Well, Doug, I believe that if you checked the archives of this or just about any other toy train forum, you would find ample threads related to the CW80--my guess is that more threads have been devoted to that transformer, in detail, than to any other power supply in the long history of O gauge transformers. Not all who posted serious concerns to those threads could be wrong.
You asked "WHY do so many people HATE the Lionel CW-80 transformer?" Those are your exact words and the title of this thread. The reasons are many and well documented, I believe, and a simple search should easily lead you to the answers you're looking for. I opened the thread because I found it somewhat hard to believe that the word hadn't been adequately spread at this point.
I once owned three of them; now have one that resides in its box, awaiting some future disposition. So I guess I'm fairly well qualified--or was at one point--to comment on this item, which I did on numerous occasions in the hope that it would avoid seeing others subject themselves to disappointed in this fine-looking, but notoriously erratically performing transformer.
lionelsoni wrote:"Smile, Trains are Supposed to be Fun, Doug"
Smile, Trains are Supposed to be Fun,
BTW, that closing line is one that I am known for down at the club, I use it often when one of our dispatchers gets frustrated when things aren't working out quite right.
Doug.
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni wrote: Challenger, I didn't detect that Allan had been offended; his reply seems pretty calm and neutral to me. For more detail, you might search "CW80" on the forum. You asked why folks didn't like the CW80, and your question was answered, with "actual information", it seems to me. I wonder that you asked for an exposition of the CW80's faults and then are upset by negativity in the replies.There are several postwar transformers that can be connected to go down to zero volts, including the popular 1033 and KW.By the way, you were the one who opened the thread, not Allan.
Challenger, I didn't detect that Allan had been offended; his reply seems pretty calm and neutral to me. For more detail, you might search "CW80" on the forum. You asked why folks didn't like the CW80, and your question was answered, with "actual information", it seems to me. I wonder that you asked for an exposition of the CW80's faults and then are upset by negativity in the replies.
There are several postwar transformers that can be connected to go down to zero volts, including the popular 1033 and KW.
By the way, you were the one who opened the thread, not Allan.
Thank You for the info on the 1033 and the KW, I don't have any experience with them, this is more the kind of answer that I was looking for
No, I STARTED this thread, Allan had to OPEN it to read it, the title was VERY CLEAR about the content, if he thought that the subject had already been beat to death in previous forums that I had missed, then it was real easy, don't open the thread. There are plenty of threads posted that I don't open for various reasons, that don't interest me, but I don't go into them then tell them that they shouldn't have posted, I just don't open/read them.
Doug
I, too, had read the reviews of the CW-80. Some of the comments were about the early production models. Last July, I purchased a brand new one on E-Bay for $40. (incl. s&h). I use it to run accessories and a smaller loop. To date, I have had no problems.
I like the appearance. It is not as powerful as my ZW but it serves its purpose.
I think the "Love-Hate" relationship arises from individual experiences with a particular machine and the individual expectations for its performance.
For me, the price was right for the purpose intended.
Allan Miller wrote: Bob is absolutely correct: There have been MANY posts, on this and other forums, that more than adequately expressed dissatisfaction with the CW80, complete with detailed reasons. I've posted a number of comments on that topic myself in recent years, and will not repeat my concerns here. It's a subject that has been discussed to death--quite literally.To be sure, there are some folks who like the CW80 (I like its appearance myself, but not its operation), and those folks should be perfectly content with what they have and the choices they made. If you have a CW80 and like it, more power to you, and you certainly don't need any justification from anyone else to support your selection.
Bob is absolutely correct: There have been MANY posts, on this and other forums, that more than adequately expressed dissatisfaction with the CW80, complete with detailed reasons. I've posted a number of comments on that topic myself in recent years, and will not repeat my concerns here. It's a subject that has been discussed to death--quite literally.
To be sure, there are some folks who like the CW80 (I like its appearance myself, but not its operation), and those folks should be perfectly content with what they have and the choices they made. If you have a CW80 and like it, more power to you, and you certainly don't need any justification from anyone else to support your selection.
I have been in three rail less than 2 years now, model railroading more than 35 though, and I still am learning a lot about 3R AC trains yet. I came on the forum hoping to learn more and get useful information from other modelers. If you have some actual information it would be appreciated, but the negative attitude is not what the forums were intended for. I'm sorry that I missed all those past forums, but my thread title was very clear about the content, I am sure that there are many other newer modelers that may not have seen the older posts either. So if you are tired of the topic why even open the thread? I was looking for information about something that I did not know, the only dumb question is the one that you don't ask (within reason of course)
It seems to me that there have been many postings of the specifics of "why they dislike it so much". Here is mine from February:
"My principal objection to the CW80 has to do with the upside-down wiring of its outputs, which make it unusable in many popular accessory applications unless you are willing to hook it up in a way that reverses the whistle and bell functions. Lionel has apparently recently fixed this problem. However, they seem not to admit that anything had been wrong and have given us no good way to tell the corrected transformers from the earlier ones without an electrical test. So, if you buy one, be forewarned that you might be getting new-old stock.
"Another design problem is that the CW80 must be loaded with something like a lighted lockon if you expect it to be able to reverse newer locomotives. Not a show-stopper, but a nuisance.
"A third problem that I have with it is the ramping of the output. This is purely a personal preference, that the output should follow the control immediately, as with the transformers I grew up with. You may love it the other way.
"Another thing to watch out for is that the CW80 puts out a distinctly non-sinusoidal waveform. Some folks have reported that some non-Lionel locomotives and accessories misbehave as a result. This waveform also has the quirk that its voltage cannot be read correctly with a conventional AC voltmeter. I have posted a chart several times for correcting the meter reading to the actual (RMS) voltage."
Here's a good reason.
Ask anyone from a country who's mains power is generated at 50Hz and the chances are they will voice their disllike.
The CW-80 DC offset whistle and bell circuits malfuntion on 50Hz causing the whistle and bell to sound continuously. This has caused quiet a few problems on this side of the pond.
It would be nice if Lionel could sort this problem or a least mention in the catalogue what items are not 50Hz compatible to avoid people's disappointment. And the negative customer feedback that results.
Your average customer is now so used to electrical equipment that can cope with 50Hz/60Hz and variable voltage 110/240V. i.e. Sony playstation 2. That the lack of this sort of multi-national support comes as a complete surprise.
I was on the "other" forum and a Lionel dealer mentioned he sent 20 Lionel Sets to the UK alone at Christmas and that very day he had just posted 12 parcels abroad of which 7 were bound for the UK. From that I would say the foreign markets are well worth looking after.
Nick
Doug,
I also like the looks of the CW80, but I am disappointed with its performance for the following reasons:
1. When attempting to run a postwar steamer and blow the whistle, the transformer go into "fold back mode" and gradually kills the power.
2. Fold back mode. A circuit breaker would be much better since it kicks off instead of just reducing the power.
3. The delay that results from pushing the direction button and having to wait for the power to slowly come back up. This seems unnecesary.
I prefer the MTH Z1000 because it does not exhibit these traits, there are no compatability issues, and it has more power. But, I like the CW80 for its looks.
I have read many posts commenting on the CW-80 transformers, but no one ever states why they dislike it so much. So WHY do you guys hate the CW-80 so much, I would like to hear actual reasons (I truly am curious) not just blanket statements of how HORRIBLE it is.
I have quite a few transformers 2 ZWs (an original w/R windings, and a "NEW ZW") plus MTH Z-500, 750, 1000s, and obviously some CW-80s.( bought the MTH Z series early in the learning curve, and most were acquired in sets) ALL the other transformers (including both ZWs) have a minimum voltage that is so high that my smaller locomotives (especially ones without sound) can not be started smoothly or run at a slow speed. 0-6 or so volts and they just take off like a rocket. Why can't Lionel and MTH get a lower minimum voltage on their BETTER transformers? even the $429.00 list price ZW, man you would think that for over 400 bucks you could get a decent starting voltage, but it doesn't seem so.
And as far as appearances go the CW-80s in my opinion have the MTH z series beat hands down they're not even a close second. The MTH z series to me look like something from a cheap HO starter set. And I absolutely HATE the external power bricks ( yes, I know that the "NEW ZWs use them too, and also that Lionel made the BW-80, a CW with a power brick)
So how about it what are your REASONS for disliking the CW-80s?
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