated some along the way but sometimes things dont come as easy to one as they do for another.
Brad
I do think that the OP is doing his homework in one regard, and that is using track software to plan his layout. But, like many of us, BDP may be struggling with terminology and the very nature of yard planning. For example, in my eariler diagram, I referred to one track as my switching lead when, in fact, it is probably an arrival/departure track, although in the past I have also been told that it is not even a true A/D track.
If, like me, one has never worked in a classification or staging yard, it is difficult to understand the logistics of separate tracks, and connecting tracks, for operational purposes.
Try as I may, the purpose of a drill track, switching lead, approach and departure track, and the interaction of these tracks with the staging and classification tracks is hard to grasp and remember.
This link that Paul posted
http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html (Bisguier-yarddesign)
is very helpful, and so is the Kalmbach book on freight yards, but reading about it and putting it into actual operation on a layout are two very different things.
Springfield PA
I am doing myself a favor and planning it out on paper and in AnyRail. I have my version that I posted and I am implementing the one Paul posted. I will probably go with the one Paul has posted and just add a couple more of storage track.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Thanks for the kind words.. Much appreciated.
Do yourself a favour: Plan it out! The worst thing anyone can do is approach a potential project with a gleam in their eye and nothing more. Asf yourself what is it you are trying to accomplish, what features you wold like, and then start drawing it out. Pencils and paper are a lot cheaper than man-hours and wasted materials.
EF-3 Yellowjacket
BDP So the turnouts in the curves are they curved turnouts or are they straight? I did take your advice and moved my turnouts into the yard on both ends down to allow more room for possible train building. But I didnt put crossovers from the #1 main line to the #2 main line. I didnt because I plan on using the #1 for any passing freight and that I could tie up the #2 main with any other trains. Right now I have 18 turnouts in my yard and the pic you posted has 12. If I keep my yard I would have to order only 4 more turnouts and 2 of those are the curved turnouts so I wouldnt be out much $$ if I kept mine, but I may try to put your in AnyRail and see what happens.
So the turnouts in the curves are they curved turnouts or are they straight? I did take your advice and moved my turnouts into the yard on both ends down to allow more room for possible train building. But I didnt put crossovers from the #1 main line to the #2 main line. I didnt because I plan on using the #1 for any passing freight and that I could tie up the #2 main with any other trains.
Right now I have 18 turnouts in my yard and the pic you posted has 12. If I keep my yard I would have to order only 4 more turnouts and 2 of those are the curved turnouts so I wouldnt be out much $$ if I kept mine, but I may try to put your in AnyRail and see what happens.
Brad --
It is your layout. If you so desire, you obviously can rush out and buy even more switches and proceed to lay track, without spend any more time and effort on understanding yard design.
Me, I would recommend perhaps spending a little more time and effort on actually reading and trying to understand/apply the advice you are given.
Paul's drawing says, fairly clearly, "all switches are #6s". He later specified Atlas #6. That, perhaps surprisingly , apparently was supposed to mean that all turnouts are straight, Atlas #6 turnouts. Not "some turnouts in this plan are curved".
Is the thing you are not understanding how you can use straight turnouts to make a pinwheel ladder?
Like this:
The purpose of the crossovers from the main to the yard in Paul's suggestion has been explained to you. You seemingly still have not quite understood the significance of what you have been told.
You keep talking about a #1 main and #2 main. But every sketch you have posted seemingly shows something else - one track (presumably a main) running along the outer edge of the layout segment below, with a *siding* - not a second main - coming off that track at far left and far right:
Do you have a not drawn #1 main on the outside of the outermost one shown in every sketch you have posted, or is your "#2 main" the double ended siding branching off from the outermost track in the sketch above ?
Stein
AnyRail works great for me. I was hesitant to pay for it, but in the end I am glad I did that way I know what should work with my layout and bench work.
You guys are allright ,thanks lots a help..Jerry
Paulus Jas hi Jerry you have to foul the main, the cross-over i added from the yard-lead to the main will help a lot speeding up things.
hi Jerry
you have to foul the main, the cross-over i added from the yard-lead to the main will help a lot speeding up things.
Not only that - there are also several other good idea for making efficient switching yards shown on Paul's track plan.
Paul pointed out the crossover that allows access from the switching lead to the main.
The other crossover up there at far top left makes it possible to have train arriving from or departing towards the left on the main without stopping classification, since that crossover allows trains from the main to come into or out of the A/D tracks without crossing over the switching lead.
One of the class tracks is double ended - so it can also function as a third A/D track or a runaround when necessary.
Only two changes I would have made are:
1) Longer lead on the left - as Paul pointed out. Allows switching longer cuts of cars without fouling the main.
2) Making a "mini lead" at the far right end of the yard - long enough to hold an engine consist plus maybe a caboose/shoving platform (if cabooses or shoving platforms are used on this layout), without fouling the main. Would allow engines consists to cut off and run around without interfering with the main.
BIG JERR Stein; Im not trying to highjack,but you raise a question in me with "fouling the main" ,I do get the reason an importance ,but what if a major manufacfuer wanted to build a factory just north of Brads yard ,say where the backwall is . how does Brads railroad pick-up and deliver to this factory without "fouling the main" or atleast crossing it from the Yard ?
Stein; Im not trying to highjack,but you raise a question in me with "fouling the main" ,I do get the reason an importance ,but what if a major manufacfuer wanted to build a factory just north of Brads yard ,say where the backwall is . how does Brads railroad pick-up and deliver to this factory without "fouling the main" or atleast crossing it from the Yard ?
They would have to pull out on the main to serve industries along the back wall there. It is not necessarily a problem to use the main for switching -in situations where there isn't a lot of traffic on the main.
You can e.g. do a yard like this:
This H0 scale plan segment is inspired by tracks in the small Texas town of Shiner in 1922, and cannot be switched without using the main.
But if traffic is low - e.g. if there is just one operator on the layout, or only a few operators, working different area of the layout, that is not necessarily a problem - then your local switching the town will just have to clear the main when a superior train is expected.
Also, having just a handful of tracks like this is more than enough to do meets, serve local industries, have passing trains drop of blocks of cars to be handled by another train (or even another railroad), and quite a few other things.
If, on the other hand, you will have six or seven people handling three trains and a switcher at the same time, with one train needing to pass the yard, one train arriving in the yard and one train departing from the yard at the same time as the last person is sorting cars for the next train, which will need to be ready for departure in one hour (15 minutes of real time on a 1:4 clock), then it becomes important to be able to continue sorting cars into blocks while trains passes on the main and arrives or departs.
If your yard and mainline is busy enough, it might even make sense to have a small "belt line" or industry spur leading from the end of the yard over or under the main into the manufacturing plant.
So it all depends on how you plan to _use_ the yard, and how much traffic you are planning.
But classification is a continuous job, it would foul the main very often on a pike with lots of traffic, like most model railroads. An industry is often only served a couple a times a week. Also real yards are compromises. On busy (model)railroads the lead track prevents blocking the main for to long a time.
steinjr BDP: Here is my second version of the yard I started. I made it better to expand to 20' instead of 18'. Looks okay for staging. Leads too short for switching without fouling the main. Stein
BDP: Here is my second version of the yard I started. I made it better to expand to 20' instead of 18'.
Here is my second version of the yard I started. I made it better to expand to 20' instead of 18'.
Looks okay for staging. Leads too short for switching without fouling the main.
Stein; Im not trying to highjack,but you raise a question in me with "fouling the main" ,I do get the reason an importance ,but what if a major manufacfuer wanted to build a factory just north of Brads yard ,say where the backwall is . how does Brads railroad pick-up and deliver to this factory without "fouling the main" or atleast crossing it from the Yard ?... this will help me Jerry
BDP Here is my second version of the yard I started. I made it better to expand to 20' instead of 18'.
Looking good, Brad.
Keep us posted on your progress and include some photos.
hi brad
atlas #6
I do like that one. Gives you the double ended yard but then gives you the dead ends for storage like you said.
Do you by chance know what type of turnouts that are used in that so I could plug them into a design in AnyRail? If not I can print it out and try to copy it freehand. The yard I am working on is coming along nicely also. The extra 2' is helping out. I am able to keep the curves at the end at 24*.