Remember that there are different types of drywall screws, fine thread (I find these worthless even for drywall), course thread and the black type or golden type (don't remember the specific names), I use the golden type as they are stronger and only use the black for 1/4" sheetrock as you can get 3/4 inch long ones also good for putting up some drapery rods.
I've used drywall screws for a number of layouts, including attic based, basement based, garage based, for more than 20 years, with never a problem. I would not use them in a outdoor situation, however, due to rust.... If you can't put two pieces of wood, or a piece of decking and a piece of wood together and keepem together with drywall screws, you "aint doin it right"!
I thought this was like the "Toast" thread, then I realized some of you were serious.
All of my drywall screws are prototypical and will go around a 15" radius in HO. Thinking about upgrading them with DCC and sound, can anyone recommend a good decoder?
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
MAbruce Doughless There is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top. I agree. This isn't exactly one of those Norm Abrams New Yankee Workshop projects. I used drywall screws and they worked fine. I'm sure decking screws or whatever current hi-tech screw would work great too. Why make such a fuss over which one to use? So what's next, comparing clothing styles when working on your layout?
Doughless There is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top.
There is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top.
I agree. This isn't exactly one of those Norm Abrams New Yankee Workshop projects. I used drywall screws and they worked fine. I'm sure decking screws or whatever current hi-tech screw would work great too. Why make such a fuss over which one to use?
So what's next, comparing clothing styles when working on your layout?
On the show "Green Acres" Oliver Wendall Douglas used to have different suits for different chores, being a former attorney. A plowing suit, a hoeing suit......
When I hired a contractor to build a deck on the back of my house, I commented how the deck looked like it sloped along where it met the house, the level of the deck not being parellel with the siding boards. It was probably out of whack a half an inch for 20 feet, but noticeable since it was against the straight line of the siding. He commented "Well, we're building a deck here, not an airplane". I paused, said OK, then walked away.
Now back to our discussion, which I think has something to do with model railroading I suppose.....
- Douglas
JSperan:
Francis? OK whatever you say... Dick? Bob? Hank? Whatever...
Regardless of what I am building I prefer to do a quality job. I don't use drywall screws for anything other than drywall. Francis was my fathers middle name BTW, may he rest in peace.
Rent the movie "Stripes". You know, Bill Murray, Harold Ramos, John Candy. Fairly early in the movie, Sargeant BigToe retorts with a classic one-liner.
No disrespect intended to you or your family.
Just found a little did bit of information the other day , not sure if it's been posted or not but they make coarse and fine thread drywall screws.Thinking about it for a second I can't see why drywall screws wouldn't work just as good as deck screws as they both are holding or biting into wood correct? Not like trying to use a sheet metal screw as a wood fastener or vice a versa which I had proof of out in my shop one day when I worked on a 55 Chevy that had a replacement trunk pan held in with dry wall screws. Now you want to talk about some model railroad guys being hacks.
The below tool I have been using for some years in industrial work and at home, layout construction with cordless drills. The tip is magnetic with a sleeve that contains the screw. It is a Dewalt product, comes in two lengths. I use the shorter one at home.
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/accessory_category_detail.asp?categoryID=268
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
kcole4001 I haven't see the star drive locally yet, but they seem to be similar to a torx head screw (fairly common in automotive applications) from what I can tell. I'm sure they work great.
I haven't see the star drive locally yet, but they seem to be similar to a torx head screw (fairly common in automotive applications) from what I can tell. I'm sure they work great.
The brand name is Spax, and they are indeed torx heads----- T-20 size. I found I also had them in 3" lengths. ( The mind is the first thing to......................... what was I talking about?)
Don
HobbyDr's Workbench
DoughlessSheesh, lighten up Francis..... After following this thread, like others, I get amazed at how some things can get off on a tangent or even derailed. (pun) There is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top. Also, a need for building either quality benchwork or high quality benchwork will be determined by the location of the layout, whether humidity conditions vary greatly, or if the layout is mobile, etc. Screwing into 3/4 ply or MDF, rather than 1/2 inch material, can be a problem as well.
Sheesh, lighten up Francis.....
After following this thread, like others, I get amazed at how some things can get off on a tangent or even derailed. (pun)
Also, a need for building either quality benchwork or high quality benchwork will be determined by the location of the layout, whether humidity conditions vary greatly, or if the layout is mobile, etc. Screwing into 3/4 ply or MDF, rather than 1/2 inch material, can be a problem as well.
kcole4001Phillips head drywall screws are actually better for drywall than Robertson because the square recess takes more filler to cover and usually shrinks in and needs to be covered again, in my experience, but maybe I'm a lousy drywaller (no maybe about it really!). :)
Phillips head drywall screws are actually better for drywall than Robertson because the square recess takes more filler to cover and usually shrinks in and needs to be covered again, in my experience, but maybe I'm a lousy drywaller (no maybe about it really!). :)
Absolutely. You are right the Robertson screws would take more filling, more coats etc. Not the screw to use for drywall. The great thing about the drywall screw is the Phillips head allows the drywall screw gun to cam out very easily resulting in perfectly driven screws every time. This does not work so well with Robertson head screws as the tip tends to bind rather than releasing. Over driving screws in drywall is a no no.
Oddly enough, Drywall screws are perfect for drywall...maybe that's why they call em drywall screws...
Sheet metal screws seem to be well suited for sheet metal, wood screws work well in wood, self tapping screws are great for metal too but they really are not so good for wood. Drywall screws...well it seems fairly obvious no?
Anyway, time to move on to other things as some people are getting riled by the screw debate. No need to have any more locked threads.
Anyway, the cost difference between types of screws is the least of my worries, the insulation I need for my room is going to be a killer, then there's heat and lights to consider.
As for screws or nails, buy 'em in bulk, and if there's a sale, buy more. You'll use them eventually.
I have no problems holding the drywall screws on the bit. I have a magnetic bit and it holds great.
Springfield PA
I've learned a lot from this thread, and it is always interesting to see how many ways we can build. I practice snobbery as well as slobbery (a little of both every day!), so I don't mind the opinions, because I can see it both ways.
DoughlessThere is a difference between building fine cabinetry and furniture, and building benchwork that will be located in the basement, skirted on the sides, and covered with scenery on the top.
HobbyDrwait til you try one that uses a star drive. I get them in 1-1/2" and 2" lengths, and they even come with the star drive bit. They are coated with a smooth gold finish, so there is no worry about staining.
wait til you try one that uses a star drive. I get them in 1-1/2" and 2" lengths, and they even come with the star drive bit. They are coated with a smooth gold finish, so there is no worry about staining.
I recently made pool deck repairs with these "newer Star Deck Screws." Most of the project was primarily to screw down warped wood, and they were very effective. Countersinking for the screw head was needed as the outdoor wood had cured for apx. ten years. A joy to work with!
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
I had a blast designing and building L girder under my two-deck layout (and the L girder supported slot car track). I use old fashioned wood screws because I didn't know anything better was available, so each hole was drilled with an oversize for the shank, and a countersink for the flat head. If I broke a three-stage drill I just used two electric drills with a different bit in each. I used traditional slotted head wood screws when available, and Phillips when Lowe's was out of slotted head. My father was a mechanical engineer and wooden boat builder, so I learned to respect (and work with) slotted heads. It is possible to screw them in without the blade slipping out! I hate that cam-out action of Phillips, which is intended for throwaway mass produced consumer items, not anything "real". The Robertsons look great but they were not available. I tried a Makita drywall power screw driver but it ate out the Phillips heads; I can do much cleaner work by hand, control the torque better, and don't mind the blister in my palm.
The L girders themselves were glued and nailed, as I never understood why anyone would waste screws for that, or go to the trouble of unscrewing them after the glue dries. #2 pine is expensive, but it is a joy to work with. I used ash risers (3/4" x 1/2") to support certain roadbeds that are close to an aisle and may get whacked by heavy things going in and out of the basement, because ash is really strong. We have lots of 3/4" ash T&G because we floored our house with it.
JSperan I guess I learned to be a "hardware snob" from my father, a master carpenter, cabinet maker in his own right. He would be embarrassed to build ANYTHING using drywall screws. He's passed on now but I can still hear him saying it with a sneer...DRYWALL SCREWS?! For myself, I take pride in doing quality work when I build anything. To use a drywall screw on something I took the time to build negates the time put into it to make it the right way in the first place. Beside that, having to pick up two screws that fell off the driver for every one I drove in is a huge waste of time. Why would anyone go out and buy clear pine, birch plywood, and other excellent quality lumber and then screw it together with fasteners is beyond me, but to each his own.
I guess I learned to be a "hardware snob" from my father, a master carpenter, cabinet maker in his own right. He would be embarrassed to build ANYTHING using drywall screws. He's passed on now but I can still hear him saying it with a sneer...DRYWALL SCREWS?!
For myself, I take pride in doing quality work when I build anything. To use a drywall screw on something I took the time to build negates the time put into it to make it the right way in the first place.
Beside that, having to pick up two screws that fell off the driver for every one I drove in is a huge waste of time.
Why would anyone go out and buy clear pine, birch plywood, and other excellent quality lumber and then screw it together with fasteners is beyond me, but to each his own.
Lefty
Well, my base frames were built over 10 years ago (L girders with joists, 8'x3' overall) with cheap pine 1x3 furring strips, liquid nails and drywall screws. They've supported three different layouts, and always did so admirably. I braced them adequately to provide a stable base, and they've been around long enough to be plenty dried out and stable.
I'm something of a carpenter myself, and have done a lot of trim and cabinet work and I agree, there are some things you just don't do. But on the layout, it's what's above the benchwork where "neatness counts!" I've just always felt that fooling around with birch plywood and expensive hardware etc. is overkill, and throwing good money away that could be put to much better use on locomotives and scenery.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I have used drywall screws for years and have never experienced any problems, other than an occasional sheared head when I went into a dense wood. (Usually because I had the driver set to 'drill.') There are drywall screws that aren't threaded all the way to the head. I don't always drill pilots either. Just drive the screw through, and if the two pieces of wood separate a little, back it out and drive it back home.
That said, I do have a new favorite screw. If you think the square drive of the Robertson holds secure while driving, wait til you try one that uses a star drive. Sorry I don't have the official name off the top of my head, but these screws are self-drilling (very aggressive point) and self-countersinking in all but the hardest woods. Zip-zip and they're in. I get them in 1-1/2" and 2" lengths, and they even come with the star drive bit. They are coated with a smooth gold finish, so there is no worry about staining . I'm not throwing out my drywall screws, but I won't be buying anymore either. Available at Lowes and Home Depot.
Why would anyone go out and buy clear pine, birch plywood, and other excellent quality lumber and then screw it together with cheap fasteners is beyond me, but to each his own.
Hi!
As a follow-up to my earlier posting ..........
I forgot to mention that all the deck and drywall screws I use are coarse thread. These bite more easily, and seem to hold better.
Also, I started screwing down plywood sections on the main level of my 11x15 HO layout today. I'm using 1 1/8 coarse thread drywall screws and they work just fine with the 1/2 inch ply.
Lastly, buy in bulk if you can. These - like most fasteners - are much cheaper in the larger packages.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I find myself agreeing with Lee. I had just finished our basement, with tons of drywall screws left over, when I constructed the present layout. So, many of them were pressed into service. However, for the frame member joins and for legs, I went out and purchased the Robertson head wood screws. My layout is plenty rigid, too.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/?src=M7GLMCF&s_kwcid=TC|4266|mcfeely%20screws||S||3564055705&gclid=CMilvYTu1pwCFdoU5wodm3AUJg
Order their catalog. High drool factor (like Walthers, not Victoria Secret). Enjoy!
Square drive is wonderful. Phillips is just for drywalling so it cams out.
In case there was any question as to the superiority of the Robertson type of screw, try them once. That's all it will take.
You can snap 'em on the driver and proceed to use your free hand for whatever you need. Not so with other drive types. They usually stay in place on the driver bit even upside down, especially the coated deck screws.
Try using Phillips screws when holding on to a ladder with your other hand, trying to steady your work piece, and drive the screw straight at the same time.
That was Robertson's original selling point, they're that much easier and more convenient to use that he gave away the screwdrivers and sold his screws at a higher price point knowing that once you tried them, you wouldn't go back to another type.
I still use Phillips screws at times because I have loads of spares and they come packaged with a lot of things, but I don't go out and buy them. If I buy screws by the box or kg they're Robertsons.
I don't have shares in the company or anything, just trying to get the point across that using them will save you time and loads of frustration, not just building benchwork. For example, I would NEVER think of installing a ceiling fan using any other type of screw. Any awkward, inconvenient job will be so much easier using screws that won't fall off your driver bit if you look at them sideways.
I just use drywall screws and they work fine. It's not like they have to hold up the house or anything. The most they had to hold is my 220 pound body when climbing on it in the beginning. The 2x4 construction with a few 3 1/2 inch drywall screws works great. I usually drill a small pilot hole before screwing to make things easier.
Sheesh. First we have rivet counters to worry about, now we have hardware snobs!
Drywall screws for me. Cheap, available by the ton, and highly functional. If one fails, there's a million more in the tub to take its place. I do always apply some liquid nails or yellow glue to the joints to make sure they stay secure.
It appears that a lot of forum members already know about the advantages of deck screws and Robertson drives. It's unfortunate that they're not as universally available as they are here in Canada.
I rely on the strength of deck screws in my benchwork, because I don't use glue. I want the advantage of being able to take the benchwork apart if I ever want to make changes, or move it. For this reason, I wouldn't use an air nailer either, although I can certainly see it has its merits.
Errol
__________________________________________________
Modeling Canadian Pacific's Okanagan Branch In The 1950's
I have used multi-purpose screws in the past. Think drywall screws with 3/4 threads. They worked well and I never broke any. Cost a little more then drywall but less then deck.
However, I am now a great fan of nail guns. All new layout construction in the last 10 years or so, I've nailed. Could be the general improvement in my technique, but the air nailed sections are much more ridged then the screwed ones.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/