American Flyer

[dbaker48]

Are there very many Flyer fans on this forum?

[Tom1947]

Yes, since 1955 when I received my first set for Christmas. The set contained an 307 Atlantic along with 3 or 4 cars and a cabose. I have been collecting ever since. Tom

[Anonymous]

I have some postwar, link coupler stuff, with the "tinplate looking" trucks. These are the ones I like best. Will be starting a very small Flyer layout soon so I can run a set. Will be using the S-Helper track with the ballest. My favorite is the K-4 with the green NH passenger cars. Am using a old AF Oil Drum Loader and Water Tank on my "O" layout. Also have the old Talking Station, but don't want to wear the record out. Joe

[pbjwilson]

Pre-war Flyer collector here -

[Sturgeon-Phish]

Postwar steamers and accessories is my thing. Work in progress is a 5x9 with several accesories and three operating lines.

[Anonymous]

I have a lot of American Flyer S gauge trains and accessories that I have combined with my O gauge trains on my layout. I also have a small amount of prewar Flyer.

[Poppa_Zit]

I have post-war Flyer that I run on a layout along with S-Helper Service and American Models stuff. And I have a few K-Line cars that I put behind an old loco when kids come over. Also have some pre-war stuff -- mainly streamlined sets and streamlined locomotives.

[hugoroundhouse]

American Flyer guy since '55!! I've just gotten back into the hobby after retirement. Nothing beats the fun of getting my hands on an old abused Flyer and making it sing again. (or should I say, "chug" again.
Jim E.

[mersenne6]

Pre-war Flyer here too.

[overall]

I have a few flyer pieces also including one very nice post war hudson.

George

[Dr. John]

I have a number of pieces of AF rolling stock and a box full of track and switches. No AF engines, but I do have an American Models Geep, a SHS SW-1 and SW-7.

[marxalot]

I'm in the process of getting an old American Flyer 293 steamer running again for a guy at work. This unit is pretty neat but I have a question. I do not have an A-F power supply so I cannot check for proper operation of the relay/E unit(?) in the tender. On the bottom of the tender there is a lever which moves contacts on what I'll call a drum switch. In one postion the engine goes forward. In the next position the relay unit just hums away. In the 3rd postition the engine runs backwards. Is there suppose to be somthing happening in that middle position? Like the e-unit selects forward or reverse when getting some signal from a power supply? I love the chuff unit on this thing, it sounds great and does a nice job of pushing smoke. I was impressed that the smoke unit just started up as soon as a little liquid was put in and it was run a bit. Nice train! Thanks for your time.

Jim

[Sturgeon-Phish]

The E unit is a four position forward neutral reverse neutral. As power is applied the coil actuates pushing a lever which rotates a pawl on the drum which applies current from the tender wheels to a specific set of fingers. The lever under the tender locks the e unit into a position so when you stop the loco, to go in the original direction, you don't have to cycle through the forward neutral reverse neutral sequence. It will hum if it's stuck in nuetral, either buy the lever or just stuck ( a common problem). The 293 is a great engine. Usually cleaning and relube is all they need to run like new.

[lionelsoni]

You don't need any special transformer. It sounds like the e-unit is working properly. The neutral position that alternates with forward and backward is so that the train can stand still with the lights and smoke on. The hum in neutral is probably normal. About the only functional difference between Lionel and American Flyer e-units is that Lionel e-units are shut off by disconnecting the coil, while the American Flyer ones I have seen have a cam that mechanically forces the armature into the operated position.

I'm not sure it is proper to call it an "e-unit" for American Flyer. I believe that the term arose from the "E" suffix that Lionel used for its locomotives when they were making them both with and without electrical reversing before the war.

[Sturgeon-Phish]

The 293 does not smoke in neutral, the drive piston comes off the drive gear.

[marxalot]

Thanks for info. on the forward neutral reverse neutral switch on the 293. [^] I cleaned that baby up which took awhile, removed old grease, and then pretty much left it unlubricated as it was working so well.... pretty much dry.....it looked to me like any grease was just increasing the chance that the operating arm was going to get gummed up someday...... now on to a 300 which needs a set of front trucks which I can not locate...everyone has them on back order and the fellow I talked with didn't seem to have much hope the order would be filled! At least he up front about it though!


Jim

[hugoroundhouse]

Glad to see another Flyer fan posting .

You might try locating a for-parts-only 300 Atlantic on e-bay for the front pilot truck assembly. Sometimes they are cheaper than buying new repro parts. Just make sure the part you need is on the loco you bid on! [:)]

I've done this on a couple 302AC units and found that what the seller listed as "For Parts" ended up just needing a wire re-soldered or a tune-up. No way would I part them out.

To me, the challenge of taking a cast-off and making it run like new is a big part of the fun in this hobby. I'm not into scale modelling, but really enjoy the fix-up and resoration process.

Good Luck! [8D]

Jim E.

[Sturgeon-Phish]

The American Flyer handbook says to grease the drive gear under the gear plate and oil the wheel bearing surfaces. A little goes a long way. Work the grease in rather than applying to the gear surface. Lay the loco on it's side, move each axel up and add a little oil on the axel in the space between the frame and wheel and let the oil run into the frame. Do a side let it sit for awhile and repeat the other side. Also a little oil at the oil wick.
An excellent means of monitoring performance is watch the motor amps. A 293 at 12 volts should draw 1.7 amps. Also, don't run for long without adding smoke fluid or you run the risk of burning out the smoke wick. The 300 will have the reversing unit in the cab.
Sheer joy to bring an old loco back!!
Jim

[tdetmer]

I have a lot of AF stuff along with SHS and Americn Models and a little K Line as well. I like my AF and my 302 Atlantic steam engine (I have several) was my first and it's still my favorite. It's got the best chuff and smoke unit I've seen. I have to admit I have a 293 also and it is good too. I enjoyed reading the comments of those above about the 293. Long live AF!!

Tom [:D]

[Poppa_Zit]

A good supplier for American Flyer parts is Doug Peck at Portlines Hobbies. Honest, dependable and a great resource. His web site is http://www.portlines.com. Look in the AF online parts catalog for what you need. He sells pilot trucks for 300s and 302s for $8.50, I think, and they're not repros -- I think they're Gilbert originals.

[marxalot]

Thanks for the info on the parts as I might need more than I first thought! Please read this and see if you can direct me. Okay, I took the 300 apart. The unit would not run at all. When I looked into the gearbox I found where all the old grease had dried up and turned into something like parafin! So I spent about an hour digging this stuff out. I then applied a little oil and then power and got the unit to turn, roughly but it turned. Both in forward and reverse. Good I thought, more cleaning and we should be getting better. I spent more time cleaning the direction relay, gears, etc. Okay I apply power and all I get is the direction relay to operate, the motor will not turn. Well I start looking around and cannot find anything obvious that would be preventing the unit from running. I checked all wiring to see if something has come loose, wiggled the wires when powered up to see if any connection was poor but all seemed fine. I put an ohmeter across the coil on top of the frame (field??) and have continuity. I just don't know what happened here. There was a lot of sparking at the brushes when the unit was operating and it ran a lot slower in reverse but I'm stumped at the moment......

Any help for a guy stepping into the repair AF world be appreciated!

Thanks,


Jim

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marxalot

Thanks for the info on the parts as I might need more than I first thought! Please read this and see if you can direct me. Okay, I took the 300 apart. The unit would not run at all. When I looked into the gearbox I found where all the old grease had dried up and turned into something like parafin! So I spent about an hour digging this stuff out. I then applied a little oil and then power and got the unit to turn, roughly but it turned. Both in forward and reverse. Good I thought, more cleaning and we should be getting better. I spent more time cleaning the direction relay, gears, etc. Okay I apply power and all I get is the direction relay to operate, the motor will not turn. Well I start looking around and cannot find anything obvious that would be preventing the unit from running. I checked all wiring to see if something has come loose, wiggled the wires when powered up to see if any connection was poor but all seemed fine. I put an ohmeter across the coil on top of the frame (field??) and have continuity. I just don't know what happened here. There was a lot of sparking at the brushes when the unit was operating and it ran a lot slower in reverse but I'm stumped at the moment...

Try these: Use white lithium grease instead of oil on main gear. Turn chassis upside down and inspect wheel areas for dirt, dust, cat hair, etc. Then put a few drops of oil on the axels of the drivers -- between the back of the wheel and the chassis and rotate side to side every 15 minutes for an hour to distribute oil over entire axel inside chassis. Turn motor -- do not force -- by slowly turning armature with finger to see if anything is binding. Check brushes to make sure they're making good contact -- should be flat on motor side. Brush springs might be bad (weak), too. Attach two leads from transformer direct to brush holders and see if motor will turn. Check main rods to make sure they're not binding. Most locomotives will NOT operate if upside down because the flap in the reverse unit is in the wrong position due to gravity. Check the commutator on the armature for continuity. See if there's dirt in the spaces between the commutator windings.

[hugoroundhouse]

You're on the right track by cleaning out everything and getting a fresh start and you've gotten good advice so far. One thing I've found helpful is using the small pen-like applicator of WD-40. (About $2.50) The container looks like a magic marker and has a similar tip on it. The solvent is released when you push down on it.

I've found that some of the old locos are so gummed up that even the lightest oil won't penetrate it, you've got to use some kind of solvent to loosen thigs up. Once you get things operating smoothly and freely again, then you can wipe off the solvent and apply a drop or two of oil.

If you haven't disconnected the drive rod ( the larger drive rod) you can do so by removing the one larger, outside hex screw and letting the rod dangle by the other screw. This will allow you to make sure the front wheels can turn freely. They should - they are not your drive wheels. Only the rear wheels are in the drive train. This is a good time to also clean the rods and metal or fiber spacers in the drive rod system. Don't lose those spacers, they're critical.

Good luck! The old AF Atlantic 300-series locos are a tough, reliable breed. I tend to stick to the 302AC's, but mainly for sentimental reasons - that was my first engine back in 1955. Dad got us a used 302AC and one passenger car. We thought we had the world by the tail!! [:D]

Jim E.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: One thing I've found helpful is using the small pen-like applicator of WD-40. (About $2.50)

If you use WD-40, be advised it may damage some paint and older plastic surfaces. It also is a solvent, which you may not want in some applications.

Go to a hobby shop and buy some LaBelle lubricants. Of these, Nos. 102, 106, 107 and 108 are all safe for use around plastics. Do not use Nos. 101 and 104 on or near plastic parts. The LaBelle oils come in a bottle with a needle-like applicator, to get into tight spaces. You also want to put a drop or two of light oil on the trucks of all cars, at the tips of the axels. This should be done as a matter of preventive maintenance every two hours of running time and any time the cars have sat still for over two months. Better use a drop of oil once in awhile than having to buy more replacement parts someday.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Also have the old Talking Station, but don't want to wear the record out. Joe

Good news. Various repro parts vendors are now selling brand new replacement records for the Talking Stations -- in the $14 range, I think. You can also buy replacement needles and the sound reproducers, too.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: The 293 does not smoke in neutral, the drive piston comes off the drive gear.

If the smoke unit is "fifth wire" connected, which some are -- either from the factory or in the aftermarket -- there still would be power to the nichrome wire on the wick in the smoke unit (and headlamp) in neutral. So there would be "some" smoke -- however, the smoke effect would be minimal, because the driver wheels need to be in motion to operate the "choo-choo" or chug sound piston, which also forces staccato jets of air into the smoke unit to force smoke out of the stack.

[Anonymous]

Good Lord do I remember American Flyer. In my childhood, the Flyer was the train to have. They had 2 rails, Just like the real ones. I'm in HO now many year later but still have the fond memories of the beginning for me. I still have an old SPEEK TO RUN controller I used on my layout. Tell the loco to start and it would move forward, say stop and it would stop. The technology at the time was mind boggling. That was 1950. Now I have DCC, who knew?

[Sturgeon-Phish]

The help is on track. Check brush length and spring length. Brushes at least 3/16"; springs 3/4" max. Commutator should be bright and shiney with out heavy scratches. They can be cleaned up with very fine emory cloth and the ensure the segments are clean. If an excessive amount of oil was applied to the oil wick that will prevent the motor from operating properly. If the commutator end is oily clean it and clean the bru***ubes as well. Also check the motor end bushing for proper seating. It has orientation grooves that if not inserted correctly will raise the bearing surface and cause a problem.
Doug at Port Lines is great to do business with.
Let us know how the 300 comes along.
Jim

[Poppa_Zit]

Not that there's anything wrong with Classic Toy Trains forums, but may I take the liberty to direct all you Flyer junkies to another excellent BB with over 1200 S gauge members, with the majority heavy in high rail and/or AC Gilbert post-war American Flyer :

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/

[tdetmer]

Thanks for the link to the S Gauge site. [^] Tom