I apologize if I am plagiarizing but a recent post stated:
"Some modelers claim that foam over plywood is quieter than either foam or plywood alone. Since I haven't experimented much with either alternative, I can neither confirm nor deny that."
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
As I begin my new layout and along with the advent of locomotives with sound - what is the quietest roadbed possible (but inexpensive). I would be interested if anyone has experience with the foam over plywood or what other recommendations are out there?
Many thanx!
In my opinion, the quietest is 1/2 inch plywood sub-roadbed with 1/2 inch Homasote on that, then WS foam pre-shaped roadbed on that (glued down) then the track, also glued down. Ballast glue should be matt-medium. This was very quiet on my last layout. White glue dries hard and transmits noise, bypassing the soft qualities of the WS foam roadbed.
My present layout is 1 inch blue foam on luan and it is noisy. The WS foam pre-shaped roadbed helps, but not much. Not at all like my previous layout.
Our club layout is 3/4 inch plywood sub-roadbed with cork roadbed. It is quiet also.
Solid is better.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I have 2 layers of 2" foam over 1/4" plywood, set into box frames (sides are 1x4, crossmembers are 1x3). Track is on cork on top of that, and I don't think it's noisy at all. My revious layout was a single layer of 2" foam on top of a box frame (completely on top, no inset liek this one) with Woodland Scenics foam roadbed under thr track, and I didn't think that one was loud at all either.
Other say the same thign is way too loud. I'm not sure what they are hearing - all I hear is the ssssssss of the metal wheels on the track, and htere is no wierd amplification of the mechanism sounds in my locos, so when I run the one I have with sound all I hear is the sound, followed by the sound of the metal wheels on the cars it's pulling.
In both cases the roadbed was fastened to the foam with caulk, and the track was fastened to the roadbed with caulk.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
What does "WS" stand for?
AF1963 What does "WS" stand for?
Woodland Scenics
Alton Junction
gandydancer19 In my opinion, the quietest is 1/2 inch plywood sub-roadbed with 1/2 inch Homasote on that, then WS foam pre-shaped roadbed on that (glued down) then the track, also glued down. Ballast glue should be matt-medium. This was very quiet on my last layout. White glue dries hard and transmits noise, bypassing the soft qualities of the WS foam roadbed. My present layout is 1 inch blue foam on luan and it is noisy. The WS foam pre-shaped roadbed helps, but not much. Not at all like my previous layout. Our club layout is 3/4 inch plywood sub-roadbed with cork roadbed. It is quiet also. Solid is better.
While I generally agree with using matte medium rather than white glue for ballasting, and while it is true that dried matte medium is quieter than white glue, it is still noisier to secure the ballast with matte medium than if the ballast were not secured at all. In my experience, dried matte medium transmits noise from the moving trains even though the noise is less offensive than when using white glue.
Rich
P.S. I should add that my track is on Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed on top of a 1/2" plywood surface for what that is worth.
MR's special issue How To Build Realistic Reliable Track has an article on it.
Enjoy
Paul
Thanks guys-
In years past I had tried some blue foam roadbed and the noise was so loud I couldn't believe it was a small HO engine and a few freight cars.
One thing I picked up on from the comments - glue vs nailing track down. If you are spiking the ties down to plywood then the sound will transfer I believe. Glue is better and quieter.
The matte vs white glue???? I think I will experiment with both. I have never worked with matte.
On my layout I have 2" foam over open grid. 1 1/2" foam on 1/2" plywood. Spline on plywood. Spline on open grid. Track on cement roadbed on cement board and track running along a steel stud. The difference in sound and volume does not change that much as a train moves from one to the other. The one exception is the cement roadbed on cement board. In this case all you can hear is the wheels on the rails. Otherwise it is dead quiet.
As far as all the others go the change from one to the other is more of a change in frequency not so much a change in volume though it is there but slight at best. I think more sound comes from the wheels on the rails than most people think. I also think the acoustics of the room play a larger role in noise than what the benchwork does.
I had my old 10' x 5' plywood pacific in the family room with ceramic tile floors and then had it in the carpeted dining room. There was a huge difference in the noise level yet it was the same layout.
In closing, on my current layout with many different materials used at various spots around the layout. You cannot tell what kind of benchwork the train is on once the sound is turned on. All you can hear is the engines.
Someday I'll make a video of some loco's going around my layout with their sound off, and you can hear the sound difference with the same points of reference. Just my .
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I'm running 2 inch foam over half inch plywood. Wheel noise stays on the track and doesn't transfer throughout the layout. The foam also allows you more flexibility to carve sections away to add scenery detail.
Springfield PA
Brent-
Thanks for your comments - I think you have summarized very well. I can't wait to see the video - hurry up!
Thanks again
One other question. When you are using the foam over plywood are you still using cork roadbed with the foam?
Thanks
Georgia TrainsOne other question. When you are using the foam over plywood are you still using cork roadbed with the foam? Thanks
I am using cork on all the foam. It is stuck down with caulk. I think caulk does help with sound dampening in most applications.
you might want to check this out:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/164593.aspx?PageIndex=1
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
I've come to suspect that the key to my own quiet roadbed is the latex caulk I use to fasten everything together. It remains rubbery even when cured, so vibrations don't transfer from layer to layer.
Even flex laid on thin extruded foam (fan-fold underlayment) caulked inside a steel stud rain gutter fashion is astoundingly quiet.
I wish I could say the same for the gears in my ancient motive power!
Instead of using matte medium to glue the ballast, use Future floor polish (or Kleer).
It may sound strange, but it has been tried by many more than me.
It is very nice to use, I tried it on my new layout and it is more quiet than the matte medium in my opinion. Another advantage is that it doesn´t float the ballast all over the place either.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
Hi I use foam (WS- Woodland Scenics) trackbed over wood, glued down with wallpaper glue.
I get good sound from my sound equipped loco, the only other noise is straight back from freight car wheel to rail contact (this can be likened to a hiss or jet engine depending on speed)
Graffen-
The suggestion of floor polish is very interesting. This MR Forum is the coolest place. It is amazing the many ideas that are shared.
Before the Internet we just all bumped round like loose fish occasionally finding a useful morsel of information.
Thanks to all and to the many things to yet learn in the future.
Would you explain the method you use to glue the ballast with Future floor polish? Do you use it straight from the bottle or do you thin it, and if so, with what, how much, etc.? Do you use an eye dropper, spray, or ? Do you use the floor polish to glue roadbed to homosote/foam, or homosote/foam to plywood? Do you use cork roadbed or WS? Any other things we should know? This use of floor polish sounds interesting. - Lloyd
I think there's truth to this. If latex caulk is not THE key, it is certainly A key. I have caulked WS and cork to extruded foam and never had a problem with train noise. I've not tried track caulked directly onto foam but I might try an experiment, just to compare. My Athearn coffee grinders on the other hand...
In my experience, the thicker the plywood the less the sound amplification.
The wheels make a huge difference too. I have two otherwise identical Blue Box boxcars, one of which was equipped with metal wheels, the other which still has the plastic (probably the first BB kit I ever assembled - like many people I never painted the weight, so this car needs a little work before I put it on the layout). Rolling the cars back and forth, the plastic wheel one is almost silent, the metal wheels have that ssssssssssss sound as it rolls.
Denser materials do not vibrate as much at the annoying frequencies - I had a layout preciously that I built on shelf brackets, it used the high density particle board - the stuff that doesn't really look like it's made of particles, it's VERY heavy, it's hard to cut (I had the pieces pre-cut), but the layout was pretty quiet with nothing more than cork on top of this board. Likewise my test track, it's just some track sitting on cork on top of one of those Rubbermade laminated shelf pieces - quite quiet. Not that my 2 layer foam plus plywood is loud, certainly not in any objectional way.