Well, my base frames were built over 10 years ago (L girders with joists, 8'x3' overall) with cheap pine 1x3 furring strips, liquid nails and drywall screws. They've supported three different layouts, and always did so admirably. I braced them adequately to provide a stable base, and they've been around long enough to be plenty dried out and stable.
I'm something of a carpenter myself, and have done a lot of trim and cabinet work and I agree, there are some things you just don't do. But on the layout, it's what's above the benchwork where "neatness counts!" I've just always felt that fooling around with birch plywood and expensive hardware etc. is overkill, and throwing good money away that could be put to much better use on locomotives and scenery.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Lefty
JSperan I guess I learned to be a "hardware snob" from my father, a master carpenter, cabinet maker in his own right. He would be embarrassed to build ANYTHING using drywall screws. He's passed on now but I can still hear him saying it with a sneer...DRYWALL SCREWS?! For myself, I take pride in doing quality work when I build anything. To use a drywall screw on something I took the time to build negates the time put into it to make it the right way in the first place. Beside that, having to pick up two screws that fell off the driver for every one I drove in is a huge waste of time. Why would anyone go out and buy clear pine, birch plywood, and other excellent quality lumber and then screw it together with fasteners is beyond me, but to each his own.
I guess I learned to be a "hardware snob" from my father, a master carpenter, cabinet maker in his own right. He would be embarrassed to build ANYTHING using drywall screws. He's passed on now but I can still hear him saying it with a sneer...DRYWALL SCREWS?!
For myself, I take pride in doing quality work when I build anything. To use a drywall screw on something I took the time to build negates the time put into it to make it the right way in the first place.
Beside that, having to pick up two screws that fell off the driver for every one I drove in is a huge waste of time.
Why would anyone go out and buy clear pine, birch plywood, and other excellent quality lumber and then screw it together with fasteners is beyond me, but to each his own.
Sheesh, lighten up Francis.....
After following this thread, like others, I get amazed at how some things can get off on a tangent or even derailed. (pun)
There is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top.
Also, a need for building either quality benchwork or high quality benchwork will be determined by the location of the layout, whether humidity conditions vary greatly, or if the layout is mobile, etc. Screwing into 3/4 ply or MDF, rather than 1/2 inch material, can be a problem as well.
- Douglas
I had a blast designing and building L girder under my two-deck layout (and the L girder supported slot car track). I use old fashioned wood screws because I didn't know anything better was available, so each hole was drilled with an oversize for the shank, and a countersink for the flat head. If I broke a three-stage drill I just used two electric drills with a different bit in each. I used traditional slotted head wood screws when available, and Phillips when Lowe's was out of slotted head. My father was a mechanical engineer and wooden boat builder, so I learned to respect (and work with) slotted heads. It is possible to screw them in without the blade slipping out! I hate that cam-out action of Phillips, which is intended for throwaway mass produced consumer items, not anything "real". The Robertsons look great but they were not available. I tried a Makita drywall power screw driver but it ate out the Phillips heads; I can do much cleaner work by hand, control the torque better, and don't mind the blister in my palm.
The L girders themselves were glued and nailed, as I never understood why anyone would waste screws for that, or go to the trouble of unscrewing them after the glue dries. #2 pine is expensive, but it is a joy to work with. I used ash risers (3/4" x 1/2") to support certain roadbeds that are close to an aisle and may get whacked by heavy things going in and out of the basement, because ash is really strong. We have lots of 3/4" ash T&G because we floored our house with it.
HobbyDrwait til you try one that uses a star drive. I get them in 1-1/2" and 2" lengths, and they even come with the star drive bit. They are coated with a smooth gold finish, so there is no worry about staining.
wait til you try one that uses a star drive. I get them in 1-1/2" and 2" lengths, and they even come with the star drive bit. They are coated with a smooth gold finish, so there is no worry about staining.
I recently made pool deck repairs with these "newer Star Deck Screws." Most of the project was primarily to screw down warped wood, and they were very effective. Countersinking for the screw head was needed as the outdoor wood had cured for apx. ten years. A joy to work with!
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
DoughlessThere is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top.
I agree. This isn't exactly one of those Norm Abrams New Yankee Workshop projects. I used drywall screws and they worked fine. I'm sure decking screws or whatever current hi-tech screw would work great too. Why make such a fuss over which one to use?
So what's next, comparing clothing styles when working on your layout?
I've learned a lot from this thread, and it is always interesting to see how many ways we can build. I practice snobbery as well as slobbery (a little of both every day!), so I don't mind the opinions, because I can see it both ways.
I have no problems holding the drywall screws on the bit. I have a magnetic bit and it holds great.
Springfield PA
Phillips head drywall screws are actually better for drywall than Robertson because the square recess takes more filler to cover and usually shrinks in and needs to be covered again, in my experience, but maybe I'm a lousy drywaller (no maybe about it really!). :)
I haven't see the star drive locally yet, but they seem to be similar to a torx head screw (fairly common in automotive applications) from what I can tell. I'm sure they work great.
Anyway, the cost difference between types of screws is the least of my worries, the insulation I need for my room is going to be a killer, then there's heat and lights to consider.
As for screws or nails, buy 'em in bulk, and if there's a sale, buy more. You'll use them eventually.
DoughlessSheesh, lighten up Francis..... After following this thread, like others, I get amazed at how some things can get off on a tangent or even derailed. (pun) There is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top. Also, a need for building either quality benchwork or high quality benchwork will be determined by the location of the layout, whether humidity conditions vary greatly, or if the layout is mobile, etc. Screwing into 3/4 ply or MDF, rather than 1/2 inch material, can be a problem as well.
Francis? OK whatever you say... Dick? Bob? Hank? Whatever...
Regardless of what I am building I prefer to do a quality job. I don't use drywall screws for anything other than drywall. Francis was my fathers middle name BTW, may he rest in peace.
kcole4001Phillips head drywall screws are actually better for drywall than Robertson because the square recess takes more filler to cover and usually shrinks in and needs to be covered again, in my experience, but maybe I'm a lousy drywaller (no maybe about it really!). :)
Absolutely. You are right the Robertson screws would take more filling, more coats etc. Not the screw to use for drywall. The great thing about the drywall screw is the Phillips head allows the drywall screw gun to cam out very easily resulting in perfectly driven screws every time. This does not work so well with Robertson head screws as the tip tends to bind rather than releasing. Over driving screws in drywall is a no no.
Oddly enough, Drywall screws are perfect for drywall...maybe that's why they call em drywall screws...
Sheet metal screws seem to be well suited for sheet metal, wood screws work well in wood, self tapping screws are great for metal too but they really are not so good for wood. Drywall screws...well it seems fairly obvious no?
Anyway, time to move on to other things as some people are getting riled by the screw debate. No need to have any more locked threads.
kcole4001 I haven't see the star drive locally yet, but they seem to be similar to a torx head screw (fairly common in automotive applications) from what I can tell. I'm sure they work great.
The brand name is Spax, and they are indeed torx heads----- T-20 size. I found I also had them in 3" lengths. ( The mind is the first thing to......................... what was I talking about?)
Don
HobbyDr's Workbench
The below tool I have been using for some years in industrial work and at home, layout construction with cordless drills. The tip is magnetic with a sleeve that contains the screw. It is a Dewalt product, comes in two lengths. I use the shorter one at home.
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/accessory_category_detail.asp?categoryID=268
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Just found a little did bit of information the other day , not sure if it's been posted or not but they make coarse and fine thread drywall screws.Thinking about it for a second I can't see why drywall screws wouldn't work just as good as deck screws as they both are holding or biting into wood correct? Not like trying to use a sheet metal screw as a wood fastener or vice a versa which I had proof of out in my shop one day when I worked on a 55 Chevy that had a replacement trunk pan held in with dry wall screws. Now you want to talk about some model railroad guys being hacks.
JSperan:
Rent the movie "Stripes". You know, Bill Murray, Harold Ramos, John Candy. Fairly early in the movie, Sargeant BigToe retorts with a classic one-liner.
No disrespect intended to you or your family.
MAbruce Doughless There is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top. I agree. This isn't exactly one of those Norm Abrams New Yankee Workshop projects. I used drywall screws and they worked fine. I'm sure decking screws or whatever current hi-tech screw would work great too. Why make such a fuss over which one to use? So what's next, comparing clothing styles when working on your layout?
Doughless There is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top.
On the show "Green Acres" Oliver Wendall Douglas used to have different suits for different chores, being a former attorney. A plowing suit, a hoeing suit......
When I hired a contractor to build a deck on the back of my house, I commented how the deck looked like it sloped along where it met the house, the level of the deck not being parellel with the siding boards. It was probably out of whack a half an inch for 20 feet, but noticeable since it was against the straight line of the siding. He commented "Well, we're building a deck here, not an airplane". I paused, said OK, then walked away.
Now back to our discussion, which I think has something to do with model railroading I suppose.....
I thought this was like the "Toast" thread, then I realized some of you were serious.
All of my drywall screws are prototypical and will go around a 15" radius in HO. Thinking about upgrading them with DCC and sound, can anyone recommend a good decoder?
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I've used drywall screws for a number of layouts, including attic based, basement based, garage based, for more than 20 years, with never a problem. I would not use them in a outdoor situation, however, due to rust.... If you can't put two pieces of wood, or a piece of decking and a piece of wood together and keepem together with drywall screws, you "aint doin it right"!
Remember that there are different types of drywall screws, fine thread (I find these worthless even for drywall), course thread and the black type or golden type (don't remember the specific names), I use the golden type as they are stronger and only use the black for 1/4" sheetrock as you can get 3/4 inch long ones also good for putting up some drapery rods.