QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby vsmith shouldn't the small locomotives you mention have a toy like caracter to them the prototypes did. Well at least I think they have a certain toy like charm about then which is what makes them such a marketable product as a model... regards John
Have fun with your trains
Originally posted by OLD DAD I already have more locos than I have room for so will not be buying any new ones any time soon! OLD DAD Hi Old Dad Why should you be different to any one else[:D] Doesn't take long to over stock a layout then we make them bigger to cope and again and eventualy there is no room to go bigger so we end up over stocked again. I am on stage two of my layout which should ease congestion oh at least untill I see and buy or build that next load of stock that just happens to fit in[:D] regards John Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 19, 2004 8:01 AM Originally posted by OLD DAD I already have more locos than I have room for so will not be buying any new ones any time soon! OLD DAD Hi Old Dad Why should you be different to any one else[:D] Doesn't take long to over stock a layout then we make them bigger to cope and again and eventualy there is no room to go bigger so we end up over stocked again. I am on stage two of my layout which should ease congestion oh at least untill I see and buy or build that next load of stock that just happens to fit in[:D] regards John Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 19, 2004 6:58 AM I already have more locos than I have room for so will not be buying any new ones any time soon! A K27 wouldn't fit my track so even if I wanted one I wouldn't buy the thing. Each time the size increases or the price increases on this G scale stuff I am driven closer to selling off what I have and scratch building in 7/8 scale. I have switched scales in the past and can do it again if the need presents itself. For now, I plan to stay with G scale. OLD DAD Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 19, 2004 6:58 AM I already have more locos than I have room for so will not be buying any new ones any time soon! A K27 wouldn't fit my track so even if I wanted one I wouldn't buy the thing. Each time the size increases or the price increases on this G scale stuff I am driven closer to selling off what I have and scratch building in 7/8 scale. I have switched scales in the past and can do it again if the need presents itself. For now, I plan to stay with G scale. OLD DAD Reply Edit Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:30 PM A better engine than anything Oz ever had.....ooops....Phil told me to say that! D&RGW 2-8-2 outside frame. TOC Reply Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:30 PM A better engine than anything Oz ever had.....ooops....Phil told me to say that! D&RGW 2-8-2 outside frame. TOC Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 17, 2004 8:00 PM Whats a K27? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 17, 2004 8:00 PM Whats a K27? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:47 AM 1:29 USRA 2-8-8-2 Mallet is already to big need a 8' dia. curve to handle it. mfg sugg. It's all NUTS!!!!!! Hmmmmmmmm a General said that once as I recall Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:47 AM 1:29 USRA 2-8-8-2 Mallet is already to big need a 8' dia. curve to handle it. mfg sugg. It's all NUTS!!!!!! Hmmmmmmmm a General said that once as I recall Reply Edit Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:32 AM John- Right. Some of these are too big to carry or move easily, or get around curvature of sharper stature. I find the 2-8-0 to be to wide for me...it's right, but too wide. My 1:22.5 K-27 is just right. Wish I could find more of them (Magnus). I want locos that look right doing the job...our old 4-6-0's with either BBT 4-6-0 or 2-8-0 chassis, BBT straight running board kits with air tanks under the cab, and tall, straight BBT stacks, with CSCXoil tanks sets them apart...they look like the "family" here on the CCRy and look like they are designed to do exactly what they do. TOC Reply Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:32 AM John- Right. Some of these are too big to carry or move easily, or get around curvature of sharper stature. I find the 2-8-0 to be to wide for me...it's right, but too wide. My 1:22.5 K-27 is just right. Wish I could find more of them (Magnus). I want locos that look right doing the job...our old 4-6-0's with either BBT 4-6-0 or 2-8-0 chassis, BBT straight running board kits with air tanks under the cab, and tall, straight BBT stacks, with CSCXoil tanks sets them apart...they look like the "family" here on the CCRy and look like they are designed to do exactly what they do. TOC Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:06 AM Hi all K27 no thanks too big vsmith shouldn't the small locomotives you mention have a toy like caracter to them the prototypes did. Well at least I think they have a certain toy like charm about then which is what makes them such a marketable product as a model. This asside there is a shortage of reasonable quality product at reasonable prices. But I am a little concerned that the trend for larger locomotives is going to leave the small end of the market with not a lot in the way of decent choices as well regards John Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:06 AM Hi all K27 no thanks too big vsmith shouldn't the small locomotives you mention have a toy like caracter to them the prototypes did. Well at least I think they have a certain toy like charm about then which is what makes them such a marketable product as a model. This asside there is a shortage of reasonable quality product at reasonable prices. But I am a little concerned that the trend for larger locomotives is going to leave the small end of the market with not a lot in the way of decent choices as well regards John Reply Edit Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:41 PM 16,000 Shays ordered, 10,000 produced, took them 6 years for the dealers to get rid of them all (hence the 38T re-issue this year). This sqwauk entered life years ago on LySOL, a plastic K-27 for $300. I have a K-27 in 1:22.5, nice, fits with about everything. Before you ask for one in1:20, remember to be careful what you ask for. They don't fit the funniest things...like the cab handrails hit the rocks in the Gorge, the valve bodies won't fit through the turntables, the overhang knocks cars off in the terminal. We've been leaning on them for a long time, not only for a K but for 1:20 rolling stock. Best bet is to see what Colorado Prototypes Bachmann has used in the past.....might give you some insight. Yes, there has been "paint", but look to see what the prototype was. There is a lot of difference. Shipping. The 2-8-0 comes packed in a row, they would have to make a box where they are side-by-side (like Accu and Berlyn) and I don't think they're ready. Tooling costs for the bigger stuff adds a lot....I was told how much more the tooling costs to go to a 1:20 boxcar over a 1:22.5......and I don't care what you have in your shop, that's what Kader has, and they pay the bills. My Shay, first run, first shipment, out of TW, was $425. About all the big Spectrums have been $799.99 list. They all sort out shortly to $300-$400, drop off to like $279 when the discounters have to pay the rent. I deal with the front office too often, the lower echelons weekly. SOMEBODY is going to have to guarantee to Kader a minimum amount of units. Give you an idea: The new Shay. Trucks were going to be made available separately, like this summer. Requires pre-orders. Do you know how many have been pre-ordered? Why would Kader be interested in making a K-27 when they can't get folks to pre-order trucks? Unless they see a big market, it isn't going to happen. Size, cost, and interest. I know a local outfit was going to build a K-27 conversion kit for a 2-8-0 or a complete loco.....not enough interest. To keep the cost down, it has to be a larger company. TOC Reply Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:41 PM 16,000 Shays ordered, 10,000 produced, took them 6 years for the dealers to get rid of them all (hence the 38T re-issue this year). This sqwauk entered life years ago on LySOL, a plastic K-27 for $300. I have a K-27 in 1:22.5, nice, fits with about everything. Before you ask for one in1:20, remember to be careful what you ask for. They don't fit the funniest things...like the cab handrails hit the rocks in the Gorge, the valve bodies won't fit through the turntables, the overhang knocks cars off in the terminal. We've been leaning on them for a long time, not only for a K but for 1:20 rolling stock. Best bet is to see what Colorado Prototypes Bachmann has used in the past.....might give you some insight. Yes, there has been "paint", but look to see what the prototype was. There is a lot of difference. Shipping. The 2-8-0 comes packed in a row, they would have to make a box where they are side-by-side (like Accu and Berlyn) and I don't think they're ready. Tooling costs for the bigger stuff adds a lot....I was told how much more the tooling costs to go to a 1:20 boxcar over a 1:22.5......and I don't care what you have in your shop, that's what Kader has, and they pay the bills. My Shay, first run, first shipment, out of TW, was $425. About all the big Spectrums have been $799.99 list. They all sort out shortly to $300-$400, drop off to like $279 when the discounters have to pay the rent. I deal with the front office too often, the lower echelons weekly. SOMEBODY is going to have to guarantee to Kader a minimum amount of units. Give you an idea: The new Shay. Trucks were going to be made available separately, like this summer. Requires pre-orders. Do you know how many have been pre-ordered? Why would Kader be interested in making a K-27 when they can't get folks to pre-order trucks? Unless they see a big market, it isn't going to happen. Size, cost, and interest. I know a local outfit was going to build a K-27 conversion kit for a 2-8-0 or a complete loco.....not enough interest. To keep the cost down, it has to be a larger company. TOC Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:16 PM Thats a great idea. I have always wanted a K-27 but they have always been to expensive. I would like to fix one thing. LGB produced a K-28 not a K-27 Bachmann is the cheapest and that would be the best Nick Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:16 PM Thats a great idea. I have always wanted a K-27 but they have always been to expensive. I would like to fix one thing. LGB produced a K-28 not a K-27 Bachmann is the cheapest and that would be the best Nick Reply Edit vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Friday, September 26, 2003 5:19 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. Smokebox I guess you haven't gotten a good look at Bachmanns 2-8-0 Consolidation or their 4-4-0 American or the 2-6-0 Mogul, all are what I would call "finescale" and all are around +/- $300 range which I see is a very reasonable price. Just like in every other scale, I dont expect it to be cheap but at the same time I dont want someone telling me that just because I cant afford an engine thats costs $1000 then I have no business being in this hobby, thats wrong-headed and if thats the case, then G scale will never be more than just another "niche" hobby for the wealthy. Dont forget its also about OPENING NEW MARKETS and getting people interested in the hobby. If people are crying for more items like a K-27 that says there is a demand not being met, and whoever fills that demand will make a killing. For myself personally, I would rather see locomotive of the industrial sugur cane plantation variety as that is what I run, now I aint holding my breath wiating for a $100 Accucraft, I now how the market place works. But there is a definite demand for better quality and a more reasonable price. All it takes is one manufacturer produces a product that sends shockwaves thru the hobby, and the rest have to scramble to catch up. Example Look whats starting to happen with Bachmanns On30 line, they are now going to produce a 30"gauge C-16, why? because the scale is very popular with people who have always wanted to try narrow gauge but couldnt afford $30 switches that had to be handlaid or $500 brass locomotives and a C-16 is what the screaming masses want, so Bachmann is going to produce it. A C-16 in 30"gauge is not accurate? who cares? People want it and I cant wait to see what it looks like. Now other makers are starting to produce engines, including a K-27! in On30, because this is a new hot market. Another good example is Bachmanns Spectrum line which has gotten better and less expensive with each new release, the Shay was over $800 new at first run, the new Hiesler will be around $300 at the Discount dealers, the Mining Mogul which is also "finescale" is only about $100, and the new dockside porter will be less than $100 (I am holding my breath for that one). So Yes it is possible to produce "finescale" quality at $100 to $300. All it takes is a manufacturer thats willing to step up to the plate and swing. How much real difference is there manufacturing the 2-8-0 vs a K-27 when literally dozens of sites on-line tell you how easy it is to produce a close copy of it? Close enough that Bachmann could if it choses with a small reasonable amount of retooling to produce a K-27 that would be a huge hit. How popular has the Consolidation been. Alot of people had never even seen one before the model was produced. Imagine with the instant recognition that a K-27 would command. Have fun with your trains Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Friday, September 26, 2003 5:19 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. Smokebox I guess you haven't gotten a good look at Bachmanns 2-8-0 Consolidation or their 4-4-0 American or the 2-6-0 Mogul, all are what I would call "finescale" and all are around +/- $300 range which I see is a very reasonable price. Just like in every other scale, I dont expect it to be cheap but at the same time I dont want someone telling me that just because I cant afford an engine thats costs $1000 then I have no business being in this hobby, thats wrong-headed and if thats the case, then G scale will never be more than just another "niche" hobby for the wealthy. Dont forget its also about OPENING NEW MARKETS and getting people interested in the hobby. If people are crying for more items like a K-27 that says there is a demand not being met, and whoever fills that demand will make a killing. For myself personally, I would rather see locomotive of the industrial sugur cane plantation variety as that is what I run, now I aint holding my breath wiating for a $100 Accucraft, I now how the market place works. But there is a definite demand for better quality and a more reasonable price. All it takes is one manufacturer produces a product that sends shockwaves thru the hobby, and the rest have to scramble to catch up. Example Look whats starting to happen with Bachmanns On30 line, they are now going to produce a 30"gauge C-16, why? because the scale is very popular with people who have always wanted to try narrow gauge but couldnt afford $30 switches that had to be handlaid or $500 brass locomotives and a C-16 is what the screaming masses want, so Bachmann is going to produce it. A C-16 in 30"gauge is not accurate? who cares? People want it and I cant wait to see what it looks like. Now other makers are starting to produce engines, including a K-27! in On30, because this is a new hot market. Another good example is Bachmanns Spectrum line which has gotten better and less expensive with each new release, the Shay was over $800 new at first run, the new Hiesler will be around $300 at the Discount dealers, the Mining Mogul which is also "finescale" is only about $100, and the new dockside porter will be less than $100 (I am holding my breath for that one). So Yes it is possible to produce "finescale" quality at $100 to $300. All it takes is a manufacturer thats willing to step up to the plate and swing. How much real difference is there manufacturing the 2-8-0 vs a K-27 when literally dozens of sites on-line tell you how easy it is to produce a close copy of it? Close enough that Bachmann could if it choses with a small reasonable amount of retooling to produce a K-27 that would be a huge hit. How popular has the Consolidation been. Alot of people had never even seen one before the model was produced. Imagine with the instant recognition that a K-27 would command. Have fun with your trains Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 4:14 PM I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. To date the only scale RTR rolling stock that would go with a "K" class is $100.00 a car, and you would need a string of them to make up a train! IMO, a C16/19 would make alot more sense as there were many of the same style locomotive operating on NG lines around the US. These could also be offered in many different "eras" of detailing. The "K" class locomotives are almost all different and had a limited operating area. Thankfully Bachmann understands that narrow gauge doesn't have to mean "Colorado"! Smokebox Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 4:14 PM I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. To date the only scale RTR rolling stock that would go with a "K" class is $100.00 a car, and you would need a string of them to make up a train! IMO, a C16/19 would make alot more sense as there were many of the same style locomotive operating on NG lines around the US. These could also be offered in many different "eras" of detailing. The "K" class locomotives are almost all different and had a limited operating area. Thankfully Bachmann understands that narrow gauge doesn't have to mean "Colorado"! Smokebox Reply Edit vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox Yes they have been done but, 1. the LGB was a limited release, is no longer avalible and I've never seen one for sale. 2. the Accucraft is $3000 freaking dollars and only a few hundred are ever made. Just because they've been done doesnt mean we all have one. For these two, almost no one can afford them. I dont have a Trust fund to dive into for something like this so an affordable version in plastic is all we can hope for. If this is going to become a hobby only for the rich (if you have to ask the price, your in the wrong hobby) then I'll go back to HO or N. I seriously dont think the mfr's will cater to an ever smaller and richer buyer base, they will price themselfes out of the market. Thats why we want a plastic K-27,K-37, C-16, etc. Have fun with your trains Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox Yes they have been done but, 1. the LGB was a limited release, is no longer avalible and I've never seen one for sale. 2. the Accucraft is $3000 freaking dollars and only a few hundred are ever made. Just because they've been done doesnt mean we all have one. For these two, almost no one can afford them. I dont have a Trust fund to dive into for something like this so an affordable version in plastic is all we can hope for. If this is going to become a hobby only for the rich (if you have to ask the price, your in the wrong hobby) then I'll go back to HO or N. I seriously dont think the mfr's will cater to an ever smaller and richer buyer base, they will price themselfes out of the market. Thats why we want a plastic K-27,K-37, C-16, etc. Have fun with your trains Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 19, 2003 11:31 PM A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 19, 2003 11:31 PM A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 19, 2003 8:09 PM Well, one more thought: Bachmann's sold what, 5,000 shays and getting close to 5,000 climaxes i think i read. So the market is obviously out there for plastic, cheap, reliable narowgauge engines, so wouldn't a K27 be a logical next step for them? Reply Edit 123 Search the Community FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER Get the Garden Railways newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month Sign up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Garden Railways magazine. 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Originally posted by OLD DAD I already have more locos than I have room for so will not be buying any new ones any time soon! OLD DAD Hi Old Dad Why should you be different to any one else[:D] Doesn't take long to over stock a layout then we make them bigger to cope and again and eventualy there is no room to go bigger so we end up over stocked again. I am on stage two of my layout which should ease congestion oh at least untill I see and buy or build that next load of stock that just happens to fit in[:D] regards John Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 19, 2004 6:58 AM I already have more locos than I have room for so will not be buying any new ones any time soon! A K27 wouldn't fit my track so even if I wanted one I wouldn't buy the thing. Each time the size increases or the price increases on this G scale stuff I am driven closer to selling off what I have and scratch building in 7/8 scale. I have switched scales in the past and can do it again if the need presents itself. For now, I plan to stay with G scale. OLD DAD Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 19, 2004 6:58 AM I already have more locos than I have room for so will not be buying any new ones any time soon! A K27 wouldn't fit my track so even if I wanted one I wouldn't buy the thing. Each time the size increases or the price increases on this G scale stuff I am driven closer to selling off what I have and scratch building in 7/8 scale. I have switched scales in the past and can do it again if the need presents itself. For now, I plan to stay with G scale. OLD DAD Reply Edit Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:30 PM A better engine than anything Oz ever had.....ooops....Phil told me to say that! D&RGW 2-8-2 outside frame. TOC Reply Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:30 PM A better engine than anything Oz ever had.....ooops....Phil told me to say that! D&RGW 2-8-2 outside frame. TOC Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 17, 2004 8:00 PM Whats a K27? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 17, 2004 8:00 PM Whats a K27? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:47 AM 1:29 USRA 2-8-8-2 Mallet is already to big need a 8' dia. curve to handle it. mfg sugg. It's all NUTS!!!!!! Hmmmmmmmm a General said that once as I recall Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:47 AM 1:29 USRA 2-8-8-2 Mallet is already to big need a 8' dia. curve to handle it. mfg sugg. It's all NUTS!!!!!! Hmmmmmmmm a General said that once as I recall Reply Edit Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:32 AM John- Right. Some of these are too big to carry or move easily, or get around curvature of sharper stature. I find the 2-8-0 to be to wide for me...it's right, but too wide. My 1:22.5 K-27 is just right. Wish I could find more of them (Magnus). I want locos that look right doing the job...our old 4-6-0's with either BBT 4-6-0 or 2-8-0 chassis, BBT straight running board kits with air tanks under the cab, and tall, straight BBT stacks, with CSCXoil tanks sets them apart...they look like the "family" here on the CCRy and look like they are designed to do exactly what they do. TOC Reply Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:32 AM John- Right. Some of these are too big to carry or move easily, or get around curvature of sharper stature. I find the 2-8-0 to be to wide for me...it's right, but too wide. My 1:22.5 K-27 is just right. Wish I could find more of them (Magnus). I want locos that look right doing the job...our old 4-6-0's with either BBT 4-6-0 or 2-8-0 chassis, BBT straight running board kits with air tanks under the cab, and tall, straight BBT stacks, with CSCXoil tanks sets them apart...they look like the "family" here on the CCRy and look like they are designed to do exactly what they do. TOC Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:06 AM Hi all K27 no thanks too big vsmith shouldn't the small locomotives you mention have a toy like caracter to them the prototypes did. Well at least I think they have a certain toy like charm about then which is what makes them such a marketable product as a model. This asside there is a shortage of reasonable quality product at reasonable prices. But I am a little concerned that the trend for larger locomotives is going to leave the small end of the market with not a lot in the way of decent choices as well regards John Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 16, 2004 12:06 AM Hi all K27 no thanks too big vsmith shouldn't the small locomotives you mention have a toy like caracter to them the prototypes did. Well at least I think they have a certain toy like charm about then which is what makes them such a marketable product as a model. This asside there is a shortage of reasonable quality product at reasonable prices. But I am a little concerned that the trend for larger locomotives is going to leave the small end of the market with not a lot in the way of decent choices as well regards John Reply Edit Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:41 PM 16,000 Shays ordered, 10,000 produced, took them 6 years for the dealers to get rid of them all (hence the 38T re-issue this year). This sqwauk entered life years ago on LySOL, a plastic K-27 for $300. I have a K-27 in 1:22.5, nice, fits with about everything. Before you ask for one in1:20, remember to be careful what you ask for. They don't fit the funniest things...like the cab handrails hit the rocks in the Gorge, the valve bodies won't fit through the turntables, the overhang knocks cars off in the terminal. We've been leaning on them for a long time, not only for a K but for 1:20 rolling stock. Best bet is to see what Colorado Prototypes Bachmann has used in the past.....might give you some insight. Yes, there has been "paint", but look to see what the prototype was. There is a lot of difference. Shipping. The 2-8-0 comes packed in a row, they would have to make a box where they are side-by-side (like Accu and Berlyn) and I don't think they're ready. Tooling costs for the bigger stuff adds a lot....I was told how much more the tooling costs to go to a 1:20 boxcar over a 1:22.5......and I don't care what you have in your shop, that's what Kader has, and they pay the bills. My Shay, first run, first shipment, out of TW, was $425. About all the big Spectrums have been $799.99 list. They all sort out shortly to $300-$400, drop off to like $279 when the discounters have to pay the rent. I deal with the front office too often, the lower echelons weekly. SOMEBODY is going to have to guarantee to Kader a minimum amount of units. Give you an idea: The new Shay. Trucks were going to be made available separately, like this summer. Requires pre-orders. Do you know how many have been pre-ordered? Why would Kader be interested in making a K-27 when they can't get folks to pre-order trucks? Unless they see a big market, it isn't going to happen. Size, cost, and interest. I know a local outfit was going to build a K-27 conversion kit for a 2-8-0 or a complete loco.....not enough interest. To keep the cost down, it has to be a larger company. TOC Reply Curmudgeon Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 1,386 posts Posted by Curmudgeon on Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:41 PM 16,000 Shays ordered, 10,000 produced, took them 6 years for the dealers to get rid of them all (hence the 38T re-issue this year). This sqwauk entered life years ago on LySOL, a plastic K-27 for $300. I have a K-27 in 1:22.5, nice, fits with about everything. Before you ask for one in1:20, remember to be careful what you ask for. They don't fit the funniest things...like the cab handrails hit the rocks in the Gorge, the valve bodies won't fit through the turntables, the overhang knocks cars off in the terminal. We've been leaning on them for a long time, not only for a K but for 1:20 rolling stock. Best bet is to see what Colorado Prototypes Bachmann has used in the past.....might give you some insight. Yes, there has been "paint", but look to see what the prototype was. There is a lot of difference. Shipping. The 2-8-0 comes packed in a row, they would have to make a box where they are side-by-side (like Accu and Berlyn) and I don't think they're ready. Tooling costs for the bigger stuff adds a lot....I was told how much more the tooling costs to go to a 1:20 boxcar over a 1:22.5......and I don't care what you have in your shop, that's what Kader has, and they pay the bills. My Shay, first run, first shipment, out of TW, was $425. About all the big Spectrums have been $799.99 list. They all sort out shortly to $300-$400, drop off to like $279 when the discounters have to pay the rent. I deal with the front office too often, the lower echelons weekly. SOMEBODY is going to have to guarantee to Kader a minimum amount of units. Give you an idea: The new Shay. Trucks were going to be made available separately, like this summer. Requires pre-orders. Do you know how many have been pre-ordered? Why would Kader be interested in making a K-27 when they can't get folks to pre-order trucks? Unless they see a big market, it isn't going to happen. Size, cost, and interest. I know a local outfit was going to build a K-27 conversion kit for a 2-8-0 or a complete loco.....not enough interest. To keep the cost down, it has to be a larger company. TOC Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:16 PM Thats a great idea. I have always wanted a K-27 but they have always been to expensive. I would like to fix one thing. LGB produced a K-28 not a K-27 Bachmann is the cheapest and that would be the best Nick Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:16 PM Thats a great idea. I have always wanted a K-27 but they have always been to expensive. I would like to fix one thing. LGB produced a K-28 not a K-27 Bachmann is the cheapest and that would be the best Nick Reply Edit vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Friday, September 26, 2003 5:19 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. Smokebox I guess you haven't gotten a good look at Bachmanns 2-8-0 Consolidation or their 4-4-0 American or the 2-6-0 Mogul, all are what I would call "finescale" and all are around +/- $300 range which I see is a very reasonable price. Just like in every other scale, I dont expect it to be cheap but at the same time I dont want someone telling me that just because I cant afford an engine thats costs $1000 then I have no business being in this hobby, thats wrong-headed and if thats the case, then G scale will never be more than just another "niche" hobby for the wealthy. Dont forget its also about OPENING NEW MARKETS and getting people interested in the hobby. If people are crying for more items like a K-27 that says there is a demand not being met, and whoever fills that demand will make a killing. For myself personally, I would rather see locomotive of the industrial sugur cane plantation variety as that is what I run, now I aint holding my breath wiating for a $100 Accucraft, I now how the market place works. But there is a definite demand for better quality and a more reasonable price. All it takes is one manufacturer produces a product that sends shockwaves thru the hobby, and the rest have to scramble to catch up. Example Look whats starting to happen with Bachmanns On30 line, they are now going to produce a 30"gauge C-16, why? because the scale is very popular with people who have always wanted to try narrow gauge but couldnt afford $30 switches that had to be handlaid or $500 brass locomotives and a C-16 is what the screaming masses want, so Bachmann is going to produce it. A C-16 in 30"gauge is not accurate? who cares? People want it and I cant wait to see what it looks like. Now other makers are starting to produce engines, including a K-27! in On30, because this is a new hot market. Another good example is Bachmanns Spectrum line which has gotten better and less expensive with each new release, the Shay was over $800 new at first run, the new Hiesler will be around $300 at the Discount dealers, the Mining Mogul which is also "finescale" is only about $100, and the new dockside porter will be less than $100 (I am holding my breath for that one). So Yes it is possible to produce "finescale" quality at $100 to $300. All it takes is a manufacturer thats willing to step up to the plate and swing. How much real difference is there manufacturing the 2-8-0 vs a K-27 when literally dozens of sites on-line tell you how easy it is to produce a close copy of it? Close enough that Bachmann could if it choses with a small reasonable amount of retooling to produce a K-27 that would be a huge hit. How popular has the Consolidation been. Alot of people had never even seen one before the model was produced. Imagine with the instant recognition that a K-27 would command. Have fun with your trains Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Friday, September 26, 2003 5:19 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. Smokebox I guess you haven't gotten a good look at Bachmanns 2-8-0 Consolidation or their 4-4-0 American or the 2-6-0 Mogul, all are what I would call "finescale" and all are around +/- $300 range which I see is a very reasonable price. Just like in every other scale, I dont expect it to be cheap but at the same time I dont want someone telling me that just because I cant afford an engine thats costs $1000 then I have no business being in this hobby, thats wrong-headed and if thats the case, then G scale will never be more than just another "niche" hobby for the wealthy. Dont forget its also about OPENING NEW MARKETS and getting people interested in the hobby. If people are crying for more items like a K-27 that says there is a demand not being met, and whoever fills that demand will make a killing. For myself personally, I would rather see locomotive of the industrial sugur cane plantation variety as that is what I run, now I aint holding my breath wiating for a $100 Accucraft, I now how the market place works. But there is a definite demand for better quality and a more reasonable price. All it takes is one manufacturer produces a product that sends shockwaves thru the hobby, and the rest have to scramble to catch up. Example Look whats starting to happen with Bachmanns On30 line, they are now going to produce a 30"gauge C-16, why? because the scale is very popular with people who have always wanted to try narrow gauge but couldnt afford $30 switches that had to be handlaid or $500 brass locomotives and a C-16 is what the screaming masses want, so Bachmann is going to produce it. A C-16 in 30"gauge is not accurate? who cares? People want it and I cant wait to see what it looks like. Now other makers are starting to produce engines, including a K-27! in On30, because this is a new hot market. Another good example is Bachmanns Spectrum line which has gotten better and less expensive with each new release, the Shay was over $800 new at first run, the new Hiesler will be around $300 at the Discount dealers, the Mining Mogul which is also "finescale" is only about $100, and the new dockside porter will be less than $100 (I am holding my breath for that one). So Yes it is possible to produce "finescale" quality at $100 to $300. All it takes is a manufacturer thats willing to step up to the plate and swing. How much real difference is there manufacturing the 2-8-0 vs a K-27 when literally dozens of sites on-line tell you how easy it is to produce a close copy of it? Close enough that Bachmann could if it choses with a small reasonable amount of retooling to produce a K-27 that would be a huge hit. How popular has the Consolidation been. Alot of people had never even seen one before the model was produced. Imagine with the instant recognition that a K-27 would command. Have fun with your trains Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 4:14 PM I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. To date the only scale RTR rolling stock that would go with a "K" class is $100.00 a car, and you would need a string of them to make up a train! IMO, a C16/19 would make alot more sense as there were many of the same style locomotive operating on NG lines around the US. These could also be offered in many different "eras" of detailing. The "K" class locomotives are almost all different and had a limited operating area. Thankfully Bachmann understands that narrow gauge doesn't have to mean "Colorado"! Smokebox Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 4:14 PM I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. To date the only scale RTR rolling stock that would go with a "K" class is $100.00 a car, and you would need a string of them to make up a train! IMO, a C16/19 would make alot more sense as there were many of the same style locomotive operating on NG lines around the US. These could also be offered in many different "eras" of detailing. The "K" class locomotives are almost all different and had a limited operating area. Thankfully Bachmann understands that narrow gauge doesn't have to mean "Colorado"! Smokebox Reply Edit vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox Yes they have been done but, 1. the LGB was a limited release, is no longer avalible and I've never seen one for sale. 2. the Accucraft is $3000 freaking dollars and only a few hundred are ever made. Just because they've been done doesnt mean we all have one. For these two, almost no one can afford them. I dont have a Trust fund to dive into for something like this so an affordable version in plastic is all we can hope for. If this is going to become a hobby only for the rich (if you have to ask the price, your in the wrong hobby) then I'll go back to HO or N. I seriously dont think the mfr's will cater to an ever smaller and richer buyer base, they will price themselfes out of the market. Thats why we want a plastic K-27,K-37, C-16, etc. Have fun with your trains Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox Yes they have been done but, 1. the LGB was a limited release, is no longer avalible and I've never seen one for sale. 2. the Accucraft is $3000 freaking dollars and only a few hundred are ever made. Just because they've been done doesnt mean we all have one. For these two, almost no one can afford them. I dont have a Trust fund to dive into for something like this so an affordable version in plastic is all we can hope for. If this is going to become a hobby only for the rich (if you have to ask the price, your in the wrong hobby) then I'll go back to HO or N. I seriously dont think the mfr's will cater to an ever smaller and richer buyer base, they will price themselfes out of the market. Thats why we want a plastic K-27,K-37, C-16, etc. Have fun with your trains Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 19, 2003 11:31 PM A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 19, 2003 11:31 PM A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 19, 2003 8:09 PM Well, one more thought: Bachmann's sold what, 5,000 shays and getting close to 5,000 climaxes i think i read. So the market is obviously out there for plastic, cheap, reliable narowgauge engines, so wouldn't a K27 be a logical next step for them? Reply Edit 123 Search the Community FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER Get the Garden Railways newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month Sign up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Garden Railways magazine. 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QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. Smokebox
QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1 A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should. Smokebox
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