Think Lionel postwar is going for cheap...check this...

[Deputy]

Lionel 682 S2 turbine. Hold your breath when you see what it sold for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300055527215&rd=1&rd=1

So much for Greenberg's Price Guide.

Dep

[palallin]

50 - 60 % of that price is the result of the boxes:  they are literally worth as much as or more than the train engine.  And that engine is in super shape:  this example hardly illustrates the post war market as a whole but it does help to illustrate one important aspect of it right now:  top condition + top condition boxes = big bucks.  Otherwise, this auction does nothing to disprove the fact that common pieces in mid-level condition and without boxes are seeing sagging market returns.

[49Lionel]

Right now there is validity in both points of view.  Stuff - most ALL stuff I've been watching - has been going for crazy prices on eBay, for the last few months.  I haven't bought a thing, and in fact have witnessed people overpay ridiculously.  That being said, the opposite was true in the summer, when there were some really good deals to be had.  As it figures, I didn't have train $$ then, but do now.  Guess I'm sitting on it for a while.  Question for you long-term eBayers: when do things tend to cool down - after this month, or does it stay hot for a while?

[Deputy]

50 - 60 % of that price is the result of the boxes:  they are literally worth as much as or more than the train engine.  And that engine is in super shape:  this example hardly illustrates the post war market as a whole but it does help to illustrate one important aspect of it right now:  top condition + top condition boxes = big bucks.  Otherwise, this auction does nothing to disprove the fact that common pieces in mid-level condition and without boxes are seeing sagging market returns.

Hmmm...the item sold for $840. Greenberg says that the 682 (the loco and tender, NOT the boxes) is worth $350 (2007 price guide). So those two cardboard boxes raised the price by...let me get out my calculator because this looks like a BIG number...FOUR HUNDRED AND NINETY DOLLARS!!!!! Obviously I am collecting the WRONG THING from Lionel. I gotta start looking around for good deals on cardboard boxes. Maybe I can even buy some cheap cardboard and wrinkle it up and paint it and sell it for a few thousand dollars. Good grief.

Dep

 

[Deputy]

49Lionel: A few of us E-Bayers are hoping for "buyers remorse" to set in after Christmas/New Years. I suspest more than a few of these people are going to be putting this stuff back up for sale when they start getting their VISA bills and they can't pay them. Best bet is to hold off unless you spot something you want/need REALLY bad. Unfortunately, I am in that position right now with a caboose for my S2 Turbine. There is one on E-Bay and I haven't seen it for sale ANYWHERE else. I may have to bite the bullet and shell out for it.

Dep

[anjdevil2]

Nah, I think the smoke pills are worth $400 at least......

[Deputy]

Nah, I think the smoke pills are worth $400 at least......

See Anj....and here you thought you got a good deal

Yep...the smoke pills must be the deciding factor in the price. Sure makes you wonder WHAT'S IN those pills!!!!!

Dep

[Deputy]

Hey Anj...if you're looking for a 681, this one has a pretty good price on it for buy it now. It even has THE BOX!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-681-6-8-6-ENGINE-WITH-SMOKE-CLEAN-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ180064370393QQihZ008QQcategoryZ4146QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dep

[anjdevil2]

I think I'm ok now.....I'm gonna hold out for that GG1,

 

Wait a minute, maybe I can turn a quick buck here......nah, I like my 2020.... 

[Deputy]

I think I'm ok now.....I'm gonna hold out for that GG1,

 

Wait a minute, maybe I can turn a quick buck here......nah, I like my 2020.... 

Well if you had the BOXES for the 2020, and were willing to part with them, you could probably get a SCALE Lionel GG1 no problemo

Dep

[Joe Hohmann]

The price guide "values" on some excellent or like new items can be stated as too low...ie, try to find one at that price! I agree that the prices of lesser condition stuff is going down...BUT...far fewer people are "collectors" (of anything) these days. Rather than wanting to own every item/variation that was made, they are content to own a few PRISTINE examples. This is true of the antiques/collectable market in general. Joe

[Deputy]

The price guide "values" on some excellent or like new items can be stated as too low...ie, try to find one at that price! I agree that the prices of lesser condition stuff is going down...BUT...far fewer people are "collectors" (of anything) these days. Rather than wanting to own every item/variation that was made, they are content to own a few PRISTINE examples. This is true of the antiques/collectable market in general. Joe

You're right Joe. But I think $490 is just a TAD high for those boxes

The 681 that I told Anj about looks to be in nice shape at a decent price. And I HAVE seen 682s start out being quite reasonable on E-Bay... then they skyrocket in the last few hours of bidding. Obviously "price is no object" kicks in and some of these people get carried away. I am more than willing to belive that's what happened to the S2 I posted about in the first thread. E-Bay is certainly a crazy place this time of year.

Dep

[jakeoregano]

The price guides are just that - guidelines for what you would expect to see if you were able to sample a large population of a given item in the given conditions (i.e. nationally).  There could be very large local swings upward or downward depending on local conditions of supply and demand.  When you factor in seasonal demand, you can really get crazy prices that don't come close to what the guides say something may be worth. 

As for when the crazy crazy prices on ebay tend to drop off; it's been my experience over the last 3 or 4 years that you see it cool off sometime after late February or so.  Not a hard and fast, but that's what I've seen for items that I'm interested in.  Summer is the best time to look, but selection is not necessarily all that great, so you have to be patient.  My feeling is this:  Don't overbid for an item, because I can guarantee that on all but the rarest (contrary to what the auctions say not every item is 'rare'), there will be plenty more where that came from.

[palallin]

I've seen boxes WITHOUT trains go for thousands of dollars . . . .

[Deputy]

I've seen boxes WITHOUT trains go for thousands of dollars . . . .

I don't doubt that.

"There's a sucker born every minute"

Dep

[anjdevil2]

I guess this just like Barrat Jackson for the car hobby.  Prices have gone out of sight (even without the boxes) of even the most mundane of vehicles.  Only proves that if it is presented correctly (and the time of year does help) even the most plentiful things can cost ya!

 I did use the price guide as a guide when purchasing the S-2.  I thought it was a fair value when compared to what was presented.  So, I'm pretty happy with that.

[Deputy]

Anj: That's a VERY astute observation and comparison!!!!!

Dep

[BigJim]

Hey Anj...if you're looking for a 681, this one has a pretty good price on it for buy it now. It even has THE BOX!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-681-6-8-6-ENGINE-WITH-SMOKE-CLEAN-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ180064370393QQihZ008QQcategoryZ4146QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dep

But what happened to the tender?

[Deputy]

Hey Anj...if you're looking for a 681, this one has a pretty good price on it for buy it now. It even has THE BOX!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-681-6-8-6-ENGINE-WITH-SMOKE-CLEAN-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ180064370393QQihZ008QQcategoryZ4146QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dep

But what happened to the tender?

CHRISTMAS happenned to the tender. It's probably available seperately for another $75+.
Lots of humbugs on E-Bay this time of year Geez...next you'll be wanting them to all come with the locoshell and electric motor!!!!

Dep

 

[traindaddy1]

I watch and have used "E-Bay".  One thing I've noticed is that sometimes the "BID" auction exceeds the "Buy-It-Now" price for the exact item. (You just have to 'shop') Also, you have to beware of words such as "Rare", "Vintage", "Hard to find" etc. in the description. 

I am not a "collector" so I tend not to look at a train that has a great box as a selling point. (But that's me) 

Not too long ago, I did see an empty taped Lionel box go for $376.00. Curious, I contacted the seller and asked her how she knew that the box was going to sell for that much.  She told me that she was amazed. She had seen empty boxes sell on "E-Bay" and had hoped to clear enough to help buy her son a pair of shoes.  In fact, she said, after reading her own post on "E-Bay", she was afraid that she lost the 50 cents listing fee.  You never know!

I think that there may be a few "Postwar" bargains after the first of the year but, as always, "Buyer Beware".

 

[RR Redneck]

50 - 60 % of that price is the result of the boxes:  they are literally worth as much as or more than the train engine.  And that engine is in super shape:  this example hardly illustrates the post war market as a whole but it does help to illustrate one important aspect of it right now:  top condition + top condition boxes = big bucks.  Otherwise, this auction does nothing to disprove the fact that common pieces in mid-level condition and without boxes are seeing sagging market returns.

Boxes or no boxes that is still a perty good heap er money bein heaved out there.

[Deputy]

 

Boxes or no boxes that is still a perty good heap er money bein heaved out there.

You said a mouthfull Eric. Didn't kids used to tear those boxes apart when they openned the trains???

Dep

[RR Redneck]

I am the oddball. I only buy trains if they still have the original packaging, or unless it is generally a good buy.

[ben10ben]

Box collecting's where it's at in the arena of the high end Lionel collectors who have more money than they know what to do with.

Collectors pay a premium for solid, clean boxes. Remember that for any given piece, there are likely fewer boxes in existence than the piece itself. This means that for rare pieces, the boxes are even rarer. 

As for me, I'd prefer not to have the original boxes for postwar trains. They're just one more thing that I have to keep up with and store. I feel bad, and like I've just lost a bunch of money, if one should get bent or crushed. 

 

[RR Redneck]

I dont collect the boxes separate, I just like to be able have them in the event that I would have to pack away my collection for a move or something.

[3railguy]

This thread is amazing. Half of you don't seem to understand collectors. Whatever makes a person feel good is what it's all about. I see people pay $800 for a Lionel and MTH scale steamer that will be worth $400 five years from now and nobody gets excited. In  the mind of a collector, that turbine is the real deal. Not some newly imported gizmo loaded hunk of zinc.

The 682 on ebay, which is the most desirable turbine of them all, is in primo condition. You don't see them that nice very often. I've seen excellent ones with no boxes go for $300 to 400. If this is in true like new condition, it is certainly worth much more.

 

[okiechoochoo]

I know the seller of this particular 682.  He sells only the most pristine of postwar and gets very high prices.  I have bought from him with great satisfiaction.

[3railguy]

I know the seller of this particular 682.  He sells only the most pristine of postwar and gets very high prices.  I have bought from him with great satisfiaction.

If that's the case, $840 is definately not throwing money in the wind for what he describes.

[Anonymous]

Dep I was looking at these last night, did you see this idiots price for the tender?  $200!!!!

I know the tenders are worth more than the engines in some cases because they are plastic and break easier than a cast iron engine, but these people are really pissing me off... pardon my french.  I have a very deep suspision that the people buying these items are NOT true collectors because they would KNOW the real value of these items.  To see a 682 going for $840 is just plain infrigginsane, no matter how you try to justify it... it can't be done in my opinion.

Guess I should try and unload my 2020 that I bought to rebuild and turn into a PSU engine.  Heck it only fell 4 feet onto a concrete floor, only has a dented cowprod and a gouge on the cab roof, but heck it still could out pull a HUMMER I!

[3railguy]

If it pisses you off people are selling this stuff for this kind of money and people are paying it, you should seek anger management counseling.

To say postwar steamers are cast iron proves you are the one without a clue. They are diecast zinc.