I am currently building layout #3 The first one I learned that having a double track main with a figure 8 type track plan makes for some very difficult operations. I also learned a few good and different types of building skills. The last thing that I think I adopted was that you dont need to use WS stuff for everything, those risers and plastercloth get expensive.
2nd layout was alot smaller and also more operations friendly, tho a loop inside of a loop on a 4x8 gets to be very limiting. I built the layout to be portable but once I started to build the scenery I found that having the top portion one 4 x 8 foot piece made for very limited portability.
Current layout, same bench design as the last one only this one will be 5 x 9 and the table portion will be built in 4 parts not just one as the last one was. This layout needs to be portable too. Also I found that the people here are not as helpful with track plan designs. I need some help in this department and after 470 views of my build thread and 415 views of my first track plan thread I have recieved very little help. Track planning is not my strong point and I would like to learn more but require assistance in that department. My second layout I used this board to help me work out the track plan and every one here was a great help and with out you guys I would have had another flop like my first one was.
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Started one on a 4'x8' plywood sheet (table) as a youth and learned:
1) Took to long for my level of patience back then.
2) Which engines ran fastest, pulled the most, etc... ("Who Would Win syndrome")
3) It cost more than my piggy bank could handle.
Now that I am in my mid-40's, I hope to begin building my first REAL layout within the next year or two. Still need to finish the floor in the new train room and funds continue to be a main factor in how fast the project moves along. I remain optimistic and see a light at the end of this modelling tunnel. -Rob
Hi!
What a nice subject to start the morning!!!!
I have built 1 large Lionel layout (1956), 1 medium HO (1960), 1 medium HO (1973), 1 medium N (1986), and the present 11x15 HO which began in 1989. Here are some of the more important things I have learned..........
- Pick your scale carefully that suites YOU. For ME, N was too small, HO is easier to work.
- Make a running list as you build your layout - "things that worked, things that did not, what I did right, what I would change on the next layout". This can be invaluable the next time.
- Before construction, clean the room/area, do the lighting, background, ceiling, etc.
- Design the layout on paper first, and don't cheat on the space needed for turnouts, etc.
- Sheetrock screws with two drills (one for starter hole, one for screwing) are terrific for benchwork construction (assuming you use wood of course).
- Have a smooth surface to lay your track, and be a perfectionist during the tracklaying process. Nothing will run you off faster than derailments due to bad trackage.
- Unless you have unlimited resources (space/time/money/skills) you can't have everything on your layout. Pick and choose your locos/rolling stock/structures/scenery carefully. This is my personal bugaboo, and I continue to struggle with "wanting it all".
- ENJOY ! This truly is a wonderful hobby, but even so one sometimes needs to just leave it alone. When you don't feel like "playing with trains", just shut the door and walk away.
- Ha, NEVER mix trains (real or model) with alcohol or other mind altering substances!!!
Hope that helps!!!!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I'm just at the start of my 5th - first was N guage then two in 'oo' in the UK and then my second here in Canada. I model modern era CP/CN but with lots of stuff that doesn't really belong but I'm going to run it anyway.
First lesson was that career, kids and time all conspire to thwart modelling ambition
Second lesson was that ambition often started me on a path that I was never going to get anywhere near completed
Third - if you compromise too much you'll just end up frustrated and wishing you had negotiated a better deal on how much of the house you could have for the railroad
Fourth - garages in Canada are way too cold to enjoy the hobby
Fifth - I could never see myself modelling anything other than British prototype but having been here for a while the diversity of North American railroads is fantastic (my British stock reamins in the boxes and will soon be sold).
I'm thinking of starting a concurrent layout or even two - one in N to model longer trains and a narrow gauge so I'm clearly not learning from many of these lessons.......
I'm on my fifth layout and I sometimes wonder if I've learned a thing!!! (certainly haven't learned not to start a layout)
Tilden
I am on my third large layout. The following is a list of mistakes I made on my old layout (my second large layout) which was a Marklin layout in the garage. This layout was 95% complete and came down in June 2004. I am now in the process of making a whole new batch of mistakes.
Things I did wrong and would fix on the next layout
Not making a clean electrical connection to every track piece. This error caused me more grief than any other mistake (except spraying the power studs). When the track is new and laying on the cork, it usually functions perfectly. However, after painting, ballasting and gluing of the ballast the track often loses electrical contact Glue seeps in between the press on track connectors and interrupts the electrical flow. between pieces. My advice: solder leads to every piece of track. This will take longer in the beginning but not half as long as I have spent trying to make up for not doing it.
Spraying the studs. Nothing I did was as bad as this mistake. It dogged the railroad the entire time and was a huge error. When applying glue to the ballast , I soaked the heck out of everything. I sprayed and sprayed matt medium to make sure that things stayed put. The layout looked great but nothing would run at all. For two rail track all one has to do is brite boy the rails and your off and running. Marklin track has studs. Lots of them . They must be individually scraped. There are still dead spots that I have never been able to fix from that fatal spraying. Advice: spray the track sparingly, wipe with a wet cloth to remove the glue. Use a dropper when possible, between the rails (this strategy worked fine on other sections of track)
steep grades. Ok, everyone does this at least once and I am sure that those of you bent on doing the steep grade thing are not going to be swayed by seeing the warning in print again. The reasons for having 5 or 6 percent grades are that one can climb (in a short run) high enough to cross over the other track and it is possible to have two levels of track in a small space. For two rail systems, most locos will not pull trains up these grades with out traction tires. Marklin gear has the tires and has no problems in this area. The more insidious problem with steep grades is how they look. One cannot put buildings next to them lest they look out of plumb. Trains look unrealistic climbing them as well. Advice: consider hiding steep grades or using a helix if you must climb.
hidden track work that I couldn't reach. Another one that every one does at least once. There was only a little bit of this on the current layout and it happened to be where a large proportion of my derailments happened as well as a switch failure. Advice: make sure you can reach it!!
no switching plan before starting, lack of run-arounds. I had little idea why one needed run-arounds until I tried switching some facing point moves. Without the run around you are in trouble big time. Sure they take up space and appear to be extra track work but they are necessary. Advice: try switching your track plan on paper with cutouts for the cars and the locos before you build. Consult other more experienced train guys for help in this area.
Yard lead in a tunnel, down hill, s curved and crossing two power districts. This one is about as dumb as it gets but you would be surprised to hear how many guys tell me that they did the same thing on their layouts. Leads are necessary to switch the yard and they must be in plain sight. Any grades here are undesirable as are s curves. Power blocks must be broken in spots that will not require shuttling back and forth between throttles. Advice: plan the yard throat and leads carefully.
Not finishing the train room, atmospheric conditions in the garage. This one falls into the "well duh," category. I was in such a hurry to build my railroad that I didn't care about the huge gaps in the garage door that let in lots of moist air every night. Nor did I care about the rafters that dropped crud down on the layout. Later when track started corroding and rusting, I began to care about the gaps in the door. It was then too late to fix the problem. As for the ceiling: You haven't lived until you have tried to hang drywall and finish a ceiling above a nearly completed layout without damaging it. Advice: Consider that the layout will turn out great and that you want to do it right the first time. Finish the space as well as you can before construction begins.
Track on ¼" ply wood. Another rather obvious one. It can be very annoying to spend $50.00 on a sheet of plywood for sub-road bed and then throw half of it away as waste because the track cutouts left you with odd shaped pieces. I saved a few bucks and used ¼ inch plywood. I was later rewarded for my thriftiness with warping track and humps, dips and runaway cars on "level track". Advice: Use the stiffest, thickest plywood you can as sub-roadbed. I like master modeler Tony Koester's response as to why he uses ¾ plywood for his sub-roadbed "Because they don't make 1" plywood!!"
Severe curves This one slipped by me. I spent a large amount of time plotting elegant flex track curves for the visible sections of the track on my layout. Some how I rationalized using one section of a 15" radius curve on my main line to make a slight bend along the front of the layout. The bend as it turns out is actually quite severe and it will derail a train running at speed. I later (years later) realized that I had let this one slip in unnoticed by me even though I have stared at it every time I have been working on the layout. Advice: check and recheck those curve radii. Have an experienced train guy check as well.
One more: There is a fine line between hobby and obsession. Know where it lies......
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Well ignoring the usual childhood plywood central, there have been 4 'serious' railroads in the past 30+ years:
1 x 8 switching railroad with modest curves and steep grades, but worked out very well overall. No real connection to the 'outside world', so as a concept was very limited.
2 x 12 - start of a 'sectional' railroad that was designed to grow to fit the available space. A real nightmare with lots of poor trackwork, etc. Lots of lessons learned though and junked real fast.
10 x 6 L-shaped bookshelf railroad. Careful planning and attention to detail with handlaid trackworks, built up turnouts, etc this became my 'breakthrough' railroad. I was able to refine my skills in many phases of the hobby including scenery, scratch building, operations and so forth. This one was a real joy, especially since it it featured my love for geared loco's (Shays, etc). Utlimately got featured in RMC a few years back. Set in the 1930s this free-lanced railroad has lasted for more than 20 years and is slowly being dismantled to make room for...
10 x 10 prototype-themed railroad. This one was is based upon careful research of prototype equipment, locomotives, trackwork, operations, structures all suited to a fixed period (fall 1951) in a fixed locale for a specific railroad (C&O). Before construction started lots of time spent to designing and refining the railroad itself - including benchwork - before one piece of wood was cut. Some new skills picked up along the way as well - including going all DCC sound and staging yards. In fact these last two proved to be vital to the overall concept - operationally DCC is a must for train control and the staging yard made the traffic to be run on the railroad a reality. While I'm still in the base scenery phase of things, this railroad is turning out to be one of those 'little gaint' jewels.
Charles
Related links:
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1315698/ShowPost.aspx
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1348379/ShowPost.aspx
My new layout, (#4), a bridge-line that takes place in Eastern Missouri, will connect the CB&Q near hiway 79, then west to Hawk Point then south along hiway 47 across the old Wabash / Norfolk & Western RR line near Warrenton thru Missouri Wine Country to connect with MKT near hiway 94. Since this is "my" railroad most places will have the "flavor" of this area but maynot be perfect to the prototype. Time will be pre Burlington Northern (1970).
The things that will be different on this layout:
#1 This will be a point to point RR built on Hollow-core doors along two walls, so it will be in sections.
#2 It's going to be less track, no yard, no switch machines, open staging, & simple engine service area.
#3 Just a few small towns with one or two sidings.
#4 More open scenery between towns.
#5 Interchange with RR on each end.
#6 Keep everything simple so I can spend more time running then repairing!
I'm always open to comments and/or suggestions as I'm looking to learn anything that I can that could help make this hobby more fun!
I'm on #4, unless I count the first one - dad really built it (I didn't learn much of anything).
My first was a double-track oval in N scale. I learned all the basics about wiring, electricity, and scenery. I had a lot of frustrations with track laying. I thought that continuous running was mandatory for me to enjoy my layout.
My second was a big dogbone, in N scale. I still thought continuous running was critical. I never got much good at track, and I decided that N scale locomotives were unreliable (this was 30 years ago).
My third was also N scale. This time I hand laid the track; it was point to point; and I did everything extra neat (2 years just laying track and wiring). I learned that careful, neat, crisp trackwork and wiring is key to everything. It makes a layout a pleasure. I found what I think was the first really good N scale loco: 0-6-0 by Aurora. It ran well and had good electrical pickup. I also discovered solid state throttles. If you're in DC, you owe it to yourself to use one of these; the slow speed operation is wonderful and the momentum settings are a lot of fun. They are almost as nice as DCC, unless you run multiple trains. I did make really good benchwork and I was glad I did (L girder).
Then there was a 23 year gap while I earned a living, built a hot rod, renovated a house, built a house-full of furniture, etc.
My current layout is HO - No matter what they say about N scale, I was never really happy with it. This one took years of planning, and it's great. Its a reversing loop to point layout with lots of cool features, like a two-loop helix that is half exposed on concentric curved trestles (the other half is inside tunnels). I found that I don't enjoy modeling in plastic, so all my structures are wood, my rolling stock is wood and/or metal, and my locos are brass. I use a solid state throttle (love it) and I use power routing turnouts instead of cutting gaps and wiring separate blocks. The main thing I've learned is that there's no time lost in planning. Also:
and finally: Continuous running is overrated.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
This one really got me thinking, as the truth is I've lost count! My "first" layout I didn't build myself, so I guess under the rules it doesn't count. It was a green painted sheet of plywood that my dad set up down in the basement for my American Flyer set. A simple oval of track with one siding, and a very ugly plywood tunnel on one end. It bit the dust when my family moved to a new home, and my two AF train sets went into storage boxes.
Fast forward several years later; we had sold the AF to a local collector. (Yeah, I know, I still regret that decision.) I re-entered the hobby on my own, venturing into the newly introduced scale called "N". I claimed a corner of the basement next to the pool table and erected 3 X 6 layout, which was later expanded with the addition of a drop-leaf extension. This is where I learned a lot of my basic model railroading skills. I had my first experiences with laying flex-track, ballasting track, doing plaster scenery, wiring a layout for cab control, and scratch building structures. Especially the latter, since there weren't a whole lot of structure kits available in the new scale, at that time. My first scratch building project was a Santa Fe style combination passenger and freight depot straight out of the pages of Model Railroader.
When I left for college, of course I couldn't take the layout with me. I spent my time instead improving my skills in structure building; since that was something I could do setting at a desk. I rebuilt or refitted several of the structures I had built for my home layout, using new and improved building materials that were now coming on the market. Printed brick building paper was covered with three-dimensional molded brick material. Three-dimensional shingles were applied on paper roofs. Windows that had been made of clear acetate with mullions drawn on them in ink were replaced with window castings of metal and plastic. And I continued to find inspiration for new projects in the pages of MR. I built their version of the Crooksville Bank block, and the LP Gas works. Both still survive on my layout today.
I my junior year in college I dismantled the layout in the basement, and experimented with a portable layout about 3ft long by 1ft wide. Obviously it wasn't really a layout, rather is was more in the way of what today we call a Layout Design Element. It consisted of the depot, a small engine facility, and a factory. I had hoped that it would be the core of a future permanent layout. Its drawback was that it wasn't very interesting to operate; it was more of a diorama. Still that "layout" followed me through college and graduate school, and a year in VISTA.
When I finally got my first job and my first apartment I dismantled the "layout in a box", and built instead a shelf layout of 1 ft wide and 12 ft in length on the top shelf of a set of knock-apart bookshelves. I recycled all of the structures from the earlier layouts, and kept some of the basic track design. In that the shelves could be disassembled and reassembled, it was a reasonably portable arrangement. That shelf layout survived close to 15 years, and 4 or 5 moves through two states. It went through a couple of modifications, as it had to be shortened on a couple of occasions to fit the available space. But it was essentially the same layout. Eventually it wound up in the basement of our present home. Though it survived all those moves, it could not survive two inquisitive toddlers. When my little girl took to deforesting all my trees, the trains and structures went back into boxes for a few years, until my children matured.
For my next layout, still in N-scale, I resurrected the freestanding 4 X 8 format in the middle of the basement rec room. That layout survived less than a year. It took up too much space in the wrong place. Plus the structures on the perimeter of the layout suffered a certain amount of ongoing damage from passing elbows.
For my last attempt I wound up cutting that layout in half and moving it up against one wall of the basement. By doing so I was able to lengthen it by 3 additional feet, and I got it out of the middle of the room. I was also able to reposition the most delicate structures out of harms way. Is it my ideal layout? No, it's too small. If I were not constrained by the area available to me I would have basically the same track plan, but with larger radius curves and more open spaces devoted only to scenery. I would also improve upon my miserable three-track rail yard, as most of my rolling stock is stored in boxes.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!