traindaddy1 wrote: You know, I never gave much thought to ethnic representation.
You know, I never gave much thought to ethnic representation.
jackn2mpu wrote:So, as a warning, if you do a layout with ethnic other than white people on it, and you post pics of it, be prepared for the negative onslaught, unfortunately.
Displaying the Confederate flag on a layout may upset some people, as it is an uncomfortable reminder of a time when blacks were mistreated, but simply having black figures on the layout would be no reason for a "negative onslaught."
Well Preiser does make a set called something like "foreign visitors" that has black, asian, and middle eastern people in it; there are a few other blacks in other sets too. They also make some asian figures, including IIRC a set of Japanese RR workers. Woodland Scenics has several sets out with black people in different walks of life - driving cars, logging, railroaders etc.
I think part of it is the fact that the big figure manufacturers, Preiser and others (Merten) that are commonly used on model railroads worldwide are German or Austrian, so are making figures based on their country's population.
Plus...this might be getting into another touchy subject...how many US model railroaders are non-whites?? I suspect the pct. of white modellers is higher than the pct. of white people in the US population. I can only recall seeing a couple of black modellers in MR over the years, right now I can't think of any Asian modellers.
Now, I don't mean white modellers would only want white figures on their layout, or anything like that, but unless they're modelling an area where there were a large black population (like the South, or a big city like New York, Chicago, Detroit etc.) it might just not occur to a white model railroader that 'hey, I need to get some black (or asian) figures on the layout'.
yougottawanta wrote:I will probably take a beating for this but it needs to be said.
And it didn't "need to be said." You are far from the first person to express this sentiment. We've heard it before, many times.
By the way, "gordo" means "fat."
Hi, Stix.
Don't know how many Americans of Japanese descent are currently model railroaders (my son isn't, even though I've tried!) but at least one past president of the NMRA was.
As for how many Japanese who live in Japan are model railroaders - probably more than Americans of ANY descent. Japanese culture is VERY railroad oriented.
For the record, my own ancestors (two and three generations back) came from Poland, Ireland and Bavaria. I was born in 'New Yawk.' Doesn't that make me a 'native' American?
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
MisterBeasley wrote: I suspect that "flesh" is like "gray." It's not meant as a social comment, merely as a specific spectral combination. Actually, I don't think it matches up very well with Caucasian skin tones, either. It kind of looks like the back of Darth Vader's head inside that helmet, sort of sickly and pale, untouched by sunlight or air.
I suspect that "flesh" is like "gray." It's not meant as a social comment, merely as a specific spectral combination. Actually, I don't think it matches up very well with Caucasian skin tones, either. It kind of looks like the back of Darth Vader's head inside that helmet, sort of sickly and pale, untouched by sunlight or air.
I believe that you're right. There is no malice on the part of the manufacturers, in my opinion. Even so, they could do better. I find it difficult to mix convincing skin colors - all of mine look like the person is either dead or seriously ill. I'd love it of the manufacturers would come up with a spectrum of skin tone paints and just name them Skin Tone #1, #2, #3, etc. I'll look through the glass bottle to choose the one that I feel works best for my situation.
I'm not really offended by the fact that the color labeled "Flesh" is peach colored, but it bugs me. There may be a message that it is sending, even though most of us don't want it sent. I really thought that by the time 2008 rolled around that such paint color/label combinations would have long since faded into history.
Try to imagine this scene: We are looking in on a paint manufacturer's production line and there is someone who has skin other than white, and he/she is pouring peach-colored paint into bottles marked "Flesh." The picture that creates in my mind makes me sad. If for no one other than that production worker, the paint manufacturers should be more sensitive.
BTW, I recently purchased a package of truck drivers - unpainted. There isn't a woman in that whole package of drivers.
Hey, you paint and figure manufacturers! Wake up! The world is changing and you're not keeping up.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Actually, the manufacturers have it pretty right. Fresh human flesh is pretty much peach colored, once you wash the hemoglobin red off it. So is pork. Is that why cannibal barbecue was referred to as 'long pig?'
OTOH, unless you're modeling the coroner's workshop, that's a color that isn't seen very often.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - without dissected model corpses)
wjstix wrote:Plus...this might be getting into another touchy subject...how many US model railroaders are non-whites?? I suspect the pct. of white modellers is higher than the pct. of white people in the US population. I can only recall seeing a couple of black modellers in MR over the years, right now I can't think of any Asian modellers.
Well, of the 50 or so model railroaders I know by name, four (one deceased) are black. Can't think of any other "ethnic" modelers. Only three women as well, and they're more toy train collectors as opposed to active modelers.
I don't think there would be a negative reaction to more diverse figures, but I guess it would depend on what those figures were doing. If they're all taggers and porters, that company had best put on it's asbestos underwear.
Rotorranch wrote: Well said, AirslideCyde! I know of many modelers of diverse colors, but to date, no green or grey ones!
Fascinating. But those of us who have lived long and prospered have indeed become "grey" model railroaders.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley wrote: Rotorranch wrote: Well said, AirslideCyde! I know of many modelers of diverse colors, but to date, no green or grey ones! Fascinating. But those of us who have lived long and prospered have indeed become "grey" model railroaders.
Good point! As a member of the "grey" set, I'll also point out that the prepainted figure sets seem a little deficient when it comes to chronologically enhanced folks like me (and, I presume, Mister Beasley).
shayfan84325 wrote: MisterBeasley wrote: Rotorranch wrote: Well said, AirslideCyde! I know of many modelers of diverse colors, but to date, no green or grey ones! Fascinating. But those of us who have lived long and prospered have indeed become "grey" model railroaders.Good point! As a member of the "grey" set, I'll also point out that the prepainted figure sets seem a little deficient when it comes to chronologically enhanced folks like me (and, I presume, Mister Beasley).
Hey! I resemble that!
For that matter, has anyone seen any appropriate figures for my planned sumo tournament? Not just fat, but SUMO fat (most of which is actually muscle!)
jackn2mpu wrote: orsonroy wrote: Getting back on track, the hobby DOES need more diversity in its figure packs, but not in the way that they're doing so. Woodland Scenics has perhaps the best variety, but they mix up the races as if all the sets were to be used by post-1970 modelers. Sad truth is that for most of what we modelers like to model (the "transitional" era of roughly 1945-1965) segregation in ALL things was the order of the day. That most of us don't model that correctly (I've never seen a "Whites Only" water fountain on a steam-era Southern layout, for example) is partially racism, partially the inability to find enough of the correct figures needed, partialy ignorance of the past, and partially rose-colored glasses.There was only one nationally-known modeler (he's more known for his videos) that even attemped to model the era you cite above and he got creamed for it. I'm talking about Allen Keller. He'd had a couple of pictures of his layout in MR which had the old rebel flag (which is considered racist now) flying in front of a courthouse IIRC. The mail condemning that was plentiful. He said in his defense that he was just trying to accurately model the South as it was in his particular time period. So, as a warning, if you do a layout with ethnic other than white people on it, and you post pics of it, be prepared for the negative onslaught, unfortunately.
orsonroy wrote: Getting back on track, the hobby DOES need more diversity in its figure packs, but not in the way that they're doing so. Woodland Scenics has perhaps the best variety, but they mix up the races as if all the sets were to be used by post-1970 modelers. Sad truth is that for most of what we modelers like to model (the "transitional" era of roughly 1945-1965) segregation in ALL things was the order of the day. That most of us don't model that correctly (I've never seen a "Whites Only" water fountain on a steam-era Southern layout, for example) is partially racism, partially the inability to find enough of the correct figures needed, partialy ignorance of the past, and partially rose-colored glasses.
Getting back on track, the hobby DOES need more diversity in its figure packs, but not in the way that they're doing so. Woodland Scenics has perhaps the best variety, but they mix up the races as if all the sets were to be used by post-1970 modelers. Sad truth is that for most of what we modelers like to model (the "transitional" era of roughly 1945-1965) segregation in ALL things was the order of the day. That most of us don't model that correctly (I've never seen a "Whites Only" water fountain on a steam-era Southern layout, for example) is partially racism, partially the inability to find enough of the correct figures needed, partialy ignorance of the past, and partially rose-colored glasses.
There was only one nationally-known modeler (he's more known for his videos) that even attemped to model the era you cite above and he got creamed for it. I'm talking about Allen Keller. He'd had a couple of pictures of his layout in MR which had the old rebel flag (which is considered racist now) flying in front of a courthouse IIRC. The mail condemning that was plentiful. He said in his defense that he was just trying to accurately model the South as it was in his particular time period. So, as a warning, if you do a layout with ethnic other than white people on it, and you post pics of it, be prepared for the negative onslaught, unfortunately.
strangely enough, i have an old Georgia state flag (which is a rebel flag combined with the state symbol) hanging in my train room. It covers the french style door that seperates my room from the rest of the house, but secretly i keep it up just to see peoples reaction when they come in.
the gray club comment was pretty funny - i joined that club a few years ago and am becoming closer and closer to being a full member with every passing day..YIKES!!
AirslideClyde wrote: jackn2mpu wrote: orsonroy wrote: Getting back on track, the hobby DOES need more diversity in its figure packs, but not in the way that they're doing so. Woodland Scenics has perhaps the best variety, but they mix up the races as if all the sets were to be used by post-1970 modelers. Sad truth is that for most of what we modelers like to model (the "transitional" era of roughly 1945-1965) segregation in ALL things was the order of the day. That most of us don't model that correctly (I've never seen a "Whites Only" water fountain on a steam-era Southern layout, for example) is partially racism, partially the inability to find enough of the correct figures needed, partialy ignorance of the past, and partially rose-colored glasses.There was only one nationally-known modeler (he's more known for his videos) that even attemped to model the era you cite above and he got creamed for it. I'm talking about Allen Keller. He'd had a couple of pictures of his layout in MR which had the old rebel flag (which is considered racist now) flying in front of a courthouse IIRC. The mail condemning that was plentiful. He said in his defense that he was just trying to accurately model the South as it was in his particular time period. So, as a warning, if you do a layout with ethnic other than white people on it, and you post pics of it, be prepared for the negative onslaught, unfortunately.strangely enough, i have an old Georgia state flag (which is a rebel flag combined with the state symbol) hanging in my train room. It covers the french style door that seperates my room from the rest of the house, but secretly i keep it up just to see peoples reaction when they come in.the gray club comment was pretty funny - i joined that club a few years ago and am becoming closer and closer to being a full member with every passing day..YIKES!!
First off, I have nothing against the rebel flag. Ever notice Larry the Cable Guy's hat? Doesn't that have a version of it on their?
Anyways, as to becoming a member of the gray club - does that include facial hair? I don't have to worry about head hair as that's going away day by day (I'm 56), but my beard is staying rather thick and growing, and the gray hairs are taking over from the brown ones.
de N2MPU Jack
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Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CPRail/D&H in N