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Kittatinny Mt RR (new addition)

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:25 AM
Yesterday I bought some pea gravel, contact cement, and a few more dwarf alberta's.  Was going to do some work in the 70 degree weather but got called out to a high angle rescue.  There went any plans on working on my layout.  Today was suppose to be nice but it is misting out and temp 45 degrees.  I wanted to start glueing down some rock on my creek.  Once I get that dome it is time to get some balast and start laying track down.  Cant wait to get the trains running.
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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Monday, April 14, 2008 9:46 AM

After a few days of working on my stream I have it complete.  Just have to fill it up and do a few test runs.  It took me a while to finf the rock stone for the stream bed.  Here are some pictures.

Picture of the entire stream.  To the right of the stream I burried a large pvs pipe in the ground.  It goes from the bottom pond to the uper spring.  I did this so If I ever have to replace the hose I dont have to dig up the ground or track.  I can also use it for wireing etc....

Once I get plants along the edges it will look a lot better.  It is a bit barren yet.  Its still too early to plant anything up this way

This is the bottom pond, where the pump will be located.  Have to fill it with rock and add some pond plants.

This is the spring.  I burried the hose under the rock/gravel.  I just hope it gets a bubble effect

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Posted by altterrain on Monday, April 14, 2008 10:26 AM

Lookin' good, Shawn.

I resized one of your pics so you can see the whole thing. Maybe you could set your camera to only 640 pixels wide?

-Brian 

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Monday, April 14, 2008 11:02 AM
Thank brian, I just set my camera to the 640.  That should do the trick.  Thanks again
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Posted by ttrigg on Monday, April 14, 2008 9:54 PM
Looks like you are close to adding water.  Total project looking good.  My tunnel construction technique was much like yours except I put the bolcks on a single "footer slab".  Keep it up and at this pace you should have a very nice looking little empire by the time summer gets here.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 14, 2008 10:09 PM

Cann't wait to see it running!!!! Flow that water Son!

Ole Toad

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:34 AM
Going to add some water and see how it looks today. Just have to wait for the temps to get above freezing.  Mornings still below freezing but days are getting nicer.  Next step is to lay track and balast.  Cant wait to get the trains running.
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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:20 PM
I got the water running and so far so good.  Only had to make a few adjustments where I had some spill along the edges.  That was easily solved by building up the sides under the liner.  If that does not do the trick then I just have to add a smaller pump.  I got a pretty strong one now.  That way I get a good fast current.  Now I just have to wait for the water to clear up.  Will post some pictures tomorrow.
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Posted by ttrigg on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:39 PM

 SNOWSHOE wrote:
I got the water running and so far so good.  Only had to make a few adjustments where I had some spill along the edges.  That was easily solved by building up the sides under the liner.  If that does not do the trick then I just have to add a smaller pump.  I got a pretty strong one now.  That way I get a good fast current.  Now I just have to wait for the water to clear up.  Will post some pictures tomorrow.

NO!  You will be better off, in the long run, to keep the "over power" pump and putting in a valve to control the flow.  Put the valve in the line from the pump to the waterfall.  Do not put the valve between the pump and the "lake/resovior", that will cause the pump to burn out.  They don't mind pumping harder but will burn out quicker if they cannot suck fast enough.  There will be the odd occasion, especially when cleaning that you will want the water to run faster than normal.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:17 AM

I had my stream running all day yesterday.  When I got home from work last night I found the bottom pond had very little water in it.  It was leaking somewhere.  This moring I refilled the pond and ran the stream.  Found my problem.  The flow I had was to strong and the water was spilling over the sides of the upper spring.  I took a garden hose (I had a large fish pond hose but it seemed to crack pretty easy) and cut it to length.  I turned the punp and got a perfect flow with no spilling.  The stream runs a little slower then I wanted but overall it is not bad.  I also put the hose end above water level and created a cascade.  looks much better.  When I had the hose under water the water would run back down to the lower pond (when I turned the punp off)  ANyway here are some pictures, once the water cleares up i will worl on hiding the hose better etc...  Next step is start playing with the track.

Upper spring with small cascade.I have to work on the spillway a little more.

Lower pond.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:57 AM
 ttrigg wrote:

 SNOWSHOE wrote:
I got the water running and so far so good.  Only had to make a few adjustments where I had some spill along the edges.  That was easily solved by building up the sides under the liner.  If that does not do the trick then I just have to add a smaller pump.  I got a pretty strong one now.  That way I get a good fast current.  Now I just have to wait for the water to clear up.  Will post some pictures tomorrow.

NO!  You will be better off, in the long run, to keep the "over power" pump and putting in a valve to control the flow.  Put the valve in the line from the pump to the waterfall.  Do not put the valve between the pump and the "lake/resovior", that will cause the pump to burn out.  They don't mind pumping harder but will burn out quicker if they cannot suck fast enough.  There will be the odd occasion, especially when cleaning that you will want the water to run faster than normal.


Yes, show us a picture of one triggy Big Smile [:D]

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Posted by EMPIRE II LINE on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:18 AM
 SNOWSHOE wrote:

 ANyway here are some pictures, once the water cleares up i will worl on hiding the hose better etc...  Next step is start playing with the track.

 

Lower pond.

 

Hey Shoe,

That's starting to look like some'thin now, Kinda like the ol'e stream in Toads back yard there in  TEXAS......You need to add a filtration system, can't see the FISH !!!!! I use a 24 inch sand filter myself.....

 

 

You can see it in the back-ground there in this shot, it's the big BLUE thing.....

That's my neighbor, little 4-year old, Harley. She's a LOVING those Dash-9's, pulling that 44 car drag, Especially the Whistle Button....  

Byron C. 

He Wore Arrow Shirts Too
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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:12 PM
Thanks, I went out to check on my stream to see if it is leaking.  Seems like it lost a little water not much in a few hours though.  Cant find any leaks but i did notice that there is condensation creeping up the sides of the bank and into the soil. (The soil is wet along the creek sides) The liner is  high enough above the water line in the stream. It is not running over the liner.  Im thinking with the rocks the water is somehow being drawn up the liner through condensation. I know I get a little splash from the spring/cascade.  This could be another facter.   Is there a trick in stopping this or is it just a matter of letting everything get wet and eventually it will stop. Even if I only have to fill it up every few days it is not bad.  When i get home from work tonight I will see how much more I lost.   
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Posted by altterrain on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:14 PM

Looks good. I can see the robin's flocking to the area with all the worms from digging and their new bird bath. A few words of advice on the stream

-its probably a good idea to drain it out once or twice to get rid of most of the dirt. The more organic matter in your water the more of an algae problem you will have. A shop vac will make the job easier or just use the pond pump to pump the water out.

-for algae control you can go a couple of routes  -add a bit "Algafix" (found in any place that has aquariums) now and then  -pick up one water hyacinth plant (you only need one) and put it in your lower pond. You can usually find it at any garden center that has pond supplies. It will grow rapidly and you can pull out the extra if it gets too big.  -last resort, add a bit of chorox once every two weeks (Do not use with plants!)

-Brian 

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Posted by EMPIRE II LINE on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:26 PM

 SNOWSHOE wrote:
Thanks, I went out to check on my stream to see if it is leaking.  Seems like it lost a little water not much in a few hours though.  Cant find any leaks but i did notice that there is condensation creeping up the sides of the bank and into the soil. (The soil is wet along the creek sides) The liner is  high enough above the water line in the stream. It is not running over the liner.  Im thinking with the rocks the water is somehow being drawn up the liner through condensation. I know I get a little splash from the spring/cascade.  This could be another facter.   Is there a trick in stopping this or is it just a matter of letting everything get wet and eventually it will stop. Even if I only have to fill it up every few days it is not bad.  When i get home from work tonight I will see how much more I lost.   

 

Say Shoe,

Yeah you got a real dilemma here, sounds to me like liner leaks, why do I say that ??

My sump pond, that my pump draws from, is about 4 to 4.5 foot deep, and holds about 300 gallons of water, it drops down only about a half an inch in the dry-season here per week.

Usually we get enough rain to keep it full or even over-flowing through the automatic over-flow system I designed into my water features.

You should'a, could'a, used the Firestone liner cement, to seal your seams together, than you would'nt have to remove all of your rocks again and start over-----sounds like that is what you are going to need to do.

Have Fun......

Byron C.    

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:34 PM
 EMPIRE II LINE wrote:
 SNOWSHOE wrote:

 ANyway here are some pictures, once the water cleares up i will worl on hiding the hose better etc...  Next step is start playing with the track.

 

Lower pond.

 

Hey Shoe,

That's starting to look like some'thin now, Kinda like the ol'e stream in Toads back yard there in  TEXAS......You need to add a filtration system, can't see the FISH !!!!! I use a 24 inch sand filter myself.....

Byron C. 

HEY! Why bother the Ole Toad's Pad?

Toad

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:44 PM
 EMPIRE II LINE wrote:

 SNOWSHOE wrote:
 

 

Say Shoe,

Yeah you got a real dilemma here, sounds to me like liner leaks, why do I say that ??

My sump pond, that my pump draws from, is about 4 to 4.5 foot deep, and holds about 300 gallons of water, it drops down only about a half an inch in the dry-season here per week.

Usually we get enough rain to keep it full or even over-flowing through the automatic over-flow system I designed into my water features.

You should'a, could'a, used the Firestone liner cement, to seal your seams together, than you would'nt have to remove all of your rocks again and start over-----sounds like that is what you are going to need to do.

Have Fun......

Byron C.    

 

I only have one spot where the liner overlaps.  I doubt it is from that.  Where they overlap it is the steeper section of the creek and I did bond it together with silicon.  I think it is from the water someone creeping up the sides.  It seems the rocks and dirt are absorbing the water.  It is like this the entire length of the creek.  I think if I give it a few days the are will be saturated enough and the water should stop creeping up the sides.  I hope.    

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Posted by altterrain on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:47 PM

Could be a liner leak or capillary action or both. I did a pond/waterfall a few year back and it kept losing water behind the water fall. Could not find a leak anywhere. Filled the stone cracks in the water fall with urethane foam - problem fixed!

If you suspect a leak you can pound in rebar around the suspect areas (like testing a cake to see if its done baking Laugh [(-D] ) and see if it comes out wet.  I had a leak in my stream and thats when I made the switch to silicone. No leaks since.

-Brian 

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Posted by ttrigg on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:14 PM

 ToadFrog WhiteLightn wrote:

Yes, show us a picture of one triggy Big Smile [:D]

 

OK Toady: Here are a few pics as per your request.

 

A few facts about my pond: Total water volume ~2,400 gallons. Rubber pond liner with backing fiber pad to prevent root damage to the liner. Rock sidewalls of the pond are held in place with cement mortar. The rocks in the falls are held in place with cement as well. Now to lay to rest all this discussion about cement "poisoning" the fish. Yes there are a lot of salts and lye in cement. After construction fill the pond with water adding a gallon of bleach for every 150~200 gallons of water. Run this through the system for a week. Drain and fill, repeating this treatment for the next two weeks. Plumb the system so that the rinse water does not enter through the filters. (Hence the plumbers tree to be seen later.) After three rinses, get a water testing kit from your pond store (or take a sample to your local Cooperative Extension Office) to test for water quality. First fish should be limited to "mosquito fish" they are more sensitive to water quality that other most other fish. If they survive for two weeks then the pond is ready for Koi or what ever kind of fish you want.

Starting from the top:

The water falls 39 inches down the falls into the "lake".

The water flows down this "river" and into the "skimmer"

Inside the skimmer is the first filter.

There is a basket to catch leaves and other large floating debris. There are filter medium on both sides. Then there are three pipes in the "reservoir" area. 3 inch pipe leading out of the skimmer where the pump sucks the water out. There is a 1.5-inch "overflow" pipe leading out to drain the pond should a large rainstorm try to overfill the pond. There is a 0.75-inch feeder pipe so I can add water as needed without having to drag a garden hose to the pond.

The pump and main filter:

I know it looks like a plumbing nightmare but IT WORKS, and I know how to work it. The pump is rated at 4,000 gallons per hour at 48-inch lift. My pond filter is larger than most of the filters some of my neighbors have on their hot tubs.

The valves:

Here is the "valve farm". (The pond is to the left and the pump and main filter is to the right.)

The two blue valves (ground level) control whether I want to draw water from the skimmer or from the drain on the bottom of the pond. (Think of the drain in the bottom of your shower but much larger and plastic,)

The two red valves in the "stand pipe" control the water flow through the falls. On the right hand side of the "stand pipe" is a back flow preventer. Stops water from flowing down from the waterfall reservoir at night when the pump is off. This pipe used to be flat, until I realized that a couple of times a year I needed to clean the algae out of the backflow preventer. Since I had put that valve too close to the backflow preventer to allow for the threaded couplers it quickly became useless. The valve on top is where the water flow is controlled.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:41 PM

Tom, that is the type of systems we put in for our customers when I did landscaping but now I am a country dirt poor boy (really) I am not going to go just that way but another that works abit like that.

Toad

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Posted by ttrigg on Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:12 AM

Toad:

It was a bit pricey!  3 grand for the rock, another 2 grand for the pond parts (liner, pipes, pump etc.) 6 months of backbreaking labor.  Now that it has been up and running for just over 4 years, I like to go outside, kick back in one of the patio chairs with a tall glass of ice tea.  watch the train run, and listen to the sound of falling water.  Well worth the time, money and effort.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:47 AM

It cost me nothing to have a stream in my yard, only problem is cant put trains around it.  Too far from any power sources.

West Branch of the Papakating Creek (Runs through my woods on my property)

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:07 AM
I went to Home depot and got some of that foam.  They had the stuff specifically for water falls etc... I picked that up with some liner tape.  I sprayed the foam all around the upper pond where the water cascades out.  Hopefully this will seel it up.  I also took where the liners connect and added the liner tape.  Just above and below where I put the liner tape I put down some of that tight bond.  Give it a little extra protection from leaks.  If this does not do it I am at a lost.  I will have to stick with just running the stream when I am out playing with my RR.  The weather has been very nice.  temps in the 70's.  Great weather to work in.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:43 AM
 SNOWSHOE wrote:

It cost me nothing to have a stream in my yard, only problem is cant put trains around it.  Too far from any power sources.

West Branch of the Papakating Creek (Runs through my woods on my property)

IMHO you could have used the wire and power boosters going out that way. I am thinking about placing them out to my swamp.

Toad

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Posted by ttrigg on Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:44 PM
 ToadFrog WhiteLightn wrote:
 SNOWSHOE wrote:

It cost me nothing to have a stream in my yard, only problem is cant put trains around it.  Too far from any power sources.

West Branch of the Papakating Creek (Runs through my woods on my property)

IMHO you could have used the wire and power boosters going out that way. I am thinking about placing them out to my swamp.

Toad

Battery Power!  If you went battery then no wiring would be needed.  Just figure a way to battery power your turnouts.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:39 PM
 ttrigg wrote:
 ToadFrog WhiteLightn wrote:
 SNOWSHOE wrote:

It cost me nothing to have a stream in my yard, only problem is cant put trains around it.  Too far from any power sources.

West Branch of the Papakating Creek (Runs through my woods on my property)

IMHO you could have used the wire and power boosters going out that way. I am thinking about placing them out to my swamp.

Toad

Battery Power!  If you went battery then no wiring would be needed.  Just figure a way to battery power your turnouts.

 

The I would have to worry about the skeeters and the bears.  Plus I would hate to do all the work and have a forest fire go through and destroy everything.  Bringing the trains up down a hill to that spot would get old.   I can enjoy it more next to the house.  If it was only a little closer.  Next house.  

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 18, 2008 5:18 PM

Shoesster, photos? Wahta happening dude?

Please don't tell us your diggn out there....Banged Head [banghead] That is labor!!! All those rocks. Man.

Toad

 

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:32 AM

  Im in the process of digging my trench to fill with balast.  The back end of my layout is all rock.   Pictures coming soon.  bugs have been really bad the last two days.

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Posted by SNOWSHOE on Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:34 PM

Finished my trench and put down my base layer of balast.  I tamped it down with a home made tamper, worked great.  My stream still leaks but i checked everything and found nothing.  My guess is it is from capillary action.  You can see where the water runs up the banks and makes the rocks and dirt wet.  Here are some pictures.  I am also going to put some cribbing in where the tracks cross the creek.  I took some tree branches and going to shave/carve them.  Then paint them to protect the wood.  Sort of an experiment.  I want to makw my wood like they did in the late 1800's.  Going to try a trestle like that too.  Should be ral rustic looking (I hope).

 

 

This is my new Lionel set I got.  My brothers in-laws were getting rid of it, so he grabbed them for me.  Army lionel not sure how old but my gues about 20 years old. Wish it was G scale though Good find for free.

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Posted by Coogler Rail Line on Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:36 PM

Show us more pictures....or we will bring back more Richard Simmons

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