A plastic 1.20.3 K-27?

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[vsmith]

Of course I would like to see one, read my ranting posting regarding "what products are needed" I said there why are all the new product being geared toward 1:32/1:29 mainliners while the 1:24/1:22.5/1:20.3 narrow gaugers are getting screwed? Bachmann is the ONLY company actively making new high quality/reasonably priced products for narrow guage. I cant afford Accucrafts prices, LGB isnt any better. I am left with 3 mfrs to chose from Bachmann, HLW, and MDC. MDC only run production when they feal like it (and only 1 loco?). I like HLW as a company but their locos are really toylike for the prices they charge (2-4-0, 2-4-4,4-4-0), that just leaves the Big B for affordable high quality locos. If these other companies arent carefull they could put themselves right out of business by the shear inertia of their unchangability.

[vsmith]

Of course I would like to see one, read my ranting posting regarding "what products are needed" I said there why are all the new product being geared toward 1:32/1:29 mainliners while the 1:24/1:22.5/1:20.3 narrow gaugers are getting screwed? Bachmann is the ONLY company actively making new high quality/reasonably priced products for narrow guage. I cant afford Accucrafts prices, LGB isnt any better. I am left with 3 mfrs to chose from Bachmann, HLW, and MDC. MDC only run production when they feal like it (and only 1 loco?). I like HLW as a company but their locos are really toylike for the prices they charge (2-4-0, 2-4-4,4-4-0), that just leaves the Big B for affordable high quality locos. If these other companies arent carefull they could put themselves right out of business by the shear inertia of their unchangability.

[Anonymous]

I want one NOW! I agree completely with V.Smith. Give us one in 1:22.5 scale. The one that LGB did in brass a couple of years back matched the rolling stock perfectly! Give us one just like it but in the more affordable plastic version!!!!
Ted Yarbrough

[Anonymous]

I want one NOW! I agree completely with V.Smith. Give us one in 1:22.5 scale. The one that LGB did in brass a couple of years back matched the rolling stock perfectly! Give us one just like it but in the more affordable plastic version!!!!
Ted Yarbrough

[Anonymous]

I completely agree with making a plastic K-27. I would buy it in a heartbeat. Having a cool engine like that would be very popular with everyone who models narrow gauge.

[Anonymous]

I completely agree with making a plastic K-27. I would buy it in a heartbeat. Having a cool engine like that would be very popular with everyone who models narrow gauge.

[vsmith]

On Bachmanns "ask the Bach man" someone asked the same question about using the 2-8-0 connie as a base to do a K-27 or a K-28. The reply from Bachmann was that they would not do it simply because it would be too big for them to make and that few people would have the wide radius curves to run it on ( ? ) but that they were considering a 2-8-0 C-16 based on the same chassis.

Personally I think this story is pure BS and that they have probably already built prototypes based on the 1/2 dozen websites out there in electric-land that will show you just how easy it is to convert the little beasty. Afterall isnt AristoCraft going to produce a 2-6-6-2 Mallet? For crying out loud, what kind of turns will THAT monster need. The curves are out there, otherwise where are all these big diesel models going too? Sounds like a Big B smoke screen to me. Lets hope the "Bach Man" has a little Rio Grande surprise for us next year.

Now I would also LOVE to see a C-16 in 1:22.5 or 1:20.3 and hope they do produce that one also. I also hope that they will give us a 1:20.3 version of the Plymouth siderod critter they are doing in On30.

[vsmith]

On Bachmanns "ask the Bach man" someone asked the same question about using the 2-8-0 connie as a base to do a K-27 or a K-28. The reply from Bachmann was that they would not do it simply because it would be too big for them to make and that few people would have the wide radius curves to run it on ( ? ) but that they were considering a 2-8-0 C-16 based on the same chassis.

Personally I think this story is pure BS and that they have probably already built prototypes based on the 1/2 dozen websites out there in electric-land that will show you just how easy it is to convert the little beasty. Afterall isnt AristoCraft going to produce a 2-6-6-2 Mallet? For crying out loud, what kind of turns will THAT monster need. The curves are out there, otherwise where are all these big diesel models going too? Sounds like a Big B smoke screen to me. Lets hope the "Bach Man" has a little Rio Grande surprise for us next year.

Now I would also LOVE to see a C-16 in 1:22.5 or 1:20.3 and hope they do produce that one also. I also hope that they will give us a 1:20.3 version of the Plymouth siderod critter they are doing in On30.

[Anonymous]

The Aristocraft Mallet is going to be 2-8-8-2. But anyway, a 1:20.3 affordable K-27 is an untapped goldmine for the first company to make one. The sheer popularity of the locomotive is an underestimated selling point. I think Bachmanns excuse of not enough customers with wide radius curves is under researched. At least in outdoor railroading, most modelers have an 8-10ft minimum, while those who don't are makeing plans to replace their smaller curves to accomodate larger locos and elminate derailings and other problems.

The market is ripe, somebody should make one, if bachmann doesn't, an aristocraft would be nice.

[Anonymous]

The Aristocraft Mallet is going to be 2-8-8-2. But anyway, a 1:20.3 affordable K-27 is an untapped goldmine for the first company to make one. The sheer popularity of the locomotive is an underestimated selling point. I think Bachmanns excuse of not enough customers with wide radius curves is under researched. At least in outdoor railroading, most modelers have an 8-10ft minimum, while those who don't are makeing plans to replace their smaller curves to accomodate larger locos and elminate derailings and other problems.

The market is ripe, somebody should make one, if bachmann doesn't, an aristocraft would be nice.

[vsmith]

I kinda hope not. Aristo Craft would most likely make it 1:29 ( a standard guage k-27?)to match everything else they make. They havent done any narrow gauge yet. The old standard guage C-16 they made was 1:29 and looked like an amusment park loco when coupled to 1:22.5 LGB or Bachmann Passenger cars. Supposedly Aristo is re-tooling the C-16 or a future release. No idea what it will look like, hope they bump up the scale to at least 1:22.5, and your right, the new mallet is a 2-8-8-2. I guess they are making the most out of their 8-coupled mikado chassis, hence the new mallet and the new C-16.

[vsmith]

I kinda hope not. Aristo Craft would most likely make it 1:29 ( a standard guage k-27?)to match everything else they make. They havent done any narrow gauge yet. The old standard guage C-16 they made was 1:29 and looked like an amusment park loco when coupled to 1:22.5 LGB or Bachmann Passenger cars. Supposedly Aristo is re-tooling the C-16 or a future release. No idea what it will look like, hope they bump up the scale to at least 1:22.5, and your right, the new mallet is a 2-8-8-2. I guess they are making the most out of their 8-coupled mikado chassis, hence the new mallet and the new C-16.

[Anonymous]

Well, one more thought: Bachmann's sold what, 5,000 shays and getting close to 5,000 climaxes i think i read. So the market is obviously out there for plastic, cheap, reliable narowgauge engines, so wouldn't a K27 be a logical next step for them?

[Anonymous]

Well, one more thought: Bachmann's sold what, 5,000 shays and getting close to 5,000 climaxes i think i read. So the market is obviously out there for plastic, cheap, reliable narowgauge engines, so wouldn't a K27 be a logical next step for them?

[Anonymous]

A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should.

Smokebox

[Anonymous]

A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should.

Smokebox

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1

A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should.

Smokebox

Yes they have been done but,
1. the LGB was a limited release, is no longer avalible and I've never seen one for sale.

2. the Accucraft is $3000 freaking dollars and only a few hundred are ever made.

Just because they've been done doesnt mean we all have one.

For these two, almost no one can afford them. I dont have a Trust fund to dive into for something like this so an affordable version in plastic is all we can hope for. If this is going to become a hobby only for the rich (if you have to ask the price, your in the wrong hobby) then I'll go back to HO or N.

I seriously dont think the mfr's will cater to an ever smaller and richer buyer base, they will price themselfes out of the market. Thats why we want a plastic K-27,K-37, C-16, etc.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1

A K class has already been done by LGB and a few of them by Accucraft. Yes, they're not $400.00 discount locomotives, but they have been done. I'd rather see something like an EBT Mike that hasn't been done and looks like a steam locomotive should.

Smokebox

Yes they have been done but,
1. the LGB was a limited release, is no longer avalible and I've never seen one for sale.

2. the Accucraft is $3000 freaking dollars and only a few hundred are ever made.

Just because they've been done doesnt mean we all have one.

For these two, almost no one can afford them. I dont have a Trust fund to dive into for something like this so an affordable version in plastic is all we can hope for. If this is going to become a hobby only for the rich (if you have to ask the price, your in the wrong hobby) then I'll go back to HO or N.

I seriously dont think the mfr's will cater to an ever smaller and richer buyer base, they will price themselfes out of the market. Thats why we want a plastic K-27,K-37, C-16, etc.

[Anonymous]

I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. To date the only scale RTR rolling stock that would go with a "K" class is $100.00 a car, and you would need a string of them to make up a train!

IMO, a C16/19 would make alot more sense as there were many of the same style locomotive operating on NG lines around the US. These could also be offered in many different "eras" of detailing. The "K" class locomotives are almost all different and had a limited operating area.

Thankfully Bachmann understands that narrow gauge doesn't have to mean "Colorado"!

Smokebox

[Anonymous]

I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve. To date the only scale RTR rolling stock that would go with a "K" class is $100.00 a car, and you would need a string of them to make up a train!

IMO, a C16/19 would make alot more sense as there were many of the same style locomotive operating on NG lines around the US. These could also be offered in many different "eras" of detailing. The "K" class locomotives are almost all different and had a limited operating area.

Thankfully Bachmann understands that narrow gauge doesn't have to mean "Colorado"!

Smokebox

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1

I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve.
Smokebox

I guess you haven't gotten a good look at Bachmanns 2-8-0 Consolidation or their
4-4-0 American or the 2-6-0 Mogul, all are what I would call "finescale" and all are around +/- $300 range which I see is a very reasonable price.

Just like in every other scale, I dont expect it to be cheap but at the same time I dont want someone telling me that just because I cant afford an engine thats costs $1000 then I have no business being in this hobby, thats wrong-headed and if thats the case, then G scale will never be more than just another "niche" hobby for the wealthy.

Dont forget its also about OPENING NEW MARKETS and getting people interested in the hobby. If people are crying for more items like a K-27 that says there is a demand not being met, and whoever fills that demand will make a killing. For myself personally, I would rather see locomotive of the industrial sugur cane plantation variety as that is what I run, now I aint holding my breath wiating for a $100 Accucraft, I now how the market place works. But there is a definite demand for better quality and a more reasonable price. All it takes is one manufacturer produces a product that sends shockwaves thru the hobby, and the rest have to scramble to catch up.

Example
Look whats starting to happen with Bachmanns On30 line, they are now going to produce a 30"gauge C-16, why? because the scale is very popular with people who have always wanted to try narrow gauge but couldnt afford $30 switches that had to be handlaid or $500 brass locomotives and a C-16 is what the screaming masses want, so Bachmann is going to produce it. A C-16 in 30"gauge is not accurate? who cares? People want it and I cant wait to see what it looks like. Now other makers are starting to produce engines, including a K-27! in On30, because this is a new hot market.

Another good example is Bachmanns Spectrum line which has gotten better and less expensive with each new release, the Shay was over $800 new at first run, the new Hiesler will be around $300 at the Discount dealers, the Mining Mogul which is also "finescale" is only about $100, and the new dockside porter will be less than $100 (I am holding my breath for that one). So Yes it is possible to produce "finescale" quality at $100 to $300. All it takes is a manufacturer thats willing to step up to the plate and swing.

How much real difference is there manufacturing the 2-8-0 vs a K-27 when literally dozens of sites on-line tell you how easy it is to produce a close copy of it? Close enough that Bachmann could if it choses with a small reasonable amount of retooling to produce a K-27 that would be a huge hit. How popular has the Consolidation been. Alot of people had never even seen one before the model was produced. Imagine with the instant recognition that a K-27 would command.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smokebox1

I think it's unrealistic to expect fine scale 1:20.3 models produced of every wanted prototype and offer them all at discount prices. To model finescale 1:20.3 and expect it all to be inexspensive is almost nieve.
Smokebox

I guess you haven't gotten a good look at Bachmanns 2-8-0 Consolidation or their
4-4-0 American or the 2-6-0 Mogul, all are what I would call "finescale" and all are around +/- $300 range which I see is a very reasonable price.

Just like in every other scale, I dont expect it to be cheap but at the same time I dont want someone telling me that just because I cant afford an engine thats costs $1000 then I have no business being in this hobby, thats wrong-headed and if thats the case, then G scale will never be more than just another "niche" hobby for the wealthy.

Dont forget its also about OPENING NEW MARKETS and getting people interested in the hobby. If people are crying for more items like a K-27 that says there is a demand not being met, and whoever fills that demand will make a killing. For myself personally, I would rather see locomotive of the industrial sugur cane plantation variety as that is what I run, now I aint holding my breath wiating for a $100 Accucraft, I now how the market place works. But there is a definite demand for better quality and a more reasonable price. All it takes is one manufacturer produces a product that sends shockwaves thru the hobby, and the rest have to scramble to catch up.

Example
Look whats starting to happen with Bachmanns On30 line, they are now going to produce a 30"gauge C-16, why? because the scale is very popular with people who have always wanted to try narrow gauge but couldnt afford $30 switches that had to be handlaid or $500 brass locomotives and a C-16 is what the screaming masses want, so Bachmann is going to produce it. A C-16 in 30"gauge is not accurate? who cares? People want it and I cant wait to see what it looks like. Now other makers are starting to produce engines, including a K-27! in On30, because this is a new hot market.

Another good example is Bachmanns Spectrum line which has gotten better and less expensive with each new release, the Shay was over $800 new at first run, the new Hiesler will be around $300 at the Discount dealers, the Mining Mogul which is also "finescale" is only about $100, and the new dockside porter will be less than $100 (I am holding my breath for that one). So Yes it is possible to produce "finescale" quality at $100 to $300. All it takes is a manufacturer thats willing to step up to the plate and swing.

How much real difference is there manufacturing the 2-8-0 vs a K-27 when literally dozens of sites on-line tell you how easy it is to produce a close copy of it? Close enough that Bachmann could if it choses with a small reasonable amount of retooling to produce a K-27 that would be a huge hit. How popular has the Consolidation been. Alot of people had never even seen one before the model was produced. Imagine with the instant recognition that a K-27 would command.

[Anonymous]

Thats a great idea.

I have always wanted a K-27 but they have always been to expensive.



I would like to fix one thing. LGB produced a K-28 not a K-27

Bachmann is the cheapest and that would be the best

Nick

[Anonymous]

Thats a great idea.

I have always wanted a K-27 but they have always been to expensive.



I would like to fix one thing. LGB produced a K-28 not a K-27

Bachmann is the cheapest and that would be the best

Nick

[Curmudgeon]

16,000 Shays ordered, 10,000 produced, took them 6 years for the dealers to get rid of them all (hence the 38T re-issue this year).
This sqwauk entered life years ago on LySOL, a plastic K-27 for $300.
I have a K-27 in 1:22.5, nice, fits with about everything.
Before you ask for one in1:20, remember to be careful what you ask for.
They don't fit the funniest things...like the cab handrails hit the rocks in the Gorge, the valve bodies won't fit through the turntables, the overhang knocks cars off in the terminal.
We've been leaning on them for a long time, not only for a K but for 1:20 rolling stock.
Best bet is to see what Colorado Prototypes Bachmann has used in the past.....might give you some insight.
Yes, there has been "paint", but look to see what the prototype was.

There is a lot of difference.
Shipping.
The 2-8-0 comes packed in a row, they would have to make a box where they are side-by-side (like Accu and Berlyn) and I don't think they're ready.
Tooling costs for the bigger stuff adds a lot....I was told how much more the tooling costs to go to a 1:20 boxcar over a 1:22.5......and I don't care what you have in your shop, that's what Kader has, and they pay the bills.
My Shay, first run, first shipment, out of TW, was $425.
About all the big Spectrums have been $799.99 list.
They all sort out shortly to $300-$400, drop off to like $279 when the discounters have to pay the rent.
I deal with the front office too often, the lower echelons weekly.
SOMEBODY is going to have to guarantee to Kader a minimum amount of units.

Give you an idea:
The new Shay.
Trucks were going to be made available separately, like this summer.
Requires pre-orders.


Do you know how many have been pre-ordered?
Why would Kader be interested in making a K-27 when they can't get folks to pre-order trucks?

Unless they see a big market, it isn't going to happen.
Size, cost, and interest.

I know a local outfit was going to build a K-27 conversion kit for a 2-8-0 or a complete loco.....not enough interest.
To keep the cost down, it has to be a larger company.

TOC

[Curmudgeon]

16,000 Shays ordered, 10,000 produced, took them 6 years for the dealers to get rid of them all (hence the 38T re-issue this year).
This sqwauk entered life years ago on LySOL, a plastic K-27 for $300.
I have a K-27 in 1:22.5, nice, fits with about everything.
Before you ask for one in1:20, remember to be careful what you ask for.
They don't fit the funniest things...like the cab handrails hit the rocks in the Gorge, the valve bodies won't fit through the turntables, the overhang knocks cars off in the terminal.
We've been leaning on them for a long time, not only for a K but for 1:20 rolling stock.
Best bet is to see what Colorado Prototypes Bachmann has used in the past.....might give you some insight.
Yes, there has been "paint", but look to see what the prototype was.

There is a lot of difference.
Shipping.
The 2-8-0 comes packed in a row, they would have to make a box where they are side-by-side (like Accu and Berlyn) and I don't think they're ready.
Tooling costs for the bigger stuff adds a lot....I was told how much more the tooling costs to go to a 1:20 boxcar over a 1:22.5......and I don't care what you have in your shop, that's what Kader has, and they pay the bills.
My Shay, first run, first shipment, out of TW, was $425.
About all the big Spectrums have been $799.99 list.
They all sort out shortly to $300-$400, drop off to like $279 when the discounters have to pay the rent.
I deal with the front office too often, the lower echelons weekly.
SOMEBODY is going to have to guarantee to Kader a minimum amount of units.

Give you an idea:
The new Shay.
Trucks were going to be made available separately, like this summer.
Requires pre-orders.


Do you know how many have been pre-ordered?
Why would Kader be interested in making a K-27 when they can't get folks to pre-order trucks?

Unless they see a big market, it isn't going to happen.
Size, cost, and interest.

I know a local outfit was going to build a K-27 conversion kit for a 2-8-0 or a complete loco.....not enough interest.
To keep the cost down, it has to be a larger company.

TOC

[Anonymous]

Hi all
K27 no thanks too big
vsmith shouldn't the small locomotives you mention have a toy like caracter to them
the prototypes did.
Well at least I think they have a certain toy like charm about then which is what makes them such a marketable product as a model.
This asside there is a shortage of reasonable quality product at reasonable prices.
But I am a little concerned that the trend for larger locomotives is going to leave the small end of the market with not a lot in the way of decent choices as well
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hi all
K27 no thanks too big
vsmith shouldn't the small locomotives you mention have a toy like caracter to them
the prototypes did.
Well at least I think they have a certain toy like charm about then which is what makes them such a marketable product as a model.
This asside there is a shortage of reasonable quality product at reasonable prices.
But I am a little concerned that the trend for larger locomotives is going to leave the small end of the market with not a lot in the way of decent choices as well
regards John