How is the new Lionel quality?

[Fred Bear]

How is the quality of the new Lionel stuff compared to the post war engine? Especially the steamers? Thanks to anyone responding. Best Regards, Jake

[MartyE]

Fred

I would say the biggest quality issue with all modern engines is the electronics. That being said I have been very fortunate to have only 1 out of the box failure. Your milage may vary.

[jefelectric]

Fred,

I have four modern Lionel locomotives, two with TMCC and have not had a problem with any of them. That being said I should add that none of them have a lot of miles on them so I don't know how they would stand up to constant use.

[thor]

I am NOT an expert, being new at Lionel and 0 gauge and all I have is 3 variations on the basic 0-4-0 steam train mechanism. 1 from 1954, 1 from 1972 - the latter both have plastic shells - and a modern diecast version with a can motor. I believe these engines are all known as 'Scouts'?

When I got the new one it didn't run very well at low voltage/speed so I took it apart to find out why and it needed lubrication because it was virtually dry and I added thrust washers to the center gear to reduce play and thrust washers to the connecting rods to do the same and improve the action. After which it ran extremely well, the startup voltage went from 5-6 down to 2 and it was much quieter.

I also had a bit of trouble with the power supply, there were dry soldered joints on the circuit board causing intermittent supply but that was pretty easy to deal with.

Other than that everything has been fine and the engine has proven to be robust after several crashes - 3 yr old helper! - and pulls everything I can load it up with and hasnt fried any electronics despite some spectacular shorts and sparks on occasion.

The older locos run like rockets and despite many years of hard service have held up very well. On this limited basis I'm delighted with my Lionel products and will get more.

Not really much help to you, I'm afraid but as a new customer my expectations have been exceeded and as our trains are used and run as toys they get plenty of hard work, action and unintentional accidents.

Thanks to this day after day of rain they're hogging the living room floor right now and to get my first cup of coffee of the day and sit and watch the train circulate amidst the constant traffic of clumsy adult feet, cat with a bad attitude and over enthusiastic helper joyously derailing it constantly, well, it doesnt get any better!

Long live Lionel, thats what I say.

[palallin]

Define "new." Almost 40 years have passed since the end of the "postwar" era, and Lionel has produced many, many times as many types of trains in those 3+ decades. Some have been deliberately made cheaply. Others have been far better than anything the Lionel corporation could even dream of producing.

[Anonymous]

Two out of two brand new engines did NOT work out of the box!
Westside Lumber Shay- TMCC board was unplugged and rattling around inside the cab. This engine runs now but cant negotiate a turnout at prototypical speed (has to be near full power to "slide" through the switch by momentum).
Keystone set Berkshire- TMCC- Chuff would not work. Electrocoupler at rear of tender would not work. Had to take engine apart to adjust chuff activator plate (read bend with pliars) to make the chuff work. Had to take the electrocoupler apart to get it to open so I could hook up a consist.
If I did not know electronics and basic trouble shooting technique, I would have to take these to a repair station and have them gone for a month or more to get fixed. Could not return them as the store policy where I bought them has a "No cash back-Store credit only" policy. I could not see having over $1500.00 of store credit so I dove in and fixed them meself.
Lionel Tech Support via phone was helpful about possible causes for the Shay's reluctance to negotiate turnouts. At least they were helpful and cheerful on the phone which is something.
All of the FasTrack, accessories, and TMCC stuff worked correctly the first time.

blabree11

[Bob Keller]

New products from any of the O gauge manufacturers are much better made than the postwar stuff. A higher level of engineering, better assembly, and outstanding decoration.

That having been noted, in spite of their wilder speeds, the postwar gear tends to be bullet-proof.

A P-51 Mustang might be a "better" fighter than an F-15, but like modern toy trains, the new gear (F-15) can do many things the old gear (P-51) can't.

[msacco]

This can certainly be debated forever, but I stlll say the overall quality and reliability (if that's important to you) is far superior with Lionel Corp or POstwar.
I've said this before as well. Opening up and handling a cream of the crop postwar engine like an F3, and seeing how substantial and well-made the parts are, just ends the discussion for me. EVen engines like a 2025/675 run so smoothly and quietly 50 years later and these weren't even top-end engines.
They might not have the slow speed capability and the crisp paint jobs of modern stuff, but I will bet the house that they will outlive any modern engine
Postwar Forever Baby!!!!

[dwiemer]

A few issues, I think the new Lionel engines look great, have lots of features, and for the most part, are better running overall. That being said, they have a lot more electronics and lots more to go wrong. I love my post war, in fact, I have about 80% post war stock/engines. They run like champs after many years. They are easy to maintain and repair.

I think the big issue is that most are able to do some degree of repair on the post war engines, while the new stuff is just a bit out of most peoples leage.
Dennis

[Anonymous]

The old postwar stuff is pretty reliable, no doubt about that. But I've also had a whole lot better luck than some with the newer items, and in a point-by-point overall evaluation of the two, I would give a definite nod to the newer stuff for the following reasons:

I prefer the quiet, cool-running, and efficient can motors to the older open-frame motors. Have not yet had a single can motor go bad on me.

The newer items have significantly superior paint and graphics.

The newer items generally have better, and finer, details.

I'm not knocking the postwar stuff, and still run some of mine on occasion (left over from my boyhood years), but I have no real complaints about the great variety of fine new products that are being offered today by Lionel and the others.

[wrmcclellan]

I have certainly had a few problems with my newer Lionel stuff with all the electronics.

But I can say this...

Every modern era Lionel engine I have (from 1988 to present) is still working in its original configuration (includes repairs done by Lionel and by me).

I cannot say the same for my (very expensive) JVC DV video camera (limps and can only be used to replay existing tapes - spent 18 months out of 24 in the shop), my Sony Hi8 analog video camera (dead), my Samsung Hi8 analog video camera (dead), my Samsung DVD player (just died), the first Sony PS2 (large version with space for HD), garage door opener electronics, my pile of various dead cell phones, several clock radios, several cassette tape players, two caller ID telephones, etc.

In many cases (except the clock radios, cell phones, and the PS2) the consumer electronics had less play/use time than the trains. All the consumer stuff was less than 2-5 years old when it died and most are not economically repairable, nor can I go to an aftermarket manufacturer and get replacement electronics much less improved feature replacement electronics.

[Frank53]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

New products from any of the O gauge manufacturers are much better made than the postwar stuff.

cancel my [censored] subscription!

oh wait, I don't have one.

Nevermind. [8D]

[nblum]

The trains of 2006 and 1956 are fundamentally different creatures. As has been mentioned, the trains of 1956 are robust, simple, and once working well, very reliable. They had a pretty high mortality rate because manufacturing tolerances were much broader, everything was mostly manual and subject to human error, etc. The new models have much more that can go wrong, and because they are electronic, can be damaged by electrical transients and short circuits that would not faze a 1956 model. But they operate, sound and look better because the state of the art of manufacturing has improved dramatically. They are different beasts with different strengths and weaknesses. Some people like abstract expressionism and some like pre-Raphaelite art, and some like both. Same goes for 1956 and 2006 trains. I like both.

[ChiefEagles]

Got LOTS of Lionel diesels with TMCC. All great. Sounds are great too. Just got a new UP GP30 with Railsounds 5.0. They are outstanding. I found the detail on this engine almost as great as Atlas O. Unbelievable detail.

[dbaker48]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

New products from any of the O gauge manufacturers are much better made than the postwar stuff. A higher level of engineering, better assembly, and outstanding decoration.

That having been noted, in spite of their wilder speeds, the postwar gear tends to be bullet-proof.

A P-51 Mustang might be a "better" fighter than an F-15, but like modern toy trains, the new gear (F-15) can do many things the old gear (P-51) can't.

Couldn't Agree more!!! I have a lot of postwar, some MPC, and now the newer stuff. DEFINETLY prefer the new items. Now it is a question of value among the various manufacturers. It really pays to have an "OPEN" mind regarding the suppliers. Just because it says the big L doesn't mean it is the best. And I don't think it would be where it is today if it wasn't for the competitive factors that exsist. Now is certainly a buyers market with all that is available! Try to compare similiar product lines from the vaious mfg's and you'll see what I mean. I believe we will be the ultimate winners. [2c]

[Anonymous]

Great, I have been trying to decide if I should order the SOO LINE GP35 from Atlas O or wait for LIONEL to produce the SOO LINE GP30. If they are comparable, would it just be better to wait for the GP30 and consider the GP35 later?

Andrew Falconer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrmcclellan

I have certainly had a few problems with my newer Lionel stuff with all the electronics.

But I can say this...

Every modern era Lionel engine I have (from 1988 to present) is still working in its original configuration (includes repairs done by Lionel and by me).

I cannot say the same for my (very expensive) JVC DV video camera (limps and can only be used to replay existing tapes - spent 18 months out of 24 in the shop), my Sony Hi8 analog video camera (dead), my Samsung Hi8 analog video camera (dead), my Samsung DVD player (just died), the first Sony PS2 (large version with space for HD), garage door opener electronics, my pile of various dead cell phones, several clock radios, several cassette tape players, two caller ID telephones, etc.

In many cases (except the clock radios, cell phones, and the PS2) the consumer electronics had less play/use time than the trains. All the consumer stuff was less than 2-5 years old when it died and most are not economically repairable, nor can I go to an aftermarket manufacturer and get replacement electronics much less improved feature replacement electronics.

Roy, You read my mind.....Tim

[Anonymous]

I think there is some confusion between advances in technology and quality. The P 51 Mustang fighter for example was arguably the best fighter of WW2. It was easy to manufacture in quantity,cost effective, had quality material and workmanship and could out manuver its competition. In its day it was state of the art.

It is no match for an F16 fighter assuming the F16 fighter is manufactured properly. It is superior to an F16 fighter that cannot fly due to poor quality control. If Northrup and others had the poor quality control that modern train manufacturers had WW2 would have been lost.

I have had to fix about half of my new out of box Lionel accessories. Engines have had couplers that did not work , electronics wired backwards,loose and broken parts ect. My F-3 snapped a plastic gear after one loop around the track. In my opinion these are not state of the art nor are they made with the best material available. Technologically they are better but the execution of the technology is very poor. I have bought cheap toys for $10 or less for my grandkids that have had better quality than some expensive Lionel things I have purchased and they worked out of the box.

Dale Hz

[msacco]

Dale,
YOu have nailed it right on the head.
For sure the new stuff is technologically amazing, but QC is just not there yet.


Mike S.

[PaulEFudd]

I have experienced out of box problems with newer Lionel, MTH, and K-Line, somewhere around 25% over the past 7 years. I have little experience with Postwar stuff. Most recent problems are with speed control, both Odyssey and PS2.0. Both Lionel and MTH have fixed or replaced all defects.

Paul

[3railguy]

Yes the old postwar locomotives are more reliable and simpler than the new imports. But they are not as smooth running and well detailed.

Postwar tooling was semi-hand made from pencil drawings so the mechanical tolerances were sloppy compared to today. Today's tooling is made from digital cutters from electronic drawings alowing for much tighter mechanical tolerances and finer detail.

Where postwar rules is magnetraction. With all this new technology, they give us rubber band wheels for traction on these new $1,000 steam engines! JUNK!!!

[3railguy]

Yes the old postwar locomotives are more reliable and simpler than the new imports. But they are not as smooth running and well detailed.

Postwar tooling was hand made from pencil drawings so the mechanical tolerances were sloppy compared to today. Today's tooling is made from digital cutters from electronic drawings alowing for much tighter mechanical tolerances and finer detail.

Where postwar rules is magnetraction. With all this new technology, they give us rubber band wheels for traction on these new $1,000 steam engines! JUNK!!!

[Anonymous]

As I noted in another thread on another forum: Just consider the stuff you buy today as disposable, just as you would a TV set, radio, microwave, computer, or other appliance in your household. Nobody fixes that stuff these days; they just head to WalMart or BestBuy and purchase something else.

The toy trains made today are no different. Most of them will perform fine right out of the box, and some won't. Those can either be sent for repair or returned for a refund.

A few years from now, the number of those that don't work right or fail to work at all will undoubtedly increase. At that point, you'll have little choice but repair it yourself (assuming you have the know-how and can find parts); park it on a siding or in a display case; or just junk it and get something new--just as you would do with your five-year-old computer.

[Fred Bear]

What I take from all of this is the post war stuff, (which is what I really love anyway) is more stable, more reliable and just plain good ole' faishioned America. I think I'll stick with it. Jake

[Anonymous]

I disagree with Allan. Trains are not computers and are not purchased for the same reasons.Rather they are models bought as show pieces and collectables with $15 worth of electrical parts. They have a whole different history and tradition.The electronics are not reliable because of poor design and lack of quality control. Unfortunatly the customer has not held the manufacturers feet to the fire in this area.

As far as reliability it is normal with modern electronics. I have not experienced any problems with TVs,radios,microwave ovens or even computers in cars. I simply take them ou of the box and use them and they function for years giving trouble free service.

I cant say the same for train products. They are designed poorly and there are problems right out of he box. Compare for example the Lionel lighthouse with th Mr Christmas lighthouse. The Lionel has a noisy mechanism,poor sound quality and plagued with problems. The Mr Christmas works flawlessly,quiet with better sounds and works year after year. It also costs half the price.

The technology is not the problem it is simply poor implimintation of it that is the problem.Years from now if there is an interest, modern reliable replacement electronics will be available for modern engines at reasonable cost so there will be no reason to throw away anyting that is sound mechanically. In fact even now most anything can be converted to Railsounds.

Dale Hz

[andregg1]

Hi to all
I think the real paradigm is MADE IN USA...good MADEIN CHINA ..no good.
I agree I am anti-china stuff (if i can) Today every thing is china, and the real sentiment is why the pride of USA toy trains is made in china!!!!
I love the post-war stuff or made in usa product, btw I start retooling all my f3 for best running and I decrease the "old diesel motor noise" a lot.
Andre.

[Anonymous]

My old-line Lionel repairman used to say that my Lionel F-3 AA Southern Diesels of the early '60s were like working on Sears lawnmowers, "you don't fix them, you work on 'em". But I still have the F-3s and they still run and still sound about as loud as the old International Corn Harvester we had at the farm. My Lionel Mikado would drop its rods occasionally but otherwise I had pretty good luck with postwar. I had a lot of "adjustment" problems with power pickup rollers/shoes and repeated coupler failure [and still do with the modern equipment].

The new Lionel stuff----I had "surge " problems with TMCC Mikados and Mountains, which Lionel fixed with new boards, and I had out-of-phase problems with early 180 watt PowerHouses [which I rewired internally myself].

The best quality Lionel product [or any O-gauge product] I have owned, with proven longterm trouble-free reliability, are three postwar 275 ZWs. I now have them on the test track and in standby status and I am just now getting around to installing new cords, some new binding posts and power pickup rollers and horn/whistle diodes on all three.
Good for another few decades of service [with appropriate fuse/breaker protection].

[Anonymous]

Yea but.... how about Lionel versus an F-18?

Let's see.... the Lionel needs less maintenance, cheaper to fly, and doesn't break when it hits the ground!.....

[Fred Bear]

If I could just find a cow catcher now for one of my 1666's. Jake

[Anonymous]

Lionel quality?  I have to put my 2 cents worth in. 

My TMCC control system: in command mode, move the throttle and engine would go to full speed, ignoring any more commands.  I only ran it in conventional.  Hit the red triangle button (power shutoff) and most times it would go to full throttle.  Occasionally trains would start up by themselves, at full throttle, with remote control just sitting there, me not touching it.  System replaced, in entirety, by Lionel (I did not use the replacement system, traded it for an old Lionel train set at my dealer).

My 1993 vintage CSX "dash-8" engine and my more recent CSX "dash-9" engine have the same problem.  In conventional mode they used to start in forward, the way they are supposed to.  But, for some reason, they both changed their startup mode.  The dash-9 now starts in neutral.  And, get this, the next direction is also a nuetral, before you work the throttle a third time and it moves in forward.   The horn works intermittantly, mostly not.   The older dash-8 likes to start up in nuetral, then go in reverse.  Sometimes, after nuetral it will go in forward. 

I have a Conrail SD-70.  It was a complete mess, brand new.  Did nothing right (conventional mode, the only way I can run trains).  The dealer put a new circuit board in it.  It still did not run right.  It would ignore the throttle, then take off fast.  Mostly, the sound did not come up (would make wierd "burp" noises or "click" noises).  The horn would sound when it wanted to, not when you hit the button.  And the couplers would open randomly.  It never made a lap on my layout.  Dealer did not want to replace board again, said I must have wrecked it.  I tore out the guts, made the engine into a dummy.

My NYC industrial engine with the snow blower:  It did nothing.  I took the body off, found the circuit board loose in the engine, not hooked up.  I hooked it up.  The belt drive for the snow blower was tangled into the circuit board, I re-threaded it onto its pulleys.  Now the engine runs okay.

I will never buy a command equipped Lionel engine again. (havent brought myself to buy any new Lionel engine in the last 2, almost 3 years now...)