garden RR and real estate values

[tangerine-jack]

I just got a "friendly" visit from the Real Estate Assessor and much to my surprize[:0], my garden RR was valued as a "home improvement" to the tune of $17,500. Now I know my garden is very pretty, but 17.5G? "That's nuts" [:(]says I, "don't care" [:(!]says he.

Has anybody else out there dealt with this? Is there any way to convince city hall that it's only a garden, and please don't tax me for it? Does anybody want me to come by your home for 17.5G and build you a small RR?

[oX)]

[Anonymous]

JACK
Can't you appeal , where did he get his figures for the assessment , ??? how did he come up with 17.5G's .THATS A BIG CHUNK of tax increase. I know i would appeal the thing . it's a hobby ,when you move you take it with you . this guy is crazzy. ben

[tangerine-jack]

I know, it's quite a chunk of change. Believe me, nobody was more surprized than me! I always thought I did adequate work, but good grief, that figure puts me into the "artist" category. I might try to appeal with the "toy train" angle, but that may undo the work everybody has done for the last 20 years to legitimize the hobby. I think he was assessing the actual landscaping, but the eyes were on the train.

I do plan on the appeal, that could take some time, but I have plenty of fight in me. Normaly a property value increase is a good thing, but I have no plans now or in the knowable future to sell the place, so an increase is counterproductive as far as the tax is concerned. I'm just wondering how many others in this hobby have experienced this sort of thing. In indoor scales, nobody knows or cares what you have, so it is not an issue. I posted some photos a few weeks ago, and you can reference them (minus some plant life) for an idea of what we are talking about. True, I like to put myself on a pedistal and give myself an artificialy inflated feeling of self-worth, but photos don't lie, and that ain't no way 17.5G worth of RR.

Granted, an outdoor RR is an improvement to any home........................

[oX)]

[Anonymous]

TJ, first things first, Ask him what he's been smoking and what is his comparison is to come up with that figure. I refinaced a couple of years ago and the difference is apprasels were $ 20,000.00! I know this is slightly different then realestate tax apprasel but REALLY! I built my 30' x 40' garage out back and it didn't increase the value of my property according the bank by much. Go with the toy train hobby angle , nobody in this hobby would think any less of you by doing so!

[grandpopswalt]

TJ,

The appraisal can only be made on the landscaping not directly associated with the RR. The trains, track, structures, RR bridges, and any plantings associated with the RR have to be considered temporary. You can argue, and you’d probably be right, that a new homeowner would almost certainly remove the RR from the back yard. As a matter of fact you could probably make a case that the RR would actually decrease the value of the property because the new owner would incur some cost removing the RR and would consider that fact when making an offer.

I‘ve always said one should pick his fights carefully, well this one’s certainly worth going to the mat over.

Walt

[Curmudgeon]

Yup, "temporary". Like one of them little Garden sheds with no foundation.
If it can be lifted up and moved, it ain't an "improvement" for taxation purposes.
Why did you let him on the property?
I tell them to stand on the street, just past the property line.
TOC

[markperr]

Fifteen years ago here in Michigan we had many a town with overzealous tax assessors driving people right from their homes by over-valuating their property to where the people couldn't pay their taxes. We passed a referendum locking property taxes to the rate of inflation or 3%, whichever is LESS!!! Since then my property value has increased over fifty percent but my tax assessment only 11%. Thankfully, I will never have to deal with local politicians or beaurocrats regarding my property taxes ever again.

Mark

[Anonymous]

I don't understand.What do these tax assessors do?
Troy

[grandpopswalt]

Troy,

Just about every local jurisdiction (city, town, township, in some cases county) derive a substantial portion of their operating budgets from taxes levied on property owners, both private and commercial. The amount of tax levied is based on the fair-market-value of the property. So, periodically all properties are reappraised so that a new, and usually higher, tax rate can be applied. The folks that do these evaluations are called “tax assessors”, and usually other names which can’t be discussed in mixed company.

Walt

[TurboOne]

TJ, here in CA once you are in, the taxes don't increase. Been here 14 years so still paying 11 years ago taxes. Of course dumb voters added so much in school tax, and city sales tax increases, and our gas has so much tax that it makes up for most of the savings. But the way houses are increasing in value, no one could afford taxes if they keep going up.

Do these assessors just show up, or do they schedule a time frame that they come out ?

Good Luck

Tim

[Anonymous]

I don't want my tax to go up. But then again I kind of like the idea that a garden rail will increase property value. It makes my point to my wife more valid. She's always more willing to spend some money if she beleives the money will increase house value.

[Tom The Brat]

The guy must have thought those were gold rails[8]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SKMoss

I don't want my tax to go up. But then again I kind of like the idea that a garden rail will increase property value. It makes my point to my wife more valid. She's always more willing to spend some money if she beleives the money will increase house value.

Amenity maybe? Improvment? in the eye of the new owner.

[tangerine-jack]

hey TurboOne! That must be one of the nice things about living in CA. Here in the "commie wealth" of VA, they tax you on personal property like your car, boat, jet ski, etc, and the rate of taxation seems to be arbitrary. Often the assessors just increase an entire zip code by a certain percentage, regardless of the quality of housing located within. In my case, he was making a drive through, must have seen my arbored entrance and took a closer look. Not much I can do about that, it's perfectly legal here for the assessor to "just show up".

Naturaly, this is all done in the name of taxation for the "public good" of course. That way those of us who worked hard our whole lives and made something of ourselves by the sweat of our brows, can support those who believe they have a right to the good life by not having to work or by doing anything at all.

But I'm getting off the train topic here. In any case, it was my garden RR that upped the assessed value, nothing else. If my rails were gold, I'd have to pull them up to pay the tax on the ties! I did contact the city today and they are looking into getting me an itemized assessment, should hear back from them when I'm 92.

It's all good anyway, life was getting a little dull. A good battle with city hall ought to spice things up a bit. You know, I've been around a little bit myself so I have an ace or two up my sleeve they don't know about. Bring it on!

[oX)]

[TurboOne]

TJ that is the only tax benefit in CA. Weather is great also. Oops. [8D][8D]

So to keep the topic on trains ([:D]) on your layout are you going to include an assessor and a city hall so you can make a parade of protestors outside of it? That would qualify as prototypical right ? And then we could make little people versions of ourselves with protest signs and you could put us on your layout. That would be truly a good time.

By the way TJ how much do pirates charge for corn ?

Why a buccaneer of course.

Take care

Tim

[Anonymous]

Here in the UK our property tax is called council tax and increases well above inflation every year. Our up and coming problem is that the current tax is based on property values assessed the best part of twenty years ago. They are reassessing in the next couple of years and my house has gone from about £30000ish at the first assessment to £140000 now. I suspect the only way ahead is to start playing up on the knackered back and knees and go for disability, I'll be on the receiving end for a change then and not have to pay the tax!
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[red p]

QUOTE: Originally posted by markperr

Fifteen years ago here in Michigan we had many a town with overzealous tax assessors driving people right from their homes by over-valuating their property to where the people couldn't pay their taxes. We passed a referendum locking property taxes to the rate of inflation or 3%, whichever is LESS!!! Since then my property value has increased over fifty percent but my tax assessment only 11%. Thankfully, I will never have to deal with local politicians or beaurocrats regarding my property taxes ever again.

Mark

Watch it Mark,Politictions can always go back and change a law.I learned a long time ago never say never

[markperr]

Seems to fly in the face of conversations held here and on other forums in the past about real estate agents advising sellers with GR's to let potential buyers know that the GR can be removed if they don't want it and I don't know how many anecdotals i've read about where sellers were told to pull it up because it has absolutely no resale value because very few people would want one. (unlike air conditioning and heat!) Maybe your best bet would be to find a real estate agent or two and ask them their opinion. Get it on paper and take it to the board of appeals.

Either way, good luck with it and keep us informed.
Mark

[bman36]

Jack,
Tax people here are major weird too. After I built my 30'x30' garage the building inspector came to see it. Glanced at the building and then focused on my hotrod. The remainder of the conversation was about the car. What a joke. Finally I asked "is everything here OK?" He glances around again and says "yeah sure...fine". Thankyou and please stamp this for me OK...now leave please. Tax laws sure vary. Here it is only considered an improvement if it has concrete under it. My Garden RR is in no way subject to increase. No permit required. I can also build a deck the size of my yard but only need a permit if it is attached to the house! How's that for dumb! Just do your homework and perhaps some sort of statement from a friend in realestate sales. The truth is the garden RR could make the house harder to sell. All the best! Have fun with this if you can. Later eh...Brian. [:D][tup]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

I just got a "friendly" visit from the Real Estate Assessor and much to my surprize[:0], my garden RR was valued as a "home improvement" to the tune of $17,500. Now I know my garden is very pretty, but 17.5G? "That's nuts" [:(]says I, "don't care" [:(!]says he.

Has anybody else out there dealt with this? Is there any way to convince city hall that it's only a garden, and please don't tax me for it? Does anybody want me to come by your home for 17.5G and build you a small RR?

[oX)]

I've got it!! Plant a hefty garden and then apply for a farm subsidy, then defer the cost by applying to the ICC as a shortline railroad. Then abandon the line, then reopen it and see if you state offers some incentive for railroad reclamiation.[:p]

[Anonymous]

Capt, YOUR CRAZY![(-D]

[tangerine-jack]

Crazy like a fox! That may just work, if the idiot is dumb enough to think my little RR is worth 17.5G, then maybe he'll buy off on all that junk Cpt Carrales just said.

TurboOne, I like the idea of little protestors, maybe I could have a miniature "assessor" walking the plank of the pirate ship, ARR AAR mateys!!!!

Boy oh boy, I'm sure glad he didn't poke his head in the garage and see what I've got tucked away in there![;)]

[oX)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack


Boy oh boy, I'm sure glad he didn't poke his head in the garage and see what I've got tucked away in there![;)]

[oX)]

And!!! What's tucked away???????

[Anonymous]

some buildings, more trains, and alot of track,and ,--and--????????and a big lay out in the garage. ben

[Anonymous]

Ben, my guess is it has 4 tires and some horses under the hood!

[tangerine-jack]

Right on both of you! Upstairs is my Lionel layout (still under construction), nothing fancy, but fun! And yes, about 400 Mopar horses live in the downstairs next to my very nice antique British bike.

The car and bike do nothing for the property value, but the layout would probably raise the "value" by, oh say, 40G. I figure some 2nd hand Lionel trains running on used track in a folded dog-bone ups my property value at least that much, right?[}:)] I mean after all, you guys would pay me that much, wouldn't you??? Hello..............where did every one go????[:P]


[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi tangerine-jack
This sounds a bit odd as a garden railway is a temporary structure that will move with you after you win those lotto millions and buy that mansion you allways wanted[:D]
That being the case you may be able to argue a reduction in value however having a nice presentable garden does add value to your property
and can add quite a lot to the value of a property.
Remember when you argue your case it is the "Train Set" and there is no way it is getting left behind if you sell the property your chidren would never forgive you[}:)]
regards John

[Anonymous]

M ove
O ver
P ontiac
A pproching
R apidly

Just joshing, I love all the the muscle cars!

What the are the 400 ponies in?

[tangerine-jack]

I never knew until now what a "Pontiac" was, the hood emblems on those cars get so small so quickly in my rear view mirror I don't have time to read them. Same thing with that blue oval thing, one of these days I'll see what kind of car that was I just dusted.
The ponies are happily smoking all comers in 1950 Plymouth P20 clothing. Yes, I said P L Y M O U T H, you've probably never seen one since the writing is in chrome on the hood, there is nothing on the back of the car, which is the only view you would see from looking through the windshield of the average slug Mustwang or Craparo.

Yes, I know that had nothing to do with the garden or the train, but I just couldn't resist the jab!

You must be a prophet, John! I was in fact looking at another property today, and I am very interested in a purchase. My track, structures and every thing not anchored in concrete would be coming with me in the event I move in the next few months. The new place has a smaller lot and no pool[:(], but it's a 3 story, 5 bed, 3 bath Painted Lady listed on the National Historical Registry. An all new RR behind that thing would be just this side of awesome! Victorian garden with steam RR, oh man! Sorry, won't tell you where or how much for the moment[;)]


[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi Tangarine-jack
You just don't want us to drool over those vicorian era steam trains you are going to have to build[:D][sigh]
So they are in keeping with the house.
Of course it has nothing to do with the fact you might enjoy building them[(-D]
regards John