American Flyer

[steamerlynn]

I have my original Royal Blue set from 1947. The locomotive is being restored. Have a room with S-Helper track,and a mix of S-Helper and American Models products. I love my Gilbert K-5 and 302 Atlantic,as they run and look great! Also have a barrel loader. Lynn

[CSXect]

[8D][8D][8D] If you like flyer and S scale check out the following


http://www.s-trains.com

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/groupee/forums

for last site scroll down to S scale forum. [8D][8D][8D]

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marxalot

Thanks for the direction to Portlines. I received the upper and lower finger assembly for the reversing relay, installed them, and the old AF 300 is running fine! If I understood the parts listing, this unit was made in 1946 as it has the brush assembly matching that year. So this unit is 60 years old! With its new contact fingers, brushes, a good cleaning and lube I'd say it is ready for another 60!

It looks a little rough but the owner justed wanted it operating again. I'm glad to have helped him...............with your help.

Thanks again.

Jim

Many Flyer steamers have their manufacturing month and year stamped in white paint inside the boiler unit, usually on the underside of the cab roof. You can also tell what year a 300 is by the style of crosshead gear and the arrangement of screw holes cast into the boiler. You gotta give old AC Gilbert credit -- his trains were designed well and have lasted all these years, even though they were only toys.

[marxalot]

Thanks for the direction to Portlines. I received the upper and lower finger assembly for the reversing relay, installed them, and the old AF 300 is running fine! If I understood the parts listing, this unit was made in 1946 as it has the brush assembly matching that year. So this unit is 60 years old! With its new contact fingers, brushes, a good cleaning and lube I'd say it is ready for another 60!

It looks a little rough but the owner justed wanted it operating again. I'm glad to have helped him...............with your help.

Thanks again.

Jim

[tomg54]

Thanks will give them a try. tom

[tomg54]

QUOTE: Originally posted by puttlagger

Try Fred Jester at Fred's Train Parts. His email is:

[e-mail]

Also, Vince Amato at Hobby Surplus Sales:

http://www.hobbysurplus.com/trainrepairparts.asp

Good luck.

[Sturgeon-Phish]

The March CTT has a GREAT article on maintenance for a 4-8-4, cleaning lubing and minor repair. Page 44.

[Poppa_Zit]

Try Fred Jester at Fred's Train Parts. His email is:

[e-mail]

Also, Vince Amato at Hobby Surplus Sales:

http://www.hobbysurplus.com/trainrepairparts.asp

Good luck.

[tomg54]

does any one know who sells a steam chest for a gilbert 0-6-0 ? I tried port lines and they are sold out. thanks tom

[hugoroundhouse]

When you look at the contact fingers in the tender, make sure they are perpindicular ("straight") on the drum. Even if they are cocked to the side just a teeny bit, they will not make proper contact with the copper on the drum.

You do want to be careful with the WD-40 as another respondent advised, but there are times when the only thing that will cut that dried up grease is some kind of solvent. Just make sure to wipe everything down after cleaning it and then re-lube.

I noticed the reference about the Talking Station record. I recently got one for $9.95 along with the plate and needles from Triple S Trains.
They are also good to deal with for parts, as is the Gilbert Guru Co.


Triple S --- www.ssstrains.com
Gilbert Guru --- gurubrands.com


Have fun!
Jim E. [8D]

[marxalot]

Wow! I find myself responding to ME! Scary........ but trains will do that. Okay I sat down and drew a Thevin's Equivalent circuit and performed Kirchoff's voltage drops to locate the problem....... yeah right! Well I measured a bunch on continuities and then started applying that good 15 volts from the Marx supply. Finally the 300 took off in reverse.. and almost scared the baloney out of me! I let it run then it stopped.... I kept slapping the voltage to the unit and it started again, then stopped. Finally I poked around on the fingers on that reversing switch and we were off to the races! In forward...... So I need to get those finger replacements I've seen at some A-F parts site. Any recommendations for the one with the fastest delivery! Thanks for hanging in there with me!


Jim

[marxalot]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sturgeon-Phish

The help is on track. Check brush length and spring length. Brushes at least 3/16"; springs 3/4" max. Commutator should be bright and shiney with out heavy scratches. They can be cleaned up with very fine emory cloth and the ensure the segments are clean. If an excessive amount of oil was applied to the oil wick that will prevent the motor from operating properly. If the commutator end is oily clean it and clean the bru***ubes as well. Also check the motor end bushing for proper seating. It has orientation grooves that if not inserted correctly will raise the bearing surface and cause a problem.
Doug at Port Lines is great to do business with.
Let us know how the 300 comes along.
Jim

Okay, I had disassembled the siderods so we're only dealing with drivers and motor. I carefully lubed the gear box and checked for free rotation, had it. I then removed the brushes. They were 1/4" and oily. I cleaned them and the holders. I
reinstalled them and then the motor would bind when rotated in one direction indicating to me I had put a brush back differently from what it was. But then I said, hey let's take this armature out and look at it. I did and of course found the worm gear at the end of the shaft just plugged up with dried grease. I cleaned it and wiped off the commutator. It is scratched but hey, it was scratched and running before, that is probably why all the sparking. I reassembled everything putting a brush back wrong again but I could tell by the binding which one it was and so pulled back the spring and rotated it 180 degrees... Great, free rotation of the armature in either direction. But when applying 15 volts ( I got the Simpson out and checked the old Marx power supply) the armature just rotates until the brushes are across the gap between the commutator plates. That's it. I can assist in rotating etc. but nothing really happens except for the armature getting into that position. What is a little wierd is that I can only get this small rotation when applying voltage right to the brushes. When I connect to the normal input terminals and bring the reverse unit into play, all I get is the reverse unit working. nothing happens at the motor..........

I think I've eliminated rotational binding as a problem; the brushes and commutator while not great do not seems to be that bad. I have pressed in on the brush springs too and that didn't make any difference...... When connecting directly at the brushes could I be backfeeding into a short elsewhere that is drawing power?? Or whatever else anyone has to offer.... I'm ready to try about anything!

Thanks for your time...................


Jim

[tdetmer]

Thanks for the link to the S Gauge site. [^] Tom

[Poppa_Zit]

Not that there's anything wrong with Classic Toy Trains forums, but may I take the liberty to direct all you Flyer junkies to another excellent BB with over 1200 S gauge members, with the majority heavy in high rail and/or AC Gilbert post-war American Flyer :

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/

[Sturgeon-Phish]

The help is on track. Check brush length and spring length. Brushes at least 3/16"; springs 3/4" max. Commutator should be bright and shiney with out heavy scratches. They can be cleaned up with very fine emory cloth and the ensure the segments are clean. If an excessive amount of oil was applied to the oil wick that will prevent the motor from operating properly. If the commutator end is oily clean it and clean the bru***ubes as well. Also check the motor end bushing for proper seating. It has orientation grooves that if not inserted correctly will raise the bearing surface and cause a problem.
Doug at Port Lines is great to do business with.
Let us know how the 300 comes along.
Jim

[Anonymous]

Good Lord do I remember American Flyer. In my childhood, the Flyer was the train to have. They had 2 rails, Just like the real ones. I'm in HO now many year later but still have the fond memories of the beginning for me. I still have an old SPEEK TO RUN controller I used on my layout. Tell the loco to start and it would move forward, say stop and it would stop. The technology at the time was mind boggling. That was 1950. Now I have DCC, who knew?

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: The 293 does not smoke in neutral, the drive piston comes off the drive gear.

If the smoke unit is "fifth wire" connected, which some are -- either from the factory or in the aftermarket -- there still would be power to the nichrome wire on the wick in the smoke unit (and headlamp) in neutral. So there would be "some" smoke -- however, the smoke effect would be minimal, because the driver wheels need to be in motion to operate the "choo-choo" or chug sound piston, which also forces staccato jets of air into the smoke unit to force smoke out of the stack.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Also have the old Talking Station, but don't want to wear the record out. Joe

Good news. Various repro parts vendors are now selling brand new replacement records for the Talking Stations -- in the $14 range, I think. You can also buy replacement needles and the sound reproducers, too.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: One thing I've found helpful is using the small pen-like applicator of WD-40. (About $2.50)

If you use WD-40, be advised it may damage some paint and older plastic surfaces. It also is a solvent, which you may not want in some applications.

Go to a hobby shop and buy some LaBelle lubricants. Of these, Nos. 102, 106, 107 and 108 are all safe for use around plastics. Do not use Nos. 101 and 104 on or near plastic parts. The LaBelle oils come in a bottle with a needle-like applicator, to get into tight spaces. You also want to put a drop or two of light oil on the trucks of all cars, at the tips of the axels. This should be done as a matter of preventive maintenance every two hours of running time and any time the cars have sat still for over two months. Better use a drop of oil once in awhile than having to buy more replacement parts someday.

[hugoroundhouse]

You're on the right track by cleaning out everything and getting a fresh start and you've gotten good advice so far. One thing I've found helpful is using the small pen-like applicator of WD-40. (About $2.50) The container looks like a magic marker and has a similar tip on it. The solvent is released when you push down on it.

I've found that some of the old locos are so gummed up that even the lightest oil won't penetrate it, you've got to use some kind of solvent to loosen thigs up. Once you get things operating smoothly and freely again, then you can wipe off the solvent and apply a drop or two of oil.

If you haven't disconnected the drive rod ( the larger drive rod) you can do so by removing the one larger, outside hex screw and letting the rod dangle by the other screw. This will allow you to make sure the front wheels can turn freely. They should - they are not your drive wheels. Only the rear wheels are in the drive train. This is a good time to also clean the rods and metal or fiber spacers in the drive rod system. Don't lose those spacers, they're critical.

Good luck! The old AF Atlantic 300-series locos are a tough, reliable breed. I tend to stick to the 302AC's, but mainly for sentimental reasons - that was my first engine back in 1955. Dad got us a used 302AC and one passenger car. We thought we had the world by the tail!! [:D]

Jim E.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marxalot

Thanks for the info on the parts as I might need more than I first thought! Please read this and see if you can direct me. Okay, I took the 300 apart. The unit would not run at all. When I looked into the gearbox I found where all the old grease had dried up and turned into something like parafin! So I spent about an hour digging this stuff out. I then applied a little oil and then power and got the unit to turn, roughly but it turned. Both in forward and reverse. Good I thought, more cleaning and we should be getting better. I spent more time cleaning the direction relay, gears, etc. Okay I apply power and all I get is the direction relay to operate, the motor will not turn. Well I start looking around and cannot find anything obvious that would be preventing the unit from running. I checked all wiring to see if something has come loose, wiggled the wires when powered up to see if any connection was poor but all seemed fine. I put an ohmeter across the coil on top of the frame (field??) and have continuity. I just don't know what happened here. There was a lot of sparking at the brushes when the unit was operating and it ran a lot slower in reverse but I'm stumped at the moment...

Try these: Use white lithium grease instead of oil on main gear. Turn chassis upside down and inspect wheel areas for dirt, dust, cat hair, etc. Then put a few drops of oil on the axels of the drivers -- between the back of the wheel and the chassis and rotate side to side every 15 minutes for an hour to distribute oil over entire axel inside chassis. Turn motor -- do not force -- by slowly turning armature with finger to see if anything is binding. Check brushes to make sure they're making good contact -- should be flat on motor side. Brush springs might be bad (weak), too. Attach two leads from transformer direct to brush holders and see if motor will turn. Check main rods to make sure they're not binding. Most locomotives will NOT operate if upside down because the flap in the reverse unit is in the wrong position due to gravity. Check the commutator on the armature for continuity. See if there's dirt in the spaces between the commutator windings.

[marxalot]

Thanks for the info on the parts as I might need more than I first thought! Please read this and see if you can direct me. Okay, I took the 300 apart. The unit would not run at all. When I looked into the gearbox I found where all the old grease had dried up and turned into something like parafin! So I spent about an hour digging this stuff out. I then applied a little oil and then power and got the unit to turn, roughly but it turned. Both in forward and reverse. Good I thought, more cleaning and we should be getting better. I spent more time cleaning the direction relay, gears, etc. Okay I apply power and all I get is the direction relay to operate, the motor will not turn. Well I start looking around and cannot find anything obvious that would be preventing the unit from running. I checked all wiring to see if something has come loose, wiggled the wires when powered up to see if any connection was poor but all seemed fine. I put an ohmeter across the coil on top of the frame (field??) and have continuity. I just don't know what happened here. There was a lot of sparking at the brushes when the unit was operating and it ran a lot slower in reverse but I'm stumped at the moment......

Any help for a guy stepping into the repair AF world be appreciated!

Thanks,


Jim

[Poppa_Zit]

A good supplier for American Flyer parts is Doug Peck at Portlines Hobbies. Honest, dependable and a great resource. His web site is http://www.portlines.com. Look in the AF online parts catalog for what you need. He sells pilot trucks for 300s and 302s for $8.50, I think, and they're not repros -- I think they're Gilbert originals.

[tdetmer]

I have a lot of AF stuff along with SHS and Americn Models and a little K Line as well. I like my AF and my 302 Atlantic steam engine (I have several) was my first and it's still my favorite. It's got the best chuff and smoke unit I've seen. I have to admit I have a 293 also and it is good too. I enjoyed reading the comments of those above about the 293. Long live AF!!

Tom [:D]

[Sturgeon-Phish]

The American Flyer handbook says to grease the drive gear under the gear plate and oil the wheel bearing surfaces. A little goes a long way. Work the grease in rather than applying to the gear surface. Lay the loco on it's side, move each axel up and add a little oil on the axel in the space between the frame and wheel and let the oil run into the frame. Do a side let it sit for awhile and repeat the other side. Also a little oil at the oil wick.
An excellent means of monitoring performance is watch the motor amps. A 293 at 12 volts should draw 1.7 amps. Also, don't run for long without adding smoke fluid or you run the risk of burning out the smoke wick. The 300 will have the reversing unit in the cab.
Sheer joy to bring an old loco back!!
Jim

[hugoroundhouse]

Glad to see another Flyer fan posting .

You might try locating a for-parts-only 300 Atlantic on e-bay for the front pilot truck assembly. Sometimes they are cheaper than buying new repro parts. Just make sure the part you need is on the loco you bid on! [:)]

I've done this on a couple 302AC units and found that what the seller listed as "For Parts" ended up just needing a wire re-soldered or a tune-up. No way would I part them out.

To me, the challenge of taking a cast-off and making it run like new is a big part of the fun in this hobby. I'm not into scale modelling, but really enjoy the fix-up and resoration process.

Good Luck! [8D]

Jim E.

[marxalot]

Thanks for info. on the forward neutral reverse neutral switch on the 293. [^] I cleaned that baby up which took awhile, removed old grease, and then pretty much left it unlubricated as it was working so well.... pretty much dry.....it looked to me like any grease was just increasing the chance that the operating arm was going to get gummed up someday...... now on to a 300 which needs a set of front trucks which I can not locate...everyone has them on back order and the fellow I talked with didn't seem to have much hope the order would be filled! At least he up front about it though!


Jim

[Sturgeon-Phish]

The 293 does not smoke in neutral, the drive piston comes off the drive gear.

[lionelsoni]

You don't need any special transformer. It sounds like the e-unit is working properly. The neutral position that alternates with forward and backward is so that the train can stand still with the lights and smoke on. The hum in neutral is probably normal. About the only functional difference between Lionel and American Flyer e-units is that Lionel e-units are shut off by disconnecting the coil, while the American Flyer ones I have seen have a cam that mechanically forces the armature into the operated position.

I'm not sure it is proper to call it an "e-unit" for American Flyer. I believe that the term arose from the "E" suffix that Lionel used for its locomotives when they were making them both with and without electrical reversing before the war.