For realibility, sound,detail and price. Which are the better of the two?Also other manufactors William's etc.
This could start a range war!
Anyway, I have some of each and like them all.
(Pretty non-commital, huh)
Seriously,
I recommend seeing a demo of each BEFORE you let anyone prejudice your decision
Don
Boy could this question unleash a firestorm. Before it gets ugly, I will try to be reasonable. It really depends on what you want. I highly suggest going to view layouts at a few different places and see what the capabilities of DCS and TMCC are. Also, look at the details for yourself. Some will say that without the last accurate rivet in the right place, brand X is a piece of junk. Others will say that no "toy" is worth more than $400.00. They are both right...in thier case.
All the above being said, I think that the offerings by K-Line had some very nice scale pieces at good prices and you would be hard to beat them.....now that they are under Lionel, well, they are still good, just a bit more expensive. Williams makes some very nice product, but without the command and perhaps some other details that many are willing to forgo for a good engine that will run well for a long time.
From what I have seen over the last few years and I think it goes back for many years, Lionel, MTH both have very good product. Both companies have had issues with some items, but for the most part, they work them out. In the end, you need to be honest with yourself. What is important to you? Do you want scale detail and speeds, sound, etc. Or, do you want something that can fit into less than say 72" turns and allows you to put a lot of trains on the tracks? Do you want to have a command system and what type of layout will you run it on? Could you upgrade to a command system in the future and may want to think about the items you collect now so that you don't have to sell off to buy what you really wanted anyway.
You will get many folks who are diehard fans of a particular company. This tends to muddy the waters in a fair debate. While I have several engines of several different manufacturers, I do favor one over the others, but it is a personal bias and I really can't say anything bad about the other companies. I can say that I wish K-Line was still separate from Lionel as they offered some good items at good prices, and the added competition was good for us.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
"For realibility, sound,detail and price. Which are the better of the two?"
I know of no objective data that support any consistent and consumer level differences in these aspects of the products. Many folks feel Lionel's sound is notably better quality than MTH's and MTH's products are slightly less pricey in many instances. Other than that, it's purely a matter of personal preference for things such as control systems, color of the box, warm fuzzy feelings due to non-product related issues, etc., in my opinion.
10 years ago I was getting back into the hobby. I had some postwar Lionels and was looking to expand and get some new trains. I bought a MTH starter set with a 2-8-0 stem engine. Wow, was I impressed. I buy both Lionel and MTH, but tend to lean toward MTH because of the good experience with that starter set.
I dont understand the MTH vs Lionel debate. They both make great products. Its kinda like the Ford vs Chevy thing. Just dont get the steadfast loyalty some people have with manufacturers.
Its very confusing when you start back into this hobby. Reading books and magazines can get you updated and sometimes confused over all the new electronics these days. Keep it simple, buy what interests you and learn all you can. And this forum is a great place to ask questions. Dont think any question is too dumb. There are probably others with the same questions.
Good- luck
In my opinion....................LIONEL
Stan.
THE SOUTHERN SERVES THE SOUTH.
Without command control Williams is hard to beat.
Old MPC Lionel can also be a value.
For running an 027 layout RMT (Beeps, Peeps etc) is hard to beat (but Lionel/K-line have some switchers that come close).
For low priced command sets MTH is the winner. But for the price of the command system (remote and controller) Lionel has the edge. For low priced non command sets some K-line can still be found at low prices and Lionel also has a sets.
For all the bells and whistles, scale, and detail Lionel and MTH make very nice products at very high prices.
In conclusion, it depends on what you want to run!
Jim H
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
pbjwilson wrote: 10 years ago I was getting back into the hobby. I had some postwar Lionels and was looking to expand and get some new trains. I bought a MTH starter set with a 2-8-0 stem engine. Wow, was I impressed. I buy both Lionel and MTH, but tend to lean toward MTH because of the good experience with that starter set. I dont understand the MTH vs Lionel debate. They both make great products. Its kinda like the Ford vs Chevy thing. Just dont get the steadfast loyalty some people have with manufacturers.Its very confusing when you start back into this hobby. Reading books and magazines can get you updated and sometimes confused over all the new electronics these days. Keep it simple, buy what interests you and learn all you can. And this forum is a great place to ask questions. Dont think any question is too dumb. There are probably others with the same questions.Good- luck
As most here have indicated, it's strictly a matter of personal preference and who makes the items that meet your hobby needs and interests.
There are, of course, some brand loyalists out there, but I never was one of those even way back when I was growing up in the late 40s and into the late 50s. I had mostly Lionel trains back then, but also had Marx items and some trains made by manufacturers who have long since gone out of business.
These days, I have no brand preferences whatsoever, at least in O gauge. I buy Lionel, MTH, Williams, RMT, K-Line, and any other brands that come up with a product I like. I don't own any Atlas or Weaver locomotives at this point because all the stuff they've made in the past is too large for my interests, too focused on roads that are not of particular interest to me, or a bit too costly. However, I do use Atlas track and other items, as well as accessories and rolling stock from any and all brands.
"Best bang for the buck" can only be ascertained when one knows whose buck is being talked about. Some folks here have very deep pockets, and others of us keep a lot tighter control over our spending, either because we need to or want to.
Every manufacturer out there has produced some great product, and every manufacturer out there has also produced some dogs.
Despite what anyone ever tells you, there is no "best" in this hobby. What's best is only what's best for you. There may be some "better thans," but that, too, is a totally subjective evaluation. For example, I personally think that Western Hobbycraft's trolleys are "better than" any other trolleys I've ever seen in O gauge.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Buckeye Riveter wrote:The very best bang for the buck is: ATHERN......but it is not O Scale.
Not any more (except for their selection of trucks), though the Athearn O scale line is still being sold by another manufacturer (though the name escapes me at this moment). And they are a good value.
I am happy to see that this has been a very level headed discussion so far. Hope it stays that way. I think I own something from every major 3 rail O gauge manufacturer that is still around. That being said I love TMCC & DCS and seldom run the conventional stuff that I own. TMCC is a little simpler to set up and it is not quite as fussy about wiring or dirty track. On the other hand DCS is easier to use and you can control TMCC engines with the DCS remote. DCS is very fussy about the wiring and also requires very clean track to maintain control. The grandkids prefer the DCS controler over the Cab 1. Some of what I just said does not hold true for the new TMCCII system. Of course the new Lionel system negates the price advantage that they had with the old system.
As far as engines and rolling stock, I have more MTH engines because they have the prototypes available that I prefer. The bulk of my rolling stock is Atlas but I do own Both MTH & Lionel as well as Kline. The last three are about equal in quallity in my opinion. They all have two or three levels of detail & price.
Now to get to the answer to the question that was asked. I think they are about equal.
to so much of what has been said, especially that it is all above board. One thing that I may add, if you want a particular type of engine for example, say a NYC Hudson. You will want to look at all the manufacturers and see what each has available in the price range that you want. You should get the particular one you want, regardless of manufacturer. You can set your budget for say under $250. then, look and see, perhaps you can find a nice Williams #773, or a MTH RailKing, etc. Then compare, perhaps this one has command and all the features I want for $230, but that one has a strong motor, is prototypical, but does not have TMCC for $150. You may be the happiest by buying the second unit and installing a after-market board to make it command, they would come out to be about the same price, but the second is more of what you want.
BMRR wrote: In my opinion....................LIONELStan.
Ditto.
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.
Spongebob:
Both have excellent products. Other companies like Atlas, Weaver and Williams also make excellent products. You just have to find which one has the most personal appeal. Being a relative newbie myself, I was confronted with this quandry when I purchased a starter set last year. For me, MTH was a better choice since I liked scale sized trains. Seeing the Lionel and MTH engines side by side I liked the heft and detail of the MTH set a little more. However, if I was more of an O27 fan, I would have liked Lionel better. I like the fact you can immediately add on to the Lionel starter sets with expansion packs at a reasonable cost.
Ultimately, you need to decide what you like and then you can make a reasonable decision. If your honest with yourself, you will be happy regardless of which manufacturer you choose.
Good Luck,
John O
They've all made good stuff and they've all produced some turkeys.
In terms of "value", most of the Williams engines offer more value but this has to be tempered by what they aren't offering as much in the way of detail, accuracy or electronics. This also means that they cost less to buy, are harder to break, and have a better warranty.
K-Line probably had the best streamline passenger cars when they were stil in business and offered some nice loco's at attractive prices.
Atlas probably makes the most detailed and accurate models but they tend to be fragile when compared to the other guys offerings.
Lionel anf MTH have the most elaborate electronics packages which are a) very nice when they work, b) fairly expensive, c) more difficult to deal with when they don't work, and d) more expensive to repair when they really do break.
Assuming that we are talking "Starter Sets" there are sets by Lionel and MTH. The Lionel sets can generally be found to be lower in cost than the MTH but at the same time they won't have the sound systems that MTH has. Another consideration is the power supplies and track that will come with the sets. I believe that the starter set MTH transformers are better than the Lionel based on past history, don't know if the problems have been resolved in newer units. If this is going to be for a youngster I favor the Lionel track for ease of assembly even though I believe the MTH track will possibly last longer.
Bottom line : look around, visit some shows/demos, clubs, etc. Then buy what you like and enjoy, after all they're just toys.
Remember the Veterans. Past, present and future.
www.sd3r.org
Proud New Member Of The NRA
chuck wrote: Lionel and MTH have the most elaborate electronics packages which are a) very nice when they work, b) fairly expensive, c) more difficult to deal with when they don't work, and d) more expensive to repair when they really do break.
Lionel and MTH have the most elaborate electronics packages which are a) very nice when they work, b) fairly expensive, c) more difficult to deal with when they don't work, and d) more expensive to repair when they really do break.
I like that Chuck. That about sums it up with the electronics in trains these days.
Go into your purchase with an open mind. All the train companies make wonderful products. I prefer to run Lionel and Williams, but I have MTH, K-Line and RMT as well. All are about the same as far as reliability and quality.
And the dish ran away with the spoon?
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
I run both MTH and Lionel. Have both the TMCC and DCS, and can run the MTH in conventional mode with the TMCC and new ZW with the 180 watt blocks. All run great and the MTHs smoke up a storm,cough cough.
laz57
jefelectric wrote: I am happy to see that this has been a very level headed discussion so far. Hope it stays that way. I think I own something from every major 3 rail O gauge manufacturer that is still around. That being said I love TMCC & DCS and seldom run the conventional stuff that I own. TMCC is a little simpler to set up and it is not quite as fussy about wiring or dirty track. On the other hand DCS is easier to use and you can control TMCC engines with the DCS remote. DCS is very fussy about the wiring and also requires very clean track to maintain control. The grandkids prefer the DCS controler over the Cab 1. Some of what I just said does not hold true for the new TMCCII system. Of course the new Lionel system negates the price advantage that they had with the old system.As far as engines and rolling stock, I have more MTH engines because they have the prototypes available that I prefer. The bulk of my rolling stock is Atlas but I do own Both MTH & Lionel as well as Kline. The last three are about equal in quallity in my opinion. They all have two or three levels of detail & price.Now to get to the answer to the question that was asked. I think they are about equal.
John nailed it. I own locos from all 3 (MTH, Lionel, and Williams). All have their advantages and disadvantages. I also like MTH because of their ability to run TMCC with the DCS remote and I don't use conventional locos very much.
Dep
Virginian Railroad
The best trains you can buy are by Lionel made between 1948 and 1957. After that, everything went downhill.
Deputy wrote: jefelectric wrote: I am happy to see that this has been a very level headed discussion so far. Hope it stays that way. I think I own something from every major 3 rail O gauge manufacturer that is still around. That being said I love TMCC & DCS and seldom run the conventional stuff that I own. TMCC is a little simpler to set up and it is not quite as fussy about wiring or dirty track. On the other hand DCS is easier to use and you can control TMCC engines with the DCS remote. DCS is very fussy about the wiring and also requires very clean track to maintain control. The grandkids prefer the DCS controler over the Cab 1. Some of what I just said does not hold true for the new TMCCII system. Of course the new Lionel system negates the price advantage that they had with the old system.As far as engines and rolling stock, I have more MTH engines because they have the prototypes available that I prefer. The bulk of my rolling stock is Atlas but I do own Both MTH & Lionel as well as Kline. The last three are about equal in quallity in my opinion. They all have two or three levels of detail & price.Now to get to the answer to the question that was asked. I think they are about equal. John nailed it. I own locos from all 3 (MTH, Lionel, and Williams). All have their advantages and disadvantages. I also like MTH because of their ability to run TMCC with the DCS remote and I don't use conventional locos very much.Dep
3railguy wrote:The best trains you can buy are by Lionel made between 1948 and 1957. After that, everything went downhill.
I'll agree, except that
I'd say 1946 instead if 1948, but that basicly applies to 2 engines instead of the hundreds available each year amongst the importers.
Probably 95% of what I run is postwar or MPC era Lionel. The engines are cheap and reasonably reliable (no electronics to screw up), and the cars are cheap. I grew up in the MPC days of Lionel, so nostalga hasn't been much of a factor in my buying discisions.
I do own a few MTH items (mostly their hot metal cars), a few newer Lionel products (more hot metal cars, and some other stuff like Thomas),and a couple of Weaver cars (reasonably priced, but look silly behind my o27 sized engines because Weaver cars are SCALE SIZED. I also own a few more pieces from other companies, but I'll leave those out, as they are either no longer around, or I don't own enough to comment on.
As others have said, it depends what you want your layout to look like. For me, its postwar/MPC Lionel on a very childish sceniced layout. If you're looking for hirail, my rolling stock isn't likely to cut it for you. If you don't call me names, I won't call you names.
If I was into scale O trains, I think a lot, if not most, of my cars would be Weaver, since on the O scale group of products, they seem to give the most bang for the buck. Heck, a lot of their scale sized cars are cheaper than the "traditional sized" cars made be their counterparts.
I'm truly impressed as to how civil this thread has stayed. Let's keep it that way, shall we?
J White
3railguy wrote: The best trains you can buy are by Lionel made between 1948 and 1957. After that, everything went downhill.
I'll second JW's thought regarding extending that back to 1946. My very best post war runners are all 1946 models - 224, 221 and 726 - all silky silky smooth, quiet strong pullers.
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