How is the new Lionel quality?

[Buckeye Riveter]

I run only Lionel TMCC engines.  Only one has headed back to Lionel for repair and it was under warranty and now it works perfect.   My HOT BOX REEFER CAR's sound died and was sent back under warranty and I received a new car.  Both returns were done within two weeks. 

As many of you know, I also have a Garden RR.  I purchased a used LGB mogul and sent it to San Diego for refurbishing, and it runs perfect.   I have now gone through two Bachman engines and three Bachman trolleys.  Bachman can not even come close to the quality in LGB.  The Bachmans do not have any electronics.  They are plain Janes.

 

[okiechoochoo]

I don't have any of the modern Lionel engines, not one.  I have postwar and Williams and getting more Williams.  Very reliable and lifetime warranty.  Comes with metal gears too.  Just take them out of the box and run them.  My postwar does just about the same..  Williams is the best buy on the market if you can live wihout the frustrations of the high techie stuff.

[nblum]

I have a bunch (dozens) of Lionel, Atlas, K-Line and even one 3rd Rail TMCC/Railsounds locos.  I don't run them very often but I've had essentially no out of the box failures and no subsequent problems to speak of.  Oh wait, one TMCC loco had to return to Lionel for a new Railsounds board under warranty.  So  a failure rate of under 5%.  I had a Powermaster die and Lionel replaced it at no cost.  So no complaints whatever.  I also have  a few Williams and MTH PS1 locos and have had no problems with them either. 

[Smoke Stack Lightnin']

Postwar Lionel was state of the art proto in the day- things have changed.  Not fair to compare apples with oranges, but I think there is an obvious demand for high techs and gingerbread.  With the high tech stuff, be it Lionel or the others, somebody for sure is making a lot of money because the $250 boards probably cost $25 or less to produce, and everybodies stuff probably comes from the same factory in China, just different corners of the building.  My wife bought me a 99 cent key chain.  Push the button on the loco and it plays a 30 second loop of about every byte from MTH's PSA including Clickity-Clack, again 99 cents and this thing is a little over an inch long.  If my old Ford falcon ran ratty I adjusted the points, today forget it, it's computer related and out of my league.  I can field strip a PW down to the last bushing, but on my new stuff, after warranty, may as well take it out back and shoot it, or buy a Williams converter board for $29, bypass the bullshirt and make it a conventional.  I've had TMCC and MTH arrive DOA and feel bad for those of you that have been turned off by a bad experience.  To me, it can be a real rush to hear the roar of acceleration on the new engines.  Scary thing is all it takes is the spike from a derailment to fry a board.  Wonder if the Williams converter boards are cheaper by the dozen!

My 2 cents, Rich F.

[RR Redneck]

I"ll tell you that as much as I strongly prefer Postwar Lionel, I just lus my new Lionels.

[phillyreading]

From what I have seen of the NEW Lionel it is basically LIONEL TURDS!!!  The Lionel 6-23011 switches were experiamentale at best!  The low end locomotives lack any pulling power, bought a GP7 that would only pull three quad hoppers, come on Lionel used to be good quality, not any quality today by Lionel!  Reminds me of Ford Motors, at one time Ford was the best American car on the road but that was like 1950, now Ford is nothing but break-down babies from day one!

My model train money is going to Williams or MTH.

Can't afford the break-down babies from Lionel!!

Lee F.

[nblum]

"From what I have seen of the NEW Lionel it is basically LIONEL TURDS!!!"

Have you ruled out user error?

[phillyreading]

nblum,

There is NO USER lack of knowledge here!!

What is it that you don't seem to understand??    I have gone by the instruction manual provided by Lionel for each of those items. Even used a volt meter to make sure that I did not provide more than 14 volts to the Lionel switch # 6-23011, seemed like the more I used the switch the more problems that kept happening!  And that is one of the reasons I say LIONEL TURDS!!!!

Also Lionel never acknowledged a problem with this series of switches but they are not made any more, so what does that tell you?  It should indicate the switches in question were factory defects!! Williams Trains said that this switch was the most problem-matic switch they have ever seen!

 As for the locomotive a GP-7 I was using a ZW to power it, NO TMCC issue as the locomotive was low price.

If this is not enuff for you to chew on what about the CW80 transformers?  From reading other posts here I would throw this transformer in the trash and replace with a Z1000 by MTH.

I try not to be biased but as I see it Lionel has brought on the problems by not giving good customer service along with defective equipment that they(Lionel) will not repair ro acknowledge a problem.

Lee

[nblum]

I've had a few Lionel products fail over the years.  They've always replaced them or refunded my money, even years after purchase in the case of an MW transformer.  Perhaps it was because I made every effort to be extraordinarily civil and polite in my requests, but everyone's mileage differs.  My dealer has also been very good about returns or exchanges, but you may not have a splendid dealer to deal with.  I've had good results with Island Trains in this regard for some mail orders, but once again, being civil and polite, and sometimes, going up the chain of responsibility is needed whether dealing with Lionel or the dealer.

Some products just don't live up to customer's expectations, and some are poorly designed to begin with, whether they be Williams, Lionel or MTH, etc.  I've bought literally 100's of Lionel items over the last 15 or so years, and fewer than 1% of them have been unsatisfactory. 

I'd say you are making rather strong statements based upon a few products you are very unhappy with and, of course, based upon your personal perceptions.  I'd also say that your claim that Williams and MTH are superior in quality to Lionel is not borne out by either my experience or the collective experience one reads about in various forums.  But hey, it's your money, and as I said, everyone's mileage differs.

[IronHoarse]

Hi,

 I own only Lionel so I can't compare with other brands.  I also only own newer products, 2004 and up, so I can't compare with PW stuff.  But I can say that I have spent several thousands of dollars on the Lionel products that I do have.  All of the items worked right out of the box with out any problem, and also still work.  I even have a CW 80 that works just fine, although it is only used for accessories now.    I run TMCC only at the present time.  I am really hooked on cruise control so I am staying away from conventional stuff.  As far as I am concerned the quality is just great on the items that I have bought.

[phillyreading]

I have Lionel stuff from the 1960's and it needs servicing occassionally.  But when new products break down a few weeks to a couple months after use it really makes me angry as can be and that is why I am so biased against the new Lionel.  Also the Lionel O gauge switch # 6-23010 (1995 to 1999) series were real DUDS!  The problems that I had with these switches just kept getting worse and I even opened up one of the switches to see what made it work, no success in repairing it! Hobby shops in nearby area even refuse to take this Lionel switch on consignment.

The Lionel trains that I have that are pre-war may not be as good looking due to age or design but they still work even the ones with electric uncouplers.

As for Williams they use steal gears and can motors. The other thing that I like about Williams is that they answer emails sent about problems, can not say that about today's Lionel.

To some it may seem that I like to pick on Lionel but in my opion the truth about Lionel's quality needs to be brought out!  Even the lawsuits that Lionel has pending makes me think that they are more concerned about making money than making model trains.

Lee F.