TCA Eastern Division Lays Down The Law

[tsgtbob]

Ok, time for me to chime in here (And Bob, I will behave myself[:D])
The man in the Checkerboard Suit is Mr. TCA Lou Redman!
As for the nophotos rule, and the whole topic here, the rule is in place, it was enforced (hamhanded I agree) and the whole mess is over.
Now, as for the TCA being it's own worst enemy, that remains to be seen. The TCA is a small orginazation, compared to say the NMRA. There are IMO, too many factions at work here, the postwar guys are fighting the "new stuff" guys, and the pre-war guys. The TCA (and the Eastern Div.) need to look past the forces that are pulling this club apart, and do what is best for the membership, first, and the hobby second.
Here is a possable solution.
Get together the major players (clubs, NO MANUFACTURERS!!!) together for a summit meeting (TCA, NMRA, TTOS, LOTS, LCCA, NASG, Various SIGs and a moderator panel from, say Carstens, Kalmbach, OGRR, OST, Mainline etc..) and figure out what is best for the hobby as a WHOLE!
For that matter, lets bring in the full size RR clubs, such as the NRHS.
What need to be done is promote the railroad hobby in a positive light, and stop the bickering from with in!
(See Bob, I behaved myself!)

[Frank53]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

I would be more inclined to visit York if I could see some photos.

Dave:

I did not want you to miss out on the opportunity to get a full understanding of the York experience. So I dug out this photo for you:



At your first York, you have to wear the checkerboard suit. [:D]

[msacco]

Wow, so much energy put into a topic that really came out without everyone knowing the full deal. The two groups should have been allowed to work this out privately first.
Shame on the person who let this out without permission from the email author.
As said perfectly above. Just play with your trains and have fun. If you don't want to be a part of the TCA or see it as a "dinosaur" or whatever, don't join or let your current membership expire. It's really that simple.

Mike S.

[Anonymous]

Well I fully agree with the TCA's decision.

[Tom1947]

I belong to TCA Eastern Division the past 5 or so years TCA seems to be its own worst enemy. It has discourage at least 4 people from retaining membership that I am aware of. I am not sure what the rule of no pictures is all about. I understand the no cell phone rule they are annoying. Other organizations that I belong to encourage pictures. Some of the rules at York make little or no sense. I plan on remaining a member but the both the Larry and his son are not renewing there memberships. Both have been involved in trains since birth. They feel that TCA no longer offers them anything of value for their money.
The 3 off us have all purchased engines, cars, transformers, and a Noma station that were not as repsented or did not work. We discovered after we got them home.
I do think that TCA has some say as to what goes on at the York show becaue it is being sponsered by a division of theirs which should give them some input as to how the event is held.

[brianel027]

I wish no one ill, but the TCA, in its current form does little to foster and much to hinder the hobby that it created but is losing touch with.

Palallin has really summed it up in that one line.

As others have said, the TCA can do as it will and if you join, the rules are the rules. But the collector element of the hobby (ie: financial investment) has been going downhill for years, outside of prime condition unusual postwar/prewar pieces. It seems most train collectors today are also operators who do not fear running the trains they have just bought.

The hobby is changing and one could easily suppose the TCA needs to change too. The once recently crowded aisles at YORK will rapidly start being a lot less crowded in the next decade unless the rules change and start appealing the few younger train operators that are out there.

And it's not just the TCA... it's the hobby in general. Read the thread on attracting younger modelers on the OGR forum.... it's all been talked about before. The train companies are not advertising to reach young people, and have not done so for decades... Lionel isn't advertising anywhere right now.

The modelers, the operators, the club members and the even potentially the TCA can only do so much - and I believe many individuals and smaller clubs have done their part, which begs the question where are the efforts of the train companies? Answer: Scale product tooling, electronic system development and lawsuits - all for a product saturated and aging customer base.

No skin off my nose though. I hardly need the TCA in order to have fun with my trains or share them with others.

[beefmalone]

QUOTE: Originally posted by poppyl
[br[
In terms of what happened post-York, both sides share some blame -- the Eastern Division for the tone of its e-mail and the NCT's for allowing the e-mail to receive distribution outside of its key leaders. Either way -- through ignorance or willful conduct, both sides in this look bad at this point in my opinion.

Poppyl

I don't see what the NCTs have done wrong here. So what if one of their members published this letter to the public. If you don't want it publicized then don't put it in writing & for goodness' sake don't email it.

They don't even have proof that it was a NCT member that took or posted the pictures. Sounds like this guy jumped the gun & now he (along with the rest of the TCA) is paying the price for his hotheadedness.

I've also been hearing from certain people the old saw "if you don't like it, stay home" and words to that effect. York may be run by the eastern division, but it's the PEOPLE that attend which make York what it is. Without the PEOPLE then what do they have??? SQUAT. They should be a little more attentive to what the PEOPLE want or one day NOBODY will show up.

And for those who whine about people on cell phones making too much racket I say Get Over It. What's next? No conversations period? Whispering only? What's the difference between someone talking on a cell phone and two people talking? NONE.

[okiechoochoo]

I agree that in 10 years the influence of the TCA will be almost nothing. If the manufacturers were to put on their own show and invite dealers at York, the show would go on but the TCA would fade away. Most members belong simply to go to York and if you just opened it to the public that would solve the need for registration except for dealers. The TCA is a dinosour beyond it's time

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dr. John

As an outsider, would someone explain to me why I should want to pay money to be a part of this organization?

Not sure I could give you a good reason to join today. As recently as Saturday I think I could have provided a decent amount of justification, but that was before the clouds rolled in.

[poppyl]

I agree with T. Rex -- everyone should take a deep breath and calm down. Many suppositions are flying around the web without the benefit of factual knowledge of the events that actually took place. This may be making it more difficult for cooler heads on both sides to work this out.

In terms of what happened post-York, both sides share some blame -- the Eastern Division for the tone of its e-mail and the NCT's for allowing the e-mail to receive distribution outside of its key leaders. Either way -- through ignorance or willful conduct, both sides in this look bad at this point in my opinion.

As I said before, it's sad and disappointing to see these two groups dragging each other through the mud.

Poppyl

[SPFan]

I attended this year for the first time as a guest. If you have any interest in 3 rail trains at all you should make at least one visit to York. Quite simply there is nothing that compares to it. I am not a member of either the TCA or NCT and while I think the no photo rule is a little odd as it applies to this case it would not be a reason to not attend in the future. This should not be an excuse not to go. In fact none of the insider political wrangling should prevent you attending. Its your loss if you miss it.

Pete

[ChiefEagles]

Time for some changes in Eastern Division. I am a member but do not want to get into why I'm unhappy with them.

[FJ and G]

I would be more inclined to visit York if I could see some photos. Perhaps this would stanch declining membership and revitalize the organization if folks could see what they're missing?

With what occurred up there, I now have no desire to attend York, nor to become an Eastern member.

[Poppa_Zit]

Bob --

Thanks for letting us vent.

My intention was not to rip on the TCA -- far from it. Rather, I tried to frame it as constructive criticism by including suggestions. While I realize TCA is not a democracy, I still feel after all these years of paying dues I'm entitled to an opinion. I am not eager to see the demise of the TCA -- but with all the symptoms we're seeing, it is 'way past time the TCA realizes it needs to reinvent itself. They're still trying to be a steam-powered organization in the diesel age.

How I feel on this subject is born from frustration, not anger.

[Dr. John]

As an outsider, would someone explain to me why I should want to pay money to be a part of this organization? All the threads related to this incident on this and other forums make me question the purpose of the TCA Eastern Division. Is it to promote the hobby? Is it some sort of insider's club? (I see you have to have the endorsement of two TCA members to join). Is it for the privelege of attending York twice each year?

Whatever the rules state, and regardless of who is in the right or wrong, it has certainly left me with a very negative impression.

[Bob Keller]

Very interesting observation.

[palallin]

You're quite right, Bob: I don't have any input, though I've offered it before directly to the TCA through the organ of their own TTML mailing list. The oreason I offered it was a request for reasons why someone might NOT want to join the TCA (as their membership problems were beginning to show on their radar). So I offered my reasons. I was told at that time that I had no say and that my reasons were uninteresting to them. That reply simply summed up my reasons, just as this nonsense with the Trackers does.

I wish no one ill, but the TCA, in its current form does little to foster and much to hinder the hobby that it created but is losing touch with. And, as others have noted, the distinction between the national organization and the Easteren Division is the distinction between the tail and the dog. One wonders, however, which one is doing the wagging.

[Anonymous]

I guess "what happens in York, stays in York" Easter

[Bob Keller]

Guys, keep in mind that York is not organized and run by the TCA, but by the Eastern Division. Fussing at the national organization is pointless, and unless you're in the Eastern Division, you really don't have any input.

[palallin]

I'm not calling for tearing the TCA down: changed market and hobby circumstances and their own policies are doing that. I don't think anything will replace it as no organization is needed twith the breadth, scope, and (most importantly) control that the TCA has attempted.

[trigtrax]

Okay.. It's time to call for some restraint.. on both sides.. Time to look beyond this squabble.. Folks are calling for tearing down the TCA.. But what will replace it? Now is not the time to be pushing a wedge into this wound.

[palallin]

The TCA will be either a dead organization of a very different organization in ten years or so. The world has passed them by. They are no longer capable of controlling access to information about and access to trading insider deals on toy trains. The internet, the diversification of the hobby, and even Kalmbach and CTT itself have brought about the end, I'm delighted to say. One need no longer belong to the secret club and finance its machinations in order to learn about the trains or get permission to trade in them.

Once upon a time, the organization was both necessary and useful. The Toy Train Mueusm and the Library are the legacy of that great effort. But the toy train world has outgrown its self-appointed guardian, and so the organization has little to offer and less each passing year. As its aging membership dies off, it, too, will die off. The alternative is to open itself up to match the current nature of the train enthusiast and the much changed marketplace.

[Buckeye Riveter]

It is hard for me to imagine that one person is allowed by the constitution and/or by-laws of an established organization to compose and send such a scathing notification without the majority of the officers and directors of the TCA Eastern Division being in agreement.

Recently, I had the privilege(?) of voting on a disciplinary action within a voluntary organization. All of the officers and directors actively participated before the letter of reprimand was delivered. and even then it was delivered in person by two of the officers.

If I were an officer or director of the TCA Eastern Division, I certainly would be very upset if this notification was sent out without my input and participation in a meaningful discussion of the facts. More importantly, the president of the TCA Eastern Division should at a minimum have been in personal contact with the president of the allegedly offending organization before any type of reprimand. [2c]

[beefmalone]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NeilBesougloff

I know Bill Spanarelli personally. He takes his job very seriously.

Neil Besougloff

A little too seriously, apparently.

[Anonymous]

Hey guys,

Debate the issue all you want, but please don't start calling people names.

I know Bill Spanarelli personally. He is a good guy and his job at York for many years has been to enforce the rules others have created. He takes his job very seriously.

In past years I have spoken to a few of the York meet officers both seriously and in jest over the photo rule, and from those conversations I suspect there is more to this particular incident than we know.

If you're fired up about this, and you are a TCA member, write a letter to your division or to the national office. While the Eastern Division runs the York meet, it, like all other divisions, must abide by the national by-laws, which, for better or worse, don't say much about meets.

Neil Besougloff
editor

P.S. Mitch, nice photo!

[dwiemer]

Ok, so I have been toying with the idea of trying to become a member of the TCA. I enjoy the hobby and would like to support it in a meaningful way. Then I read the letter from this TCA guy and I have to ask, what is the deal? So, can anyone tell me what would be the benefit of joining such a group, especially if I may never make it to York?
Dennis

[3railguy]

The email ends like this:

QUOTE: It really saddens me that a group that I belong to, and have supported to have the honor to be the first group to display at York, would deliberately break the rules and break my trust. This issue will be dealt with very severely.
Sadly and annoyed,
Bill Spanarelli

I agree with the camera rule but only a completely ignorant moron would attack an otherwise hard working, innocent group in this manner.

[artyoung]

If I may be so bold as to point something out (that may allow Eastern Division to back down with a minimum of embarassment) : the rules state that there will be no 'phones, cameras, etc. in the "TRADING HALLS". The Black Hall was being used as a display, with NO buying or selling going on that I could see. Sort of the same arrangement that the WB&A enjoys with their "kid's corner" (and there's some photos taken there with no one throwing a fit). That said, Eastern should withdraw their letter, and the Trackers should tell Eastern to go p*** up a rope. Enough games, we get entirely too much of that crap with the manufacturers. Give it a rest.

[Anonymous]

Don't know how many members they might lose, but the Eastern Div. has singlehandedly made it a whole lot more difficult to recruit any new members from the ranks of hobbyists who participate on the various on-line forums, or who learn about this matter from those who do.

I imagine most would-be members would simply ask themselves "who needs this kind of crap from a social group?" and simply save their money to buy more train stuff so they can enjoy the hobby in the way it is meant to be enjoyed.

The officers of the TCA Eastern Division--and I assume that includes all of them--have created a public relations nightmare for themselves that will haunt them, and the TCA, for a long time to come.

[Roger Bielen]

I wonder how many members TCA will loose over this.