High Price of trains hurting the hobby?

[Anonymous]

As a Lionel fan, there are certainly Lionel pieces (and boxed layouts) that are extravagant from not only current production, but from the pre & post war and modern era's.

On the other hand, one can build a nice layout buying reasonably priced pieces on EBay and elsewhere online, or at swap meets. On EBay you can purchase a lot of post war and modern era stuff. For example, a locomotive for less than $100, O gauge remote switches for 35 to $70 a pair, freight cars for as little as $35, passenger cars for less than $150, a classic ZW transformer for $200 to $275, and many Lionel accessories for $20 to $50. Much of this stuff comes in the original boxes but helps to be handy since most of it will require some cleaning and perhaps minor maintenance.

I find it's more fun this way, you do a little at a time and only for what you want and can afford. With EBay, you get to set your own price and the selection of Lionel (and other train) stuff on EBay should satisfy any train collector.

[Anonymous]

I truely feel this CAN BE an expensive hobby. After having trains in my younger years, then having them handed down to me, then growing up to understand the concept of money... I was fully aware that this wasnt going to be a cheap hobby. Does the price of trains hurt the hobby? I think it fills train makers pockets and could make the average buyers pockets pretty thin, but I dont see it hurting the hobby or industry any time soon.

There are plenty of cheaper trains out there for the ones that cant spend $1000++ on a set or a single train. Williams has very nice trains at a very nice price for what you get from them.

If you want a train that cost $1000++, you can always save your money and get it at a later date. Not everyone can afford to be an impulse buyer, and walk into a train store and leave with $3000 worth of train stuff. Im sure all the "top dogs manufacturers" know this, but if its quality you want, features you want, etc. Than you have to pay that price to have it. We pay for the time, effort, and effort they put into making these trains look as realistic as they can. If its a nice train, I am willing to pay that price.

Anyway, I just wanted to chime in a bit on my feelings toward the question at hand.

[jakeoregano]

My 2 cents...(and probably stating the obvious with way too many words)

Like a few have said here already, I think most hobbies (except maybe reading) are fairly expensive. I was lucky enough to inheirit several trains when I was younger and I still have them. I've been trying to add to my running collection over the last few years and I find that some of the venues for picking up pre and post war Lionel items (Ebay and even train shows) can be wildly expensive for desirable items. But, overall I think the amount of enjoyment I get out of the hobby exceeds the pain in my wallet.

Considering that my friends that play golf will think nothing of dropping $200 or more on one golf club, and that a round of golf routinely costs $75 (for a municipal course, forget a private club) and they spend 4 hours being angry cuz they can't hit that "blankety blank ball straight", I figured I got a good deal paying $250 for a decent running 2343 A B postwar diesel last year. I can spend those 4 hours building/planning or just running my trains and be happy.

I will say that I was really sticker shocked at what the new stuff costs. I can't see spending say $1500 on an engine (or should I say my wife can't see spending...).

If you are willing to put in the time to really look, and are patient and don't mind used stuff you can find some really nice bargains. For me that is part of the fun, trying to find particular items to add to my collection. Plus, with the old stuff, if something needs to be fixed, I might actually be able to do it myself in some cases.

[darianj]

I'm new to the hobby and was very surprised at how expensive some of the loco's and accessories cost. Example: Why does a piece of plastic with lights that happens to look like a 5 story building cost $75?

I'm trying to find used and 2nd had stuff.

[Anonymous]

Maybe the reason there arn't as many out there is because you have them all [:D]

[Anonymous]

When I posted this All I was stating is that there should be more modestly priced engines out there with out all the fancy lights and such.I think that there should be a few more basic engines out there at a reasonable price .If you want a high end engine then so be it.But for the many out there on a budget there should be a quality reasonable price engines to chose from.Far be it for me to *** considering this is one of my train rooms!!





If they where cheaper I could afford to by more!!
Thanks for your input[:)]

[okiechoochoo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LS1Heli

If people are complaining about the O gauge prices than I am sorry you are not in the correct hobby. You need to be taking up something else...like book reading or sewing.

Lionel Trains have ALWAYS been expensive. For exmaple: The Lionel 1952 2343 Santa Fe passenger set with O guage track sold for what $79.95. Adjusting the Consumer Price Index (used a calc from 2004) that EXACT same set would cost someone today $569.88. Then add a ZW transformer to that $29.95 and adjusting it would have costed $213.48 today.

So in reality okiechoochoo someone in 1950 would of had to produce an enormous amount of funds back in the day to have purchased this set. Of course these numbers are estimates but close.

My point was missed I guess. Dontrainman said Lionel was selling $300 engines in 1950. They were not, Did not even have one cataloged that cost that. Here by your own statement you said the 2343 set was right at $80. That is not $300 of 1950 dollars. It was a lot of money in those days, I had trains then, I know. But it was not $300.

[Anonymous]

i think what would be nice is a low end set ,or set ups ,for the family man .that doesnt play golf ,fly planes ,own horses,or go skiing.im such a person ,and maybe someday i can pour tons of money in it ,and buy a fancy engine .that doesnt mean i shouldnt be able to have fun now . i would trade some detail ,and realism ,for lower prices .its the same with cars .not every car is a cadilac,mercedes,porsche,or bmw .i would like to purchase the escort,cavalier,kia,neon .i understand the beauty of the high end ,but there should also be an affordable low end .

[andregg1]

Hi
you are rigth but in 1950 was made in usa, hi quality and the workes was expensive too.
so what do you think today about the price if the trains are mede in china when they pay cents per hour to the workers?
go to dvdrental and look for the movie "the corporation" after the movie think about the real price for the electric trains.
Sorry if I am not clear, rigth now I'm study english.
Andre.

QUOTE: Originally posted by LS1Heli

If people are complaining about the O gauge prices than I am sorry you are not in the correct hobby. You need to be taking up something else...like book reading or sewing.

Lionel Trains have ALWAYS been expensive. For exmaple: The Lionel 1952 2343 Santa Fe passenger set with O guage track sold for what $79.95. Adjusting the Consumer Price Index (used a calc from 2004) that EXACT same set would cost someone today $569.88. Then add a ZW transformer to that $29.95 and adjusting it would have costed $213.48 today.

So in reality okiechoochoo someone in 1950 would of had to produce an enormous amount of funds back in the day to have purchased this set. Of course these numbers are estimates but close.

[Warburton]

Well, to throw my 2 cents in... I think the major manufacturers make a reasonable assortment of relativelay lower priced items each year. And starter sets are available for less than $130 when discounted. Now is a particularly good time to pick up closeout prices on 2005 sets -- keep an eye on the ads in CTT this month and next. You can always put it away til next Christmas if you have to. Plus, Lionel always puts several "less than $200" engines (steam or diesel) in each new catalog, and as long as you don't require TMCC and Railsounds, as well as cheaper rolling stock and accessories, and you can do quite well with them.
Other ways to save: join a collectors club and you get the benefit of their on-line trading by members where you can usually pick up stuff much cheaper than from retailers -- also "like new" as opposed to "new" items. Go to train shows if possible where there are always bargains to be found. Just a few ideas. Happy New Year!

[LS1Heli]

If people are complaining about the O gauge prices than I am sorry you are not in the correct hobby. You need to be taking up something else...like book reading or sewing.

Lionel Trains have ALWAYS been expensive. For exmaple: The Lionel 1952 2343 Santa Fe passenger set with O guage track sold for what $79.95. Adjusting the Consumer Price Index (used a calc from 2004) that EXACT same set would cost someone today $569.88. Then add a ZW transformer to that $29.95 and adjusting it would have costed $213.48 today.

So in reality okiechoochoo someone in 1950 would of had to produce an enormous amount of funds back in the day to have purchased this set. Of course these numbers are estimates but close.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the prices are out of hand.There is alot of the scale locos selling for closeouts prices new and ones on the auction site just as cheap.
Here is my take raisounds 4 comes out it makes 2.5 locos cheaper because everyone wants new features, same goes for 5.0 and now we wait for TMCC 2. Now there is nothing wrong with these older locos except they lack features. As for convential engines prices are good. I have friends that play hockey and spend more on that. It is all about know your limitations.
Playstaion 2 games are $50.00 new, how many times can you play the same video game? A new piece of rolling stock is about the same price and will last alot longer.
Williams makes a good product at a good price point and if you want electronics for them they can be added. My brother has HO trains and pays $300 for a sound locomotive with no remote control.
In closing I feel the cost of living is rising(aleast here in Southeast PA) that is what is going to cut into hobbies no matter what your into to.

[Anonymous]

Oh yes this stuff is getting too high. I just switched from g scale to o scale for space reasons. Lionel has to many high priced items that don't even work well. MTH has high priced stuff that works well, just don't break it ( they have The worst custumer service behind Dell computer). By the way the RMT beep mini Geep is trash, I bought two and they don't pull much together or apart. They stall on clean track and they are jerky in operation.

[okiechoochoo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dontrainman

There are small engines(Plymouth, Dockside, Porter) for around $100. You can find bargins if you look. Lionel was selling engines for over $300 in the '50's when the average income was about $5000 a year. Just keep looking.[:)]

Your comment caught my eye. I was into Lionel in the 1950's. Tell me what engine Lionel was selling for over $300 in the 1950s. What set for that matter? It certainly wasn't in the catalogs. I agree this hobby is not cheap and never was, but I don't think anything from Lionel costs over $300 an engine in the 1950s

[brianel027]

I agree with Richard's original comment for this thread, but only in the context of newcomers to the hobby (families with kids specifically) and their first reaction upon seeing the Lionel catalog and others. Part of this is due to their lack of a frame of reference and that they are seeing full list prices. Then there's that catalog with a disproportionate amount of trains that are not meant for their son or daughter. Seeing that catalog full of more costly scale proportioned non-toy trains could certainly convince a newcomer that this is a very expensive hobby. And I've seen this happen.

But that's where it ends for me.

On a mail order level, discounted prices for starter types of items are close to a price point that they were on a decade ago. You can still find a respectable new starter Lionel set for around $140.00 although shipping/handling costs are definitely higher than a decade ago. Free shipping offers have more or less disappeared and minimum order costs are higher to qualify for shipping discounts. But there are more places offering blowouts than ever before and the blowouts seem to come faster and sooner these days. I recall not seeing blowouts on any item that wasn't at least a couple years out of catalog. But the overall quality of most Lionel starter sets is better than even a few years ago.

Not to mention being able to still find Industrial Rail, K-Line Train 19 and MTH Rugged Rails cars for $12-$20 per car. Not bad for the IR and Train-19 cars since the die cast trucks on those cars are very nice. K-Line's truck on the Train-19 cars is their best one yet. Williams makes decent affordable locos, but folks probably won't see them in your average hobby shop. And RMT has a couple of neat items with the Beep and the Buddy. Well made considering their price point and affordable.

And with the overall move in the hobby towards TMCC, DCS and scale proportioned trains, prices of older trains - especially less than pristine box-less of almost any era and especially MPC Lionel era are way down. When I got back in the hobby 15+ years ago, MPC era box cars were fetching on average $35-$45 and many times even more. The early MPC era box cars were going for around $50-60. the prices for those cheap brown plastic Reading 2-bay hoppers were ridiculous at around $35-40 a pop. You can do much better now. Same goes for MPC era locomotives. Many operators are ditching these less than scale, non-command trains and with the market glut, this is a great time for anyone to introduce some kid to the hobby.

But I also agree first impressions are important. Newcomers are more than likely to look at a current catalog first. And if they don't know much about trains, they're going to need some guidance from someone more established to know what to buy and what is a good price for that train item.

But that's the great thing about this forum. And the train companies know this too. They won't tell a newcomer where or how to scope out a deal on a decent condition used MPC era Lionel set. eBay and the other on line places have really changed the hobby. No longer can dealers at shows tell you how rare something is and that it is worth exactly what he says it's worth. That dealer will probably carry those trains at "his prices" to shows forever because you CAN find the stuff for less with patience and a little effort.

[c50truck]

I have discovered collecting toy trains is like restoring my 1950 chevy pick-up. You can pay someone numerous dollars to do the work. Or you can slowly work into it . Meet people who share your interest. Barter and trade ideas and parts. And before you know it, you have a gem at wholesale cost. Or you can pay.Your choice. in this great USA..

[Buckeye Riveter]

I try to limit my engine purchase to just one engine that I really want per year.

I have bought my share of new $20 cars at train shows.[:D]

[winrose46]

I think I agree with those who think it is on par for other hobbies. I have paid 4K year for a boat slip, I am paying $195/month for a hanger, $3.42 per gallon for aviation gas (80 gal tank), $3K to outfit my son and I with dive gear plus a $800 dry suit, (an aside of $20K per year to put 3 kids through college), 15K for a 3 axis autopilot, 8K for a GPS Garmin 430, not to mention ski equipment for 5, my professional camera gear ($2.4 K for the S3, $2K for the S2, $1.5 K for a Nikon VR 80-400, 1K for a 2.8 28-70 Nikon just to mention a few I know. Spending $320 for the Chessie Alco S2 is the same amount my son put in for his thermostat and another part plus labor on his 95 honda. I did 30 years with my post war 623 and 681 and gradually added to where I have bought 3 grand plus engines. Just be patient and you will get the money and have the discretionary income. Start small and keep adding to it.

[LS1Heli]

The prices for trains have dropped...bigtime. That is the whole reason behind Lionel moving to overseas production. To the lower the price to the consumer and to compete with MTH and K Line prices. They would be far behind if they never would have made that move in 2000.

Look at the price of the Super O Hudson PWC SET. An entire set with a scale hudson and diecast scale 700E tender and what like 7 pieces of rolling stock all diecast 3 operating cars for only $879.99? Try finding a scale hudson ENGINE for that price a couple years ago.

High prices are not hurting the hobby. If they were 1/2 of Lionels catalog would not contain $1,000 set and engines or the $2,000 Amtack thing.

[1688torpedo]

Prices do not seem to be as high as they were 10-15 years ago. Here's a example. I picked up a Lionel Two -tone Green San Fransisco Trolley that was made in 1988 at a train show last year for my Nephew. Anyway, I Paid $ 75.00 for it from a Gent who used to own a trainshop in Erie,PA & The Trolley is brand new in the box and had never been on the Track. 10 years ago most shops were selling this same Trolley for $125.00- 150.00 and this sure was a good buy at $ 75.00 and the Trolley runs like a champ.Just budget your money and shop around. With all of the competition around Plus all of the Old Lionel,Flyer,Ives still surviving this is a good time to be in the Hobby

[pbjwilson]

I think Lionel trains have always been expensive. It's just now that we go overboard and build up massive collections and extensive layouts.

Find a budget you are comfortable with and purchase things within it. I really enjoy collecting old Hafner train sets. At $30 - $60.00 a set they give me an enormous amount of joy and challenge to find.

[Anonymous]

If you want the latest high-tech trains, you'll pay a lot. But then...if you want to spend a week at a resort, it will probably cost more... and what will you have to show for it when you get back? Just because I get my "kicks" out of searching for that $150. postwar steamer or detailing a building interior does'nt mean everyone should enjoy doing it. Off-hand, I can't think of a hobby more diverse than this one in terms of personal interest, cost, etc. There is no reason why it can't be both fun and rewarding for ANY budget. Joe

[Anonymous]

Go look at what it costs to play paintball. A quality marker will cost $200 for entry level and $1500 + for higher end ones, and then you need the air system and everything else to get started! Then you go pay your $20 to play at some place and THEN $70-100 in paintballs in a night - at least I did with my trigger happy self.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that most "hobbies" will be as expensive as you make them. Perfect example: Fishing, do I really need all these *** lures - no, I only use a few but they look good in there. Besides, if I would stop getting snagged on crap I wouldn't have to keep replacing them :)

[pbjwilson]

I spent $140.00 on a face cord of wood - and burned it!

[Anonymous]

My personal feeling is that those who are buying high-end O gauge locomotives constitute the one group in the hobby (including all scales) that is paying too much for what they get. But as long as they're willing to pay it, I sure can't fault the manufacturers for asking those prices.

At the lower end, you can find some very nice stuff in O gauge at fairly reasonable or even darn reasonable prices. And in the other scales there's a ton of affordable stuff out there. In general, this hobby is as affordable as many others, and probably even more affordable than a good many I can think of. It's as expensive as you let it be, but anyone planning to enter it on a limited budget can certainly do so and derive as much--or more--enjoyment from it as the guy who has a closet full of $1,000 locomotives.

[tschmidt]

I believe you can find what you want in any price range. My son is a skier and the equipment cost averages $600 to $800 plus you need to have the clothes, spend money to get there and purchase a $40 lift ticket every time. In one season on the hill you can spend more than what a high end engine would cost. Many hobbies cost money and you have to budget for whatever you do.

Tom S

[Bob Keller]

This topic comes up quite often, and it gets back to any "grown up" hobby - you can pretty much enter at any pricepoint.

There are a ton of nice train choices with locomotives at $400 or less, and even more quality pieces at $250 or less - than there were 10 years ago. Like stamps, or antique cars, or coins, you can grow into it.

I keep thinking of those poor guys in HO - they've been experiencing price creep for several years and all they get for it is a little tiny train, where we have a manly size chunk of plastic and metal for our $$. [:D]

[daan]

I'm always buying leftovers from shops and secondhand stuff. I do have some technical problems sometimes, but everything can be solved one way or the other. This way I've build a small railroad imperium for the price of one premium ps2 steam locomotive. By the way, if it's your hobby it may cost a bit of money..

[Anonymous]

What does this hobby cost , compared to others ??? For instance, A round of Golf? Skydiving, Model airplanes?? Flying lessons? Show horses?? I am not wealthy, but have done all of the above, and when you are finished all you have is the memories. Sure I spend a lot on trains, but if I ever get tired of it, I can always sell them off and recoup part of the expense. Cant do that with a lot of other hobbies. By the way, its snowing and cold outside, so I cant do any outside activities, so I think i'll go run the trains....Tim

[TROOPERSMOKEY]

I agree with you. I've been in the hobby about 7 years now and alot of my collection has been others throw aways. I have purchased several RTR engines at modest to low prices. However, my wife who's no big fan at all bought me a MRC Prodigy DCC system 3 years ago and on Tuesday on my birthday I got my first DCC equipped engine. I'd love to have all Kato, Genesis, Proto 2K, not to mention the pinnacle of all Broadway Limited. Dropping 60-120 dollars for an engine means food, gas, bills etc.. Alot of the people I'm in touch with are all retired and can drop $ for anything they want and tell me just to go out and get it. "don't worry about the old lady". Yeah good advice if you didn't live with her. LOL It would be nice if the prices were alittle more reasonable for those who use this hobby as therapy to escape the stresses of life not to add to it.