Errol
__________________________________________________
Modeling Canadian Pacific's Okanagan Branch In The 1950's
I always use deck screws for joining wood.
Nails pull out too easily with vibration, and Phillips head screws (such as drywall screws) are awkward to use.
Thankfully, P.L. Robertson did us Canadians a big favor many years ago with his screw design. They are starting to catch on around the world. I wouldn't use anything else.
Ditto. Not sure where the idea of using drywall screws got started, maybe because at first glance they look like desk screws. I always use deck screws, drill pilot holes, and glue the joint as well as screw it together. Last month was th first I ever had to move one of my sections built like this, and it came through perfectly intact. A 2x8 section, which in reality was a pair of 2x4 sections screwed together at the end, complete with pink foam top, was moved from my old apartment to my new one and arrived in the same condition it left, nothign popped loose or split or pulled loose. Plus it's light weight, it was no problem for me to lift the whole thing with one hand.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
kcole4001Thankfully, P.L. Robertson did us Canadians a big favor many years ago with his screw design. They are starting to catch on around the world. I wouldn't use anything else.
Amen!
I throw most of the Phillips screws that cross my bench into the scrap metal bin.
I agree, Drywall screws are for drywall. For everything else there are Robertson deck screws.
It's a shame that Robertson was so against the idea of selling liscensing for manufacturing his screw. If he had, Henry Ford would have used Robertson screws in his assembly line and Phillips would be just another bad idea that never went anywhere... ;o)
If you use a Robertson brand driver and screw, the driver will hang from the screw without falling free. Makes driving screws one handed in awkward positions so much simpler, IMO.
I have about a lifetime supply of drywall screws left over from building my house and I use them for almost everything. I use a countersink bit to predrill everywhere a screw goes and also glue my joints. The drywall screws pull the wood parts together just fine squeezing out the glue. They have been my preferred method for securing 3/4 pine and also for plywood.
Recently I bought a Kreg pocket hole jig kit that makes a really strong joint. It is much better than the dry wall screws however, the cost is a quite a bit more too.
Just my 2 cents
60YOKID I have about a lifetime supply of drywall screws left over from building my house and I use them for almost everything. I use a countersink bit to predrill everywhere a screw goes and also glue my joints. The drywall screws pull the wood parts together just fine squeezing out the glue. They have been my preferred method for securing 3/4 pine and also for plywood.
Ditto. Had a massive tub of drywall screws leftover from the basement remodel and built all of my three-level benchwork using them (still have a few inches left in the bottom of the tub). No problems at all. Jamie
CLICK HERE FOR THE CSX DIXIE LINE BLOG
I use Roberston screws when I can get them. Personally, I prefer #8 and #10 wood screws for bench work.
Enjoy
Paul
I only used the drywall type to secure my spline roadbed to the tops of the wooden risers, predrilled and countersunk. All other wood joints are with 1.75" or 3" anodized Robertson head wood screws with the threads rising from the tip only to within about 3/8" from the head.
-Crandell
My Santa Fe layout was started in 1984, is finished, three decks, helixes and all, and is all drywall screws. Nothing has collapsed, fallen down, keeled over or anything else, so I guess I will continue to use them.
Bob
My bench work is all screwed & glued with yellow carpenters glue and drywall screws I also use a countersunk starter bit. My bench work is 1x4 with 2x4 legs and lagged into a ledger board I have climbed on top of my bench work many many time without so much as a creek. Strength is achieved in the design as much as it is in the construction and materials.
And what is the comparative costs between the different screws? From personal experience, I've found drywall screws satisfactory.
Mark
I used drywall screws to build all my benchwork for the same reason as a lot of others .... I had a ton of them from leftover projects !
The trick is to drill your pilot hole in the top board slightly larger than the shank of the screw so it won't bite into the top board as you tighten things up.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I'm in the final stages of bench work construction and have used only square drive screws. I purchased the screws from Rockler Woodworking and Hardware (www.rockler.com). The screws I got from them are actually Square-X drive screws which combine the square drive with the Phillips drive. I got these for convenience in case I mislaid my square driver. I use only a square driver to install these screws. Rockler also carries plain square drive screws. The square-X drives are available in #6 and #8 in lengths ranging from #6 5/8" to #8 3". The cost ranges from $2.59/100 for the #6 5/8" to $5.69/50 for the #8 3". If you get on the Rockler E-mail list, they'll send you notices of sales and free shipping offers.
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
I used Robertson on all my benchwork. However for mounting the supports for my spline roadbed I used drywall screws as they made smaller less damaging holes thus making it easier to do small adjustments without headaches. This I learned on this forum from experienced spliners and as usual took heed.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
After shearing the heads off a couple of drywall screws (I think the studs in my house are made of armor plate) I went to deck screws to secure shelf bracket tracks through the drywall into the studs.
For every other purpose, including fastening thin plywood subgrade to riser flanges, I use those tiny screws intended for steel stud assembly. (Do you think that the design of my 'steel studs for everything' benchwork might have influenced that?)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with minimal use of forest products)
Hi!
I'm a great fan of deck screws (even used them to make an actual 8x20 covered deck), and have used them exclusively in my last layout (1993) and the one currently under construction. For the actual support of the layout I've used the deck screws, but for attaching the plywood surfaces I've used shorter drywall screws - mainly because I was gifted with a large box of them. For this kind of purpose, they work just fine.
By the way, without these screws and cordless variable speed drills, building a layout would be a major chore - IMHO of course.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Somebody asked about the price. Drywall screws are dirt cheap when compared to a quality plated screw. Of course, you get exactly what you pay for, cheap dirty screws.
I too have a large tub of drywall screws left over. I use them for drywall.
On projects that require strength, I use deck screws, usually Phillips head. On projects that don't require the strength, I use Phillips-head drywall screws.
Any screw will have superior holding power compared to most nails. Drywall screws are strong along the axis of the screw, not so strong across the axis. Drywall screws can break under a shearing force. Deck screws are designed for construction duty. They have as good or better shear strength than nails of a similar size.
When using glue on joints, screws or nail are used to hold the pieces together while the glue sets. When properly glued, wood is strong enough on layout construction even without screws or nails, but I don't know of anyone who removes the screws or nails after glueing!
Most of the time, I pre-drill for the screw. I will countersink if drilling into a hard surface, otherwise the screws will countersink themselves.'
Layout construction, for the most part, is light-duty construction and drywall screws are acceptable for that use. Where one may need the greater strength, such as a ledger board screwed to the studs, deck screws are a better altenative.
Just my opinion. YMMV.
Darrell, quiet...for now
I avoid all use of drywall screws-too brittle-had many a one fail on me, get a good quality Robertson deck screw from a builders supply, not the local big box home center, cheaper if you purchase by the pound.
Dave
I have used multi-purpose screws in the past. Think drywall screws with 3/4 threads. They worked well and I never broke any. Cost a little more then drywall but less then deck.
However, I am now a great fan of nail guns. All new layout construction in the last 10 years or so, I've nailed. Could be the general improvement in my technique, but the air nailed sections are much more ridged then the screwed ones.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
It appears that a lot of forum members already know about the advantages of deck screws and Robertson drives. It's unfortunate that they're not as universally available as they are here in Canada.
I rely on the strength of deck screws in my benchwork, because I don't use glue. I want the advantage of being able to take the benchwork apart if I ever want to make changes, or move it. For this reason, I wouldn't use an air nailer either, although I can certainly see it has its merits.
Sheesh. First we have rivet counters to worry about, now we have hardware snobs!
Drywall screws for me. Cheap, available by the ton, and highly functional. If one fails, there's a million more in the tub to take its place. I do always apply some liquid nails or yellow glue to the joints to make sure they stay secure.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I just use drywall screws and they work fine. It's not like they have to hold up the house or anything. The most they had to hold is my 220 pound body when climbing on it in the beginning. The 2x4 construction with a few 3 1/2 inch drywall screws works great. I usually drill a small pilot hole before screwing to make things easier.
Springfield PA
In case there was any question as to the superiority of the Robertson type of screw, try them once. That's all it will take.
You can snap 'em on the driver and proceed to use your free hand for whatever you need. Not so with other drive types. They usually stay in place on the driver bit even upside down, especially the coated deck screws.
Try using Phillips screws when holding on to a ladder with your other hand, trying to steady your work piece, and drive the screw straight at the same time.
That was Robertson's original selling point, they're that much easier and more convenient to use that he gave away the screwdrivers and sold his screws at a higher price point knowing that once you tried them, you wouldn't go back to another type.
I still use Phillips screws at times because I have loads of spares and they come packaged with a lot of things, but I don't go out and buy them. If I buy screws by the box or kg they're Robertsons.
I don't have shares in the company or anything, just trying to get the point across that using them will save you time and loads of frustration, not just building benchwork. For example, I would NEVER think of installing a ceiling fan using any other type of screw. Any awkward, inconvenient job will be so much easier using screws that won't fall off your driver bit if you look at them sideways.
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Order their catalog. High drool factor (like Walthers, not Victoria Secret). Enjoy!
Square drive is wonderful. Phillips is just for drywalling so it cams out.
I find myself agreeing with Lee. I had just finished our basement, with tons of drywall screws left over, when I constructed the present layout. So, many of them were pressed into service. However, for the frame member joins and for legs, I went out and purchased the Robertson head wood screws. My layout is plenty rigid, too.
As a follow-up to my earlier posting ..........
I forgot to mention that all the deck and drywall screws I use are coarse thread. These bite more easily, and seem to hold better.
Also, I started screwing down plywood sections on the main level of my 11x15 HO layout today. I'm using 1 1/8 coarse thread drywall screws and they work just fine with the 1/2 inch ply.
Lastly, buy in bulk if you can. These - like most fasteners - are much cheaper in the larger packages.
ENJOY,
I guess I learned to be a "hardware snob" from my father, a master carpenter, cabinet maker in his own right. He would be embarrassed to build ANYTHING using drywall screws. He's passed on now but I can still hear him saying it with a sneer...DRYWALL SCREWS?!
For myself, I take pride in doing quality work when I build anything. To use a drywall screw on something I took the time to build negates the time put into it to make it the right way in the first place.
Beside that, having to pick up two screws that fell off the driver for every one I drove in is a huge waste of time.
Why would anyone go out and buy clear pine, birch plywood, and other excellent quality lumber and then screw it together with cheap fasteners is beyond me, but to each his own.
I have used drywall screws for years and have never experienced any problems, other than an occasional sheared head when I went into a dense wood. (Usually because I had the driver set to 'drill.') There are drywall screws that aren't threaded all the way to the head. I don't always drill pilots either. Just drive the screw through, and if the two pieces of wood separate a little, back it out and drive it back home.
That said, I do have a new favorite screw. If you think the square drive of the Robertson holds secure while driving, wait til you try one that uses a star drive. Sorry I don't have the official name off the top of my head, but these screws are self-drilling (very aggressive point) and self-countersinking in all but the hardest woods. Zip-zip and they're in. I get them in 1-1/2" and 2" lengths, and they even come with the star drive bit. They are coated with a smooth gold finish, so there is no worry about staining . I'm not throwing out my drywall screws, but I won't be buying anymore either. Available at Lowes and Home Depot.
Don
HobbyDr's Workbench