jchase1970 wrote: My LHS sells everything for retail or higher, I don't know how he stays in business, well yes I do, the nearest hobbyshop with Lionel trains is about 50 miles. I go to him to buy magizines and not much else. I will drive 2 hours to Louisville or even 3 hours to Indianapolis. And because of my LHS high prices I don't hesitate to shop online.
My LHS sells everything for retail or higher, I don't know how he stays in business, well yes I do, the nearest hobbyshop with Lionel trains is about 50 miles. I go to him to buy magizines and not much else. I will drive 2 hours to Louisville or even 3 hours to Indianapolis. And because of my LHS high prices I don't hesitate to shop online.
Same here, only my LHS sells everything at MSRP. I used to go in to buy magazines, but now I just go in to view certain products up close for quality purposes etc. I also use them to buy track, but not switches because I found an online retailer that sells O-22's for $37. I don't know how they stay in business, but I guess there are enough folks in the hobby who have yet to fully turn to the internet as their source for train supplies. Shame on them, because they are missing all the deals.
John
One example of inflated prices above MSRP is at Hobby Lobby. Take your Lionel Catalog in and you will see prices well above what the catalog says. The exception is the expansion sets that they have that has Lionel's price of $109 right on the box. Otherwise, they have it for between 30-60% above MSRP. The only time it gets to OK pricing is with the 30% over and then get a 40% coupon from Hobby Lobby. Then it is 10% below catalog price. I took a catalog into the store and showed the girl. Her comment was that the pricing is dictated from the main office and she could not do anything about it.
To HL's credit, they do have some items that they put on clearance and will cut the price dramatically. Like the shaker bottles of Woodland scenics ground foam, ballast, etc. They have them on the shelf for clearance and when you check out at the register, the $9+ container comes up $3.00. I loaded up.
In the end, you as the consumer just need to educate yourself about what you are buying. This also goes for items at a trainshow. What may seem like a good deal could actually be a bad deal when all is said and done. To quote the seargent from Hill Street Blues, "Let's be carefull out there".
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
How fast does Lionel Inventory have to be sold by large retailers?
How do they set the calender for a blowout sale?
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
The loop hole here is the dealer you posted stated "suggested retail", not "MSRP". Nothing can be done to prevent inflated "suggested retail". It is illegal. Our free market enterprise system prohibits it unless it is an federally regulated essential to life such as gas and electricity.
EIS2 wrote: I think some of the replies missed the point. Any retailer is free to charge more then the MSRP if he chooses. The retailer is also free to only list his price and not state the MSRP. He should NOT misrepresent the MSRP. Earl
I think some of the replies missed the point. Any retailer is free to charge more then the MSRP if he chooses. The retailer is also free to only list his price and not state the MSRP. He should NOT misrepresent the MSRP.
Earl
It's the consumer's responsibility--100%--to do his homework and know what he is buying (and willing to pay) before he makes the purchase. If the price is not to your liking, regardless of what any stated MSRP may have been, keep your wallet closed and walk away. Dealers can, and sometimes will, charge what they feel the market will bear.
Remember: MSRP means "Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price." No dealer is obligated to sell items at that price.
The MSRP is a point of reference for most shoppers. If the retailer lies about the MSRP, then that represents fraud in my book. If the retailer guesses at the MSRP, as one poster stated, then he should be honest enough to say it is a guess (or better yet, not state the MSRP).
A retailer also can damage the supplier (Lionel, MTH, Williams, etc.) by misreprepresenting their MSRP by giving the false impression that their products cost more then they actually do.
When I see that a retailer lies about MSRP (as opposed to an honest mistake), I do not do any more business with that retailer.
fifedog wrote:SIMPLE...don't shop from that retailer.
and simple answers are the best answers.
I guess the lesson learned is: Don't shop at Train Discounters.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Another possibility is that the manufacturer originally announced a higher msrp to the dealers who continue to use that price because they don't realize it has changed or haven't had time to go through all their ads to change it. It's also possible that the dealer guessed at the msrp based on his cost. Since it's not their actual price I don't see it as a big deal.
I recently bought a steam locomotive. The dealer advertised it as msrp $650, his price was $475. The manufacturer's web site offers it for $599.95 plus shipping. Am I cheated?, no I'm delighted I paid $125 less then then manufacturer's web site price and saved the shipping of $11.50 since I bought it at a train show.
In these days of the internet I don't think there are very many dealers who are deliberately trying to get sales by artificially inflating the msrp. You can and should know what prices are. If you don't then they obviously aren't that important to you. Anyway in the end it's the price you paid that counts.
Enjoy
Paul
brianel027 wrote: Steve, the answer is simply and legally, absolutely nothing*. Supply and demand rules apply here: if something is selling, raise the price. If consumer demand is nil, you lower the price.
Steve, the answer is simply and legally, absolutely nothing*. Supply and demand rules apply here: if something is selling, raise the price. If consumer demand is nil, you lower the price.
as long as we are talking about toy trains and not the necessities of life after a calamity.
In fact, when certain automobiles have hit the market, dealers have asked and gotten prices higher than MSRP.
Lionel and others print a disclaimer in their catalogs stating that the prices in the catalogs are suggested retail and to consult dealers for further information. Which pretty much means they can either raise or lower prices however they see fit to do.
In defense of small dealers, most operate on small margins of 25-30%. So a $100 train item is purchased by the dealer wholesale for $70-75 plus freight charges and finance charges. Doesn't leave much room to discount prices to the consumer. Plus on some items, Lionel places dealer allocation numbers, meaning those items are available in limited numbers to all dealers. Other items are available as a premium based on a large minimum order, meaning the dealer has to order a lot of other items to get the few he really wants. Other items are made to specific quantities based on pre-orders meaning if the dealer does not preorder, he does not get those items.
So when a small dealer senses an opportunity to make money, they will often seize the chance. There are tons of examples: the first issue gold Aquarium Car which tripled in price when it was dropped from the next catalog. Now you can find it for around its' original list price. Or the first issue uncataloged Vapor Records box car made for Neil Young. Several thousand went out through normal channels to dealers at normal list of $44.95. When dealers realized what this car was and that is was also uncataloged, the price jumped overnight to $200.00. Rip off? Maybe. But on the other hand, if there are folks willing to pay $200 for a box car, there are dealers willing to happily charge that.
On the other hand, there are plenty of items that fail to muster up planned sales and end up as blowouts. Usually the blowouts go to a few select dealers, and the other smaller dealers who still have these unsold items in stock now get raked over the coals.
The only thing you can honestly do* is when you see something like this that YOU feel is overpriced, DON"T BUY IT. Simple as that. Look around and try to find it cheaper. If, using your example, you pay the price asked for, you send a message to that dealer that those items are actually worth more, because you spent more to get it. Eventually if the items don't sell, the dealer is going to have to lower the price.
Believe me, I've been in the business.... unsold inventory costs money. If you don't move products out in a few months, you going to actually lose money on it between the cost of the item, interest charges, tied up income and all the other related costs of keeping a store open. It takes some dealers a very long time to figure this one out. I've seen guys carry around stuff to shows for years asking the same ridiculous prices before they finally come to their senses (or their wives - or worse yet, collection agencies - make them come to their senses).
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
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What can be done to prevent retailers who deliberately inflate the actual manufacturer's selling price, simply to mislead consumers into thinking that their selling price is considerably less?
I believe that the legal community would consider that this borders on fraud (i.e. false advertising).
How often have you encountered this, and have you done anything about it?
If so, what?
Train Discounts says that MSRP for the Lionel Polar Express set is $351.95.
Lionel's website, on the other hand, says that it is $299.99
Example:
(Click the image to ENLARGE it)
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