steinjr wrote: vsmith wrote: Guess like Chip said, it was just too much for some, maybe not enough time given to work out all the bugs or just too daunting a challenge, too much space and too many options to make quick decisions needed in competition design. I'm not all that surprised at the relatively few entries. (several paragraphs snipped) Anyways - looking forward to Chip getting around to posting the designs - based on experience, it will take about a week. And also based on experience, to tease Chip a little - he will probably start a new contest shortly after getting the voting done for this contest, where the rules for the next one probably will be "must fit inside football field, no other restrictions" Smile, Stein
vsmith wrote: Guess like Chip said, it was just too much for some, maybe not enough time given to work out all the bugs or just too daunting a challenge, too much space and too many options to make quick decisions needed in competition design.
Guess like Chip said, it was just too much for some, maybe not enough time given to work out all the bugs or just too daunting a challenge, too much space and too many options to make quick decisions needed in competition design.
I'm not all that surprised at the relatively few entries.
(several paragraphs snipped)
Anyways - looking forward to Chip getting around to posting the designs - based on experience, it will take about a week. And also based on experience, to tease Chip a little - he will probably start a new contest shortly after getting the voting done for this contest, where the rules for the next one probably will be "must fit inside football field, no other restrictions"
Smile, Stein
How about, "1:8 (or larger) scale live steam/diesel, must fit inside standard soccer field." Or, "1:1 scale, any gauge, must fit inside Rhode Island."
More seriously, aside from being one of the (computer) graphically challenged, I simply don't detail-design my trackwork until I am on the verge of building it. My last (never completed) layout was a half-a-garage-filler, and I thought about resurrecting the plan and entering it - only to realize that I had never fully designed it. I don't think a rectangle labeled Tomikawa would meet the requirement for a fully-developed passenger station/engine change point with a small freight yard, two interchanges, local freight spots and a puzzle palace throat with several double slips.
My present double-garage-filler is pretty much the same. I know where the L-girders (actually C girders - steel studs) will go, but everything else not already built is set in fresh Jell-O. That includes the edge of the fascia and the exact locations of several local control panels.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with minimal planning)
Mousewatch day 4
Have fun with your trains
steinjr wrote:Odave also had a nice Michigan based 10x18 plan...
Which is one reason I didn't submit anything, as I found myself getting stuck in my own rut . I was playing around with an N scale layout based on the Port Huron & Detroit for this contest, but I've had a lot of work and family activity lately and couldn't devote enough of my free time to put something decent together.
I'm also looking forward to seeing what people came up with since this space is so close to my own.
Day 3 mousewatch
Oops, it wasn't the "Vail and Southwestern" guy. My apologizies!
It was the "Nik-and-Dad" guy.
Sorry about that.
I'm so ashamed...
Mike
Hey, I'm new, wanted to submit a plan but missed the deadline, but hope to be there for the next one!
Having said that, why don't we all put our heads together and help the "Vail and Southwestern" guy design a layout for him and his 8 yr old son. (See the other topic in forum)
seems like a great layout design contest...
just an idea,
Guess maybe it should have been the whole garage, but then like you say, not an easy thing to scratch up in a couple of weeks of designing, suppose those of us with something, anything, already in hand, do have an advantage their.
Oh Well, I like your idea, next time maybe we should try something really staggering, I still have my sketches for my retirement layout, Los Angeles.....ALL of LA, circa 1940!...only needs about oh...40' x 40'?... Oh Chip?
For one thing, the "half of 20x20 garage" format doesn't really represent any new design challenges that was not already present in the 10x12 format. In principle, it is an 8 foot longer canvas with even fewer restrictions than in the 10x12 contest. Like being able to walk through the second car space for access, being able to totally ignore the location of doors and possibly even being able to open the garage door for access to one of the short sides that is nominally "up against a wall".
Secondly - 10x20 may very well be a too large space for a casual design. It may work very well if you already have a design this size you can just modify/clean up and post.
Looking at my modelling preferences (roughly: diesels, local switching, Midwestern, prototype inspired) 10x20 would be a plenty big enough space for a design e.g. along the lines of Michael Maas' 8x22 feet "South Central Minnesota" from the November 2005 Model Railroader (Track plan database entry here - MR subscribers only access), where you have two railroads (the C&NW and the Milwaukee Road) running more or less parallell through the landscape serving different industries in the same towns, with a union depot and an interchange track strategically located.
Or a version of the 15x18 "Minnesota and International" from the January 2006 Model Railroader, track plan here.
Or for that matter - maybe a stretched version of Blair Koostra's excellent West Coast based 10x11 "Walla Walla Valley" from the 2005 Great Model Railroads, track plan here.
Odave also had a nice Michigan based 10x18 plan he posted in this forum (thread here) that would have fit into this space like a hand in a glove.
Space is plenty big enough for interesting designs. But it may be a bit on the big side for casual design.
Day 2 - mouse watch
steinjr wrote: vsmith wrote: So we only got 4 entries total? Wow....how many entries were there on the 4x8 contest? Yet we have pages of never ending debates about why large area layouts in this type of area are better than the obiquitous 4x8 in the middle of the game room, but when given the opportunity to show their stuff... Not to mess up your rhetorics but: The 4x8 contest gathered 13 contest entries The 2x8 shelf layout contest gathered 13 contest entries The 10x12 contest gathered 17 contest entries. The sheet-of-ply contest gather 10 contest entries and This last one half of a double car carage (10x20) contest gathered 4 entries No glaringly obvious 4x8 bias there Anyways - good luck to the contest participants! Smile, Stein
vsmith wrote: So we only got 4 entries total? Wow....how many entries were there on the 4x8 contest? Yet we have pages of never ending debates about why large area layouts in this type of area are better than the obiquitous 4x8 in the middle of the game room, but when given the opportunity to show their stuff...
So we only got 4 entries total? Wow....how many entries were there on the 4x8 contest? Yet we have pages of never ending debates about why large area layouts in this type of area are better than the obiquitous 4x8 in the middle of the game room, but when given the opportunity to show their stuff...
Not to mess up your rhetorics but:
The 4x8 contest gathered 13 contest entries The 2x8 shelf layout contest gathered 13 contest entries The 10x12 contest gathered 17 contest entries. The sheet-of-ply contest gather 10 contest entries and This last one half of a double car carage (10x20) contest gathered 4 entries
No glaringly obvious 4x8 bias there
Anyways - good luck to the contest participants!
Only 4 entries and I came in seventh place again! LOL.
BTW I also feel that the 4x8 is ineffecient use of space.
My "more smoke than fire" in my first comment come from that I am very dissappointed that we only got 4 entries when there are so many here who are capable of producing a responce to the challenge given, yet less than a handfull responded.
If a hamfist like me can come up with something for the last few competitions, including two outside the scale I'm used to working in, I was expecting a better response to this contest from those who have more experience designing layouts like this...and even though my layout was already in existance, I still had to redraw it to something presentable, and that took some time doing.
steinjr wrote: vsmith wrote: Given that we had (having) a rather heated debate here where one poster asked for suggestions to help rebuild an existing 4x8 benchwork he had, and instead out came all the 4x8-are-poo-poo comments touting the superiority of the "if-you-have-room-for-a-4x8-you-have-room-for-a-dedicated-around-the-room-layout" school of thought that this contest exemplifies. Luckily it died down, but I would have thought this contest would be the champion of those who follow that phylosophy and all these commentors had the opportunity to demonstrate their skills and show that such was true....guess it turns out theres more smoke than actual fire. It would be a shame to let you keep trolling so actively without getting at least one hit on your fishing line, so allow me to offer you a word of unsolicited advice: a reasonably well adjusted and reasonably well educated adult ought to be able to take a swing at an argument he or she disagrees with, instead of taking a swing at the person or persons behind the opposing argument. Smile, Stein
vsmith wrote: Given that we had (having) a rather heated debate here where one poster asked for suggestions to help rebuild an existing 4x8 benchwork he had, and instead out came all the 4x8-are-poo-poo comments touting the superiority of the "if-you-have-room-for-a-4x8-you-have-room-for-a-dedicated-around-the-room-layout" school of thought that this contest exemplifies. Luckily it died down, but I would have thought this contest would be the champion of those who follow that phylosophy and all these commentors had the opportunity to demonstrate their skills and show that such was true....guess it turns out theres more smoke than actual fire.
Given that we had (having) a rather heated debate here where one poster asked for suggestions to help rebuild an existing 4x8 benchwork he had, and instead out came all the 4x8-are-poo-poo comments touting the superiority of the "if-you-have-room-for-a-4x8-you-have-room-for-a-dedicated-around-the-room-layout" school of thought that this contest exemplifies. Luckily it died down, but I would have thought this contest would be the champion of those who follow that phylosophy and all these commentors had the opportunity to demonstrate their skills and show that such was true....guess it turns out theres more smoke than actual fire.
It would be a shame to let you keep trolling so actively without getting at least one hit on your fishing line, so allow me to offer you a word of unsolicited advice: a reasonably well adjusted and reasonably well educated adult ought to be able to take a swing at an argument he or she disagrees with, instead of taking a swing at the person or persons behind the opposing argument.
Whoa, hold up there Pilgrim, I was speaking in generalisms, not at anyone person in particular...methinks maybe your taking something personally that wasnt ment or intended to be directed at you. If thats the way you took it, sorry bout that, its not what was intended.
This issue about the 4x8-vs-around-the-room has come up long before whenever anyone has mention the dreaded 4x8 and it has been happpeneing for as long as I have been on this forum... and thats going back a mighty ways, almost to the very beginning. Thats what I was referring too. Not trying to pick a bone with you.
So please dont dangle the troll bait in front of me, your fishing under the wrong bridge.
Well yeees, but we would should have alot more than 4 entries...
This isnt much different than the 10x12 contest, only wider, and certainly very like the archtypical basement approach. Given that we had (having) a rather heated debate here where one poster asked for suggestions to help rebuild an existing 4x8 benchwork he had, and instead out came all the 4x8-are-poo-poo comments touting the superiority of the "if-you-have-room-for-a-4x8-you-have-room-for-a-dedicated-around-the-room-layout" school of thought that this contest exemplifies. Luckily it died down, but I would have thought this contest would be the champion of those who follow that phylosophy and all these commentors had the opportunity to demonstrate their skills and show that such was true....guess it turns out theres more smoke than actual fire.
So much for that theory.
Actually I think it would be hilarious if just one the entries turned out to be a 4x8 sitting plunk in the middle of the garage
vsmith wrote:So we only got 4 entries total? Wow....how many entries were there on the 4x8 contest? Yet we have pages of never ending debates about why large area layouts in this type of area are better than the obiquitous 4x8 in the middle of the game room, but when given the opportunity to show their stuff...
Anyway ...Mousewatch on:
Three external entries. This one was a little tougher because it took more work. So if you count only people that don't already have a garage layout, then we got one entry other than me. It seems it was too much to ask.
And I'll be slow getting them up. My train stuff is on my basement computer and it is not up to snuff. Computer guy is coming tomorrow. Ever since I moved my Novell Server into my house nothing has worked quite right.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Bump 2
Deadline has past, Any further entries?
bump
5 days to go, long holiday weekend, should be a few more entries hopefully coming soon.
You should have my entry now.
P.S. BUMP
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JR7582 My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcfan/
vsmith wrote:Chip, just a thought but maybe the layouts when submitted should be done so in an east-west format, not the north-south orientation as shown on page 1, so your getting 800 w x600 h format and not 600 w x 800 h? Save some space that way.
The track plan / drawing would be too small. The vertical format would work best. I just converted mine from horizontal to vertical and can see the details better.
BTW, nothing was mentioned about length, just has to be 800 pixles wide.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Don,,, I was not trying to mean spirited, or hateful. People say I come across that way.LOL
As for the ext door going from garage to outside,, I have one of those too,,,,,,lolololol. It aloows access to the backyard. The only other access is a gate in the fence.. which was made by a wood butcher,, because it takes a 100T crane to get it to move.
That door is a half glass unit,, with the window opening,, which works great for my exhuast and fresh air intake for my portable A/C unit.
I apologize if I sounded upset,, mad at world,, angry, mad,, po'd, hateful,,disgusted,,,I can make that list last a long time,,,, my wife always adds new words to it daily.LOL
Time to go make the doughnuts,lol,,, or should I say excavator buckets.
Adios wyatt