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Lionel Centry Club 1- What happened to our investment value?

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Posted by Dave45681 on Saturday, February 3, 2007 7:06 PM
 wrmcclellan wrote:

Found the paperwork - original price (1999) was $749 including shipping. The separate B unit was $199. The display case was another $179.

Only clarification I would add is that the $179 was for the larger case to hold the ABA combo.  For CC1, the cases in general came with the engine set(as it did the NYC F3, but it could only hold the AA). 

This was the special case where the add on piece made a larger case necessary/desireable.  (I suppose such could be said for the turbine, but no one really would display the LL tender and PRR tender together at the same time, I don't think)

 

-Dave

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Posted by wrmcclellan on Friday, February 2, 2007 9:43 PM

Craig - I was a subscriber to both Century Club sets. I did not subscribe for investment or collectability, I did it to run 'em. At the times these locos were released they were significant. Several of the CC locos were the first release of a new sound feature or a new body element/mold (i.e. the new trainmasters and the M10000). I see these units going new/OB for about the same discount of any loco of similar vintage. Some are more, some are less.

Found the paperwork - original price (1999) was $749 including shipping. The separate B unit was $199. The display case was another $179.

Regards, Roy

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Posted by 3railguy on Friday, February 2, 2007 12:43 PM

I think too many people confuse the term "collectible" with the term "investment". They are not the same. An investment is something that gives you a monetary return. Collectibles are things that are accumalated and enjoyed. If manufacturers thought their trains were investments, they would stamp ""investment series" on the box.

Speculators only have themselves to blame as they flood the market with the same stuff.

John Long Give me Magnetraction or give me Death.
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Posted by Deputy on Friday, February 2, 2007 12:14 PM

Marty: DANG! Evey time I see your CC pics I drool all over the keyboard. Now you went and soggied-up my new laptop!!! Laugh [(-D]

Dep

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Posted by Craignor on Friday, February 2, 2007 11:45 AM

Thanks Roy,

Do you remember what the MSRP was, and did you have to pay full boat?

Thanks.

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Posted by wrmcclellan on Friday, February 2, 2007 10:53 AM

CCI NYC F3's - checked my set.

Magnetraction, crew figures, dual Pullmor motors, no traction tires, no Odyssey, no smoke. Nice units.

Regards, Roy

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Posted by Craignor on Friday, February 2, 2007 10:06 AM

Marty,

Oh yeah! I WON the Phantom set on Ebay back then and got my "test run only" set for $700.

When it showed up the drive gear was stripped, the TMCC/RS board was fried, and the wheels spun out on my MTH Realtrax. Boy did I get hosed!Dead [xx(]

After a new board from Lionel (on the houseBow [bow]), a new brass drive gear, and a upgraded traction tired power truck was installed, it runs great.

This is a cool set and I am glad I own it. 

Of all my trains, when a kid comes into the train room, its the first one they want me to run!Cool [8D]

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Posted by NYC Fan on Friday, February 2, 2007 9:52 AM

First of all I don't think the Century Club locomotives were as faithfully reproduced as the new PWC Series.

Secondly, there was no discount available and Century Club members paid a premium to get them.

Thirdly, Since it was assumed that they were collectible and would go up in value, anyone who wanted them, joined the club and bought them. Those who were not collecting at the time, have other options now (see First of all) 

Skip

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Posted by MartyE on Friday, February 2, 2007 9:43 AM

Craig

 

I believe it was you and I that got caught up in Norms Phantomania years ago.  If I recall correctly we both ended up with one...

Sorry you can have my CCF3s when they pry it from cold dead Cab1Big Smile [:D]  I should have some more pics for you tonight as well as more info.  Maybe it will be F3amania tonite.

Trying to update my avatar since 2020 Laugh

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Posted by Craignor on Friday, February 2, 2007 9:18 AM

Thanks Marty!

 Looking forward to seeing your pics and info.

 I will trade you my Phantom set for the NYC F3 set. How about it?

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Posted by MartyE on Thursday, February 1, 2007 6:15 PM
 Craignor wrote:

Folks,

 Does the CC NYC f3s have Oddyssy, crew figures, smoke, or traction tires?

No Odyssey, No smoke, I believe maganatraction and crew figures.  I'll check for sure when I hit the ground tomorrow afternoon.  I also get some more pics close up. 

Trying to update my avatar since 2020 Laugh

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Posted by Deputy on Thursday, February 1, 2007 9:51 AM
 Craignor wrote:

Folks,

 Does the CC NYC f3s have Oddyssy, crew figures, smoke, or traction tires?

2 powerful Lionel Pullmor motors in its power unit, Lionel Command reverse unit for use with Lionel TrainMaster Command control system, Railsounds from real Electro-Motive Division F3 in non-powered unit, Magne-Traction, Die-cast electrocouplers, directional headlights, and Crewtalk in 2-part TowerCom.

have to ask Marty about the rest. Smile [:)] 

Dep

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Posted by Craignor on Thursday, February 1, 2007 9:41 AM

Folks,

 Does the CC NYC f3s have Oddyssy, crew figures, smoke, or traction tires?

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Posted by laz 57 on Thursday, February 1, 2007 9:35 AM

I'm also looking at the NYC F3s from 2005 on Ebay with PS2.0 for $399.

laz57

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Posted by laz 57 on Thursday, February 1, 2007 9:34 AM

MARTY,

  What are you running behind your NYC f3s?  I am looking for passenger cars with the cigar stripe and without the silloettes of people?  Any idears?

laz57

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Posted by MartyE on Thursday, February 1, 2007 9:17 AM

Craig

 

I want to say in the $600 range and I think the B unit was seperate.  This is one of my favorite engines.  The horn is unique to all my other PWC F3s (Southern 2356 and ACL F3).  The operation is smooth and IMO the engine if this is possible ooozzzesss Lionel PW.  I can see how you could be hooked.  I have been looking for just the right consist to run behind it. 

Trying to update my avatar since 2020 Laugh

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Posted by Craignor on Thursday, February 1, 2007 9:01 AM

Folks,

 I am really diggin the NYC f3. I ran one at a friends house a few weeks ago, it was sweet.

 What was the original price on that?

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Posted by MartyE on Monday, January 15, 2007 9:04 PM
The CC F3s IMO have one of the best RS in the PWC types that I've heard.  The horn just has a really unique sound.  One of my favorites.

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Posted by luther_stanton on Monday, January 15, 2007 8:55 PM
 Deputy wrote:

I came close to bidding on the Century Club NYC F3 I posted about earlier in this thread. I figured the price bidding would skyrocket, but it went for pretty reasonable ($356). I started comparing it to my MTH NYC F3 and the MTH just has more features and looks better (also comes with a B unit). I will still keep an eye out for a Lionel CC F3 though. I still like 'em Big Smile [:D]

Dep

Ah, alas, the MTH units will never be a Lionel CC F3!  For me, with these particular engines - NYC F3s - it is all about the the very fact that they are Lionels. Maybe one day I will take the plunge and buy an original PW setSmile [:)]

I will take my Lionel NYC F3 CCs over the MTH units any day!

- Luther 

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Posted by MartyE on Monday, January 15, 2007 12:12 PM
 3railguy wrote:

A true collector surrounds himself with trains purely for enjoyment. It can be a nostalgia trip, a fascination for trains, or whatever. He might buy shrewdly or foolishly. What really matters is he's having fun and could care less what the stuff is worth twenty years from now.

 You nailed that one. 

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Posted by Deputy on Monday, January 15, 2007 11:26 AM

I came close to bidding on the Century Club NYC F3 I posted about earlier in this thread. I figured the price bidding would skyrocket, but it went for pretty reasonable ($356). I started comparing it to my MTH NYC F3 and the MTH just has more features and looks better (also comes with a B unit). I will still keep an eye out for a Lionel CC F3 though. I still like 'em Big Smile [:D]

Dep

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Posted by broadythecableguy on Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:38 PM

I would guess the cc1 hudson took a hit. The PWC Hudson has more. (Towercom, Cabchatter) it has the 700T Tender and I have seen venders sell it for under a grand with the super O set. 

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Posted by rthomps on Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:11 AM
 MartyE wrote:

One more then for you all...

 

 

 

 

THAT'S GORGEOUS!

Nice line-up!  Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

 

 

RT NTLB
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Posted by 3railguy on Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:07 AM

A true collector surrounds himself with trains purely for enjoyment. It can be a nostalgia trip, a fascination for trains, or whatever. He might buy shrewdly or foolishly. What really matters is he's having fun and could care less what the stuff is worth twenty years from now.

I can think of lots of ways to spend money and have absolutely nothing to show for it. For some reason, those things don't count.

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Posted by klahm on Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:51 PM

I bought CC-I NYC F3s for nostalgia, display, and running.  Are the more recent Lionel F3s more prototypical, detailed, etc.?  Of course!  If both were priced the same on the used market, which would I prefer?  The newer, of course!  But my CC-I ABA units are unique and nostalgic, which is worth something to me.

I bought a CC-I Pennsy GG-1 mainly as a curiousity, hoping to eventually trade it for a NYC item of similar value.  But I ended up selling it at just under half its original cost when thinning out my collection in preparation for a new house.

Others have commented on the aging of us boomers and various other phenomena, but the simple fact is that the same money now buys much better fidelity to the prototype and probably better performance, so it is no wonder that prices of "enhanced post-war" product have fallen.  Or scale product from 10-15 years ago, to wit: Lionel 700E, Weaver Dreyfus, Weaver E8s.

The prices are sustained by perceived value and rarity.  When multiple manufacturers flood the market with better product, both attributes are gone and so is the resell price.

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Posted by Deputy on Thursday, December 28, 2006 8:12 PM

 Kooljock1 wrote:
Dep, Notice I said savvy "Operators" not Savvy "Collectors". Collectors can and will do whatever turns them on. Operators only need one Turbine, 'cause that's all the P-Company had! Jon

Jon: I beg to differ. With SO MANY varieties of S2s flaoting around, you can NEVER have "enough" Big Smile [:D]. And I am an OPERATOR that will be running ALL my S2s at one time or another. Wink [;)]

S2...it's an ADDCITION Laugh [(-D]

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Posted by Frank53 on Thursday, December 28, 2006 7:42 PM
 edw wrote:

Unfortunately, demographics, along with the aging of the baby boomers who grew up playing with trains in their youth, practically guarantees that all but the rarest of items will be worth less in the future.

Sure, some new fans join the ranks each year, but they will never equal the number of collectors who are gradually phasing out of the hobby. Baby boomers are the ones who have been driving this industry, and statistically speaking, they have been at their peak earning years, just prior to retirement. That translated into a lot of disposable income available for discretionary spending on hobbies such as collecting toy trains. Now, however, as baby boomers begin their retirements on reduced, fixed incomes, overall spending on this hobby will decrease substantially. Not only are younger newcomers to the hobby fewer in number, but they just aren't in the same financial position to support the high prices currently being charged for state of the art trains.

As baby boomers retire and pass from the scene, expect to see more and more train collections being sold off. This, coupled with fewer new collectors, will result in an inexorable decline in the prices of toy trains in the future and the failure of many of the current manufacturers. We can think of this as the natural completion of the demographic shift that adversely affected Lionel 40 years ago. Nostalgia and lots of disposable income has fueled the renaissance of the toy train industry over the past two decades. Alas, all good things must come to an end.

Exactly teh point I was making a few weeks ago. There will always be a market for very rare and MIB material, but the sheer volume of material out there, and much of it isn't "junk" coupled with a declining collecting base equals lower prices.

As a post war operator, I welcome the declining prices.

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Posted by Kooljock1 on Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:51 PM
Dep, Notice I said savvy "Operators" not Savvy "Collectors". Collectors can and will do whatever turns them on. Operators only need one Turbine, 'cause that's all the P-Company had! Jon
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:45 PM
 Deputy wrote:

edw: Geez....thanks for brightening up our day.

"as baby boomers begin their retirements on reduced, fixed incomes, overall spending on this hobby will decrease substantially."

Well I'm one baby boomer that has MORE money AND time to spend on trains than I did when I was working. Maybe your analysis has some flaws in it. Most of my fellow baby boomers were smart enough to put a good deal of cash away for retirement as well as invest wisely. It's the NEXT generation that is spending money faster than they earn it.

Dep

Generalizations will hurt you nearly every time... careful how you phrase things Dep.  There are some baby boomers that DID invest and lost everything (think Enron).  There are some generation Xers (myself included) that have a nice salary and therefore have a nice disposable income and can also save for retirement... or there are those of us who are fortunate enough to have found a wife who has just as nice a salary as ourselves who happen to like trains and are willing to part with some of their disposable income to purchase us nice presents...

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Posted by Deputy on Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:24 PM

edw: Geez....thanks for brightening up our day.

"as baby boomers begin their retirements on reduced, fixed incomes, overall spending on this hobby will decrease substantially."

Well I'm one baby boomer that has MORE money AND time to spend on trains than I did when I was working. Maybe your analysis has some flaws in it. Most of my fellow baby boomers were smart enough to put a good deal of cash away for retirement as well as invest wisely. It's the NEXT generation that is spending money faster than they earn it.

Dep

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