Train commercials?

[Munster518]

This may sound like a dumb question, but why don't you see train commercials on TV. I mean, back in the 50's, lionel would be advertising on TV like crazy to permote new products arriving. Even on the radio, Lionel would be putting advertisements in?[?]

To promote this great hobby I'm just surprised someone (Mth, Lionel, K-Line,Williams) hasn't decided to make a commercial. With all of the amazing accesories,engines,rolling stock etc, that would be one cool commercial to show in all off.[:D]

Its just a simple question thats been bugging me, thanks.[;)]

-John[:)][?]

[pbjwilson]

There's a very good ad that's run on the radio in Chicago for the great american train show in Wheaton IL. It usually runs for a few days prior to the show. Gets my attention. I don't know what radio ads cost but it must be effective - they've been running it for quite awhile.

[Anonymous]

TV commercials are far too expensive these days for any of the train manufacturers to even consider. And you can't just do a one-time run of the spot, which adds to the costs. The annual marketing budget for most of these firms would be pretty well shot with just a couple of national spots.

Besides that, today's TV market, unlike the three-network structure of the 50s and 60s--is split between literally hundreds of available channels, so the share any given commercial reaches is apt to be relatively small, not to mention that it would be hard to determine where to target the ad in the first place.

These are small firms with similarly small budgets, relatively speaking, to devote to advertising. That pretty much rules out TV and even national radio advertising (which would probably not be effective in any case). About the best one can hope for is a local radio spot from time to time, placed by a hobby dealer or pehaps a train show or other event.

[Anonymous]

One would think that would be a great idea. Surely they could stand to profit immensly from TV commercials. You can't make more money, without spending some first.... It costs money to make money.

If a certain male-enhancment TV commercial can make huge profits from "Bob" and his frozen smile, then Lionel, or MTH should be able to do the same thing.
That male enhancement Co. was probably smaller than Lionel, yet they knew the only way to get the word out and make a killing was with TV. More sales from commercials equals more money to air commercials more often, & on more channels.

[Anonymous]

Sorry Cannonball, but Allan is right. National commercials are outrageousously expensive. My company ( a national well known brand) looked at doing some commercials. We actually made them and test marketed them in 3 larger cities. After a review, they didn't increase sales so we choose not to go national.

The train companies would do better to spend that money lobbying to make "POLAR EXPRESS 2 " or getting "Thomas the Train" on Thursday nights on NBC. [;)]

[Anonymous]

Whereas TV and maybe radio ads would be somewhat expensive,
how about some altenatives? Cable-access would allow exposure
fo the hobby if someone would do a show or two. RFDTV used to show
trains (both real and model) but who wants to wait until 0200hrs to
see them there? They don't always keep to their published schedules
either! (Dang!)

Also what about print ads? Not just in the "hobby publications" (Singing
to the choir), but what about an occasional newspaper ad? That kind of
advertising is still relatively affordable, especially in local papers.

Magazines are also fairly affordable compared to other media. I remember
when there were ads in such mags as Mechanix Illustrated, Boys Life and
even Esquire!

Some of that money that goes to bonuses for the ever-changing "upper-
management teams" and for "legal defense funds" could be better spent
on public exposure. I agree...If one can find the funds to hawk "male-en-
hancement pills" to a relatively large market, then the train makers should
have a few nickels to spend for publicity (of a positive kind) as well.

[Anonymous]

You really want to grow the hobby?

Get busy and do it yourself! Share your hobby with family, friends, and colleagues. Create a display for your local library or some other venue in your community. Invite the local media out to do a story or feature on your layout. Write a story for your local newspaper. Give a presentation to a club, senior's group, school class, or such. Have an open house/tour of your layout. Get together with other enthusiasts in you community and plan a mall show for the holiday season. The list of possibilities is virtually endless!

There's always a whole lot of harping on these forums about how the manufacturers should be doing more to grow the hobby. Well, perhaps they should, but it probably ain't gonna happen. If the hobby is going to grow, it's likely going to come from a grass roots effort with many hobbyists coming out of their shells (they tend to shed them nowadays only for Internet discourse) and demonstrating what makes this such a great hobby. No television, radio, newspaper, or magazine ad can do anywhere near as effective a selling job.

[FJ and G]

the way I see it, there could be commercials if the toy train companies just get a bit creative.

Perhaps they could partner with Kibbles and Bits and have a train gondolas loaded with dog food arriving at the station with hungry dogs. Cost of commercial would be sliced in half;

the energizer bunny did partnering with other brands and it seemed to work

[IRONROOSTER]

Another problem with advertising is: who is your target audience? Kids, potential hobbyists, or collectors? They are different markets and need different magazines, radio/tv shows, etc to reach their audience.

But there must be some interest out there, the train shows Greenberg has here seem to get good turnout twice a year.

The best promotion I think would be to have more mall displays of trains, with brochures on the hobby and a list of hobby stores. Or maybe the MRIA could sponser a trailer with a layout inside. It could tour the country.

Enjoy
Paul.

[underworld]

Dave has a good idea. One of the companies that I work for does just that.....combining advertisg. Not only does it cut the costs for each participant but it makes for a much more unique and memorable commercial. There is not much worse than a commercial that you don't remember five minutes after you watch it. One project that I am working with actually combines four totally different businesses.....all different owners.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[eZAK]

They could easily and affordably run adds & comercials in or on cable.
(Even the local dry cleaner & a couple of resturants do this)
I even get fliers from a hobby store 12 mi. away.

They could even have their own TV show.
( A local car collector and toy train operator does just that)

The only reason they don't,.... IS they don't have to!
They can sell $2,000 sets & $1,600 engines by only putting out a catalog!

I think the ones that should run adds are those folks at 'The Worlds Gretest Hobby'.

And YES, I promote my hobby every chance I get!

[Anonymous]

Lionel and MTH should have no trouble coming up with advertising funds for TV, and if they pick channels that are like TBS Nickalodeon, or Discovery channel etc, those channels focus on all age groups and have programming for everyone.
I bet they'de do well with the History channel too.

I can understand that smaller corp.s couldn't afford it, but the "Big-2" could...

[Anonymous]

"Lionel and MTH should have no trouble coming up with advertising funds for TV,"
-------------------------

Tell ya what. Check out the prices for 15-second, 30-second, and one-minute spots--one time network run--on some of the Channels you mentioned (Discovery, History, Disney, or whatever) and then get back to us with the figures. Only then can the assertion be made that Lionel or MTH "should have no trouble" affording such things.

[Buckeye Riveter]

There are train commercials in the Pittsburgh area on TV. I've seen them when I have been in eastern Ohio. I asked about these commercials awhile back on the forum and someone from Pittsburgh knew all about them.

[Anonymous]

I've heard a few MTH ads on KDKA radio out of Pittsburgh but that's about it. I agree with Allan, there's no way Lionel or MTH can afford ads on network or cable television. Anyone who has followed the MTH-Lionel lawsuit soap opera would know that. They're much better off spending their money for ads in the hobby magazines than TV or radio.

[FJ and G]

Tony Lash could do a commercial for MTH and foot part of the bill with a garbage train commercial, touting his pickup service, as well as MTH, and his layout, to boot

[FJ and G]

also, Spankybird could do a PBS special on the interaction of parrots and toy trains; not an advertisement but a subtle message

[Dr. John]

Lionel used to do TV commercials back in the late 50s through the early 70s.

Those commercials did little to stem the slow(?) slide of toy train business.

Remember the Johnny Cash Lionel commercial about "The mighty sound of steam?"
That was back when there were only three networks and lower advertising costs.

[Munster518]

I just can't believe that Lionel or Mth can't put some sort of commercial. Those thousand dollar engines have to be making them some sort of revenue.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Munster518

I just can't believe that Lionel or Mth can't put some sort of commercial. Those thousand dollar engines have to be making them some sort of revenue.

Lionel is in bankruptcy with creditors standing in line with their hands out. Also, both Lionel and MTH owe hundreds of thousands of dollars to lawyers because of the lawsuit. Mr. Lash also posted a thread about Lionel losing over 2 million since the first of the year. I don't think either of them have a large cash flow right now.

[Frank53]

The best way for a train company to build a strategy for marketing trains and generating interest in the hobby would be to . . . .

hmmmm, since I am in the advertising business, perhaps I should consider pitching their business instead of putting my ideas up here for free.

duh

[Anonymous]

Actually there were commercials for Lionel O27 starter sets on TV about ten or so years ago. I remember seeing a commercial at my grandparents showing these sets running on a layout and talking about Lionel. I have no idea what station it was on (my family didn't get it, though). I can also remember my grandpa saying that that commercial was on every now and then.

Lionel actually does currently promote its trains on TV. They've had Lionel layouts as prizes on The Price Is Right several times. The layouts have been simple with two ovals on different levels running an NYC Flyer freight and NYC FT passenger set. There's also a station, a gateman, an ore car, a high-sided gondola car and a couple of other accessories. The Price Is Right is a very popular program and is on CBS, so a lot fo people are exposed to Lionel through it. I imagine it would be much much cheaper to get their trains on The Price is Right than to go for outright commercials. I think they might just have to donate the trains in order to get them on without no (or very little) cost to them. Perhaps someone knows for sure.

While not exactly the same thing, those Lionel licenced watches, clocks and coin sorters have been advertised on TV, so at least it gets the company's name out there.

[tjsprague]

A few thoughts and reactions to all the posts from a 20-year advertising veteran.

A TV commercial is just one of many tools companies use for MARKETING their products.

Print ads, brochures, mailer, web sites, PR (attending shows etc) are the other tools. What money is appropriated to each has to take into consideration how much you are spending, per impression, on somebody who is potentially a customer. TV, even if it's placed in regional cable buys can be very expensive. Producing the spot will be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Plus, you have to pay the talent every 13 weeks you run the commercial (SAG rules), though you can cut that cost by producing the commercial out of the country.

The industry as a whole does just sell within the usual channels (CTT, OGR) because they are looking to gain sales by increasing "market share". That is, if the current market spends $100,000,000 a year on new product, you get one million dollars for every percentage point you can gain from your competitor's share of the pie. It may be a bit short sited, but it's more cost effective marketing. You know who you are talking to, you know how to reach them.

As for "growing the market" that is a process in which advertising is best suited in the later stages of the pursuit. It starts by promoting the product within the culture. Polar Express is a wonderful start in this direction for Lionel. it didn't make sense to advertise last Christmas as they couldn't make them fast enough. It may be interesting to see of they can make a step this year in retaining the new found customers.

In regards to a couple of other posts:

The Johnny Cash commercials, though we look back fondly now, were an utter disaster. Look at the year-to-year sales numbers at that time. Got worse every year. declining quality helped those numbers a bit, but the market changed from kids toys to adult hobbyists, and Lionel was slow to recognize.

Bob, and the Mail Enhancement ads. Well, unfortunately the money spent on such products far exceeds that of O-gauge railroading. But running that commercial didn't create the market, that was done by cultural forces. The manufacturers of these products are just taking advantage of the current attitudes and anxieties. Plus, it's not guaranteed that the male enhancement products will succeed even with all the TV expenditure. Viagra and Cialis on the other hand are greatly profitable products for the manufacturers.

So what are the makers of toy trains to do?
1. make interesting, affordable products for the entry level. and I don't mean $300 engines. The $59 K-Line diesels are a good step.
2. If you're in the O-gauge business, look to expand by taking some of the HO market. There's a feel to O-gauge which HO just doesn't match.
3. Stay in the publics eye. Whether it's Hollywood partnerships, placing product in TV shows, or donating product to children's wards of hospitals, work the PR.
4. Have a plan. Formulate an advertising plan which will keep sales going for now, plus grow your reputation in the public's eye for the future. do this by working with smart people who will think big, plus spend your money wisely.

Tim Sprague
Creative Director

[brianel027]

Tim has some interesting observations in his post above.

National television advertising is prohibitively expensive for the train companies, so it will take some creativity working with other avenues. And in case anyone hasn't noticed, the companies are all putting a large amount of captial into new design, engineering, tooling and dies for new scale sized products. These new products don't pay for themselves up front. I'd bet some of them take some time to see a return on their development costs.

Lionel has had a very aggressive licensing program which puts the Lionel name and logo in the public eye. It's too bad that on those many items, there wasn't some kind of clause in the agreement that stipulated the item packaging should contain some kind of reference like "for more information on the current line of Lionel trains go to www.lionel.com."

We all know that from the glory days of the hobby, the dealer display layout was one of the very best adverting tools. What better way for a father and son to decide on a train set than to actually see the trains in action. Today, we adults understand what comes in the train set box, but a kid today might not necessarily understand. So operating displays are still a first rate form of advertising.

There is certainly a long list of potential possibilities that I'm also certain the train companies have possibly considered already.
1) Co-op advertising agreements with dealers so that the dealers themselves can advertise.
2) Better wholesale margins for smaller local dealers so they are better in a position to advertise themselves.
3) Video or DVD catalogs showing a wide and varied range of product options. These could be paid for by the customer with a refund or rebate on the purchase of a train set.
4) Smaller classifed advertisements in non-traditional but target audience periodicals leading potential customers to that company's website.
5) Promotional items included in train sets, such as a buttom or stickers for school notebooks that say "I'm a Lionel Train Kid" or coupon incentives for a discounted T-shirt.
6) Including the company website address on licensed merchandise. How many different Lionel T-shirts and coffee mugs are out there? I've never seen one that had the company website on it. We are more and more a computer literate society.... lead the customer to your website.
7) Using the existing catalog as a more effective advertising tool. We established train buyers already know what is in the catalog, but what about the novice? Those Lionel catalogs from a few years ago showing young kids holding a $1,200.00 train engine was dumb and unrealistic. The catalog cover is a criticial tool for getting the beginner or the curious to pick it up.... the cover needs to lead that person to do so. The experienced train buyers pick up the catalogs regardless, so illustrate products on the catalog covers that would appeal to that first-time train buyer.
8) Again, on the topic of the catalog: why not a contest featuring a photo or photos of kid's train layouts alongside the products aimed at beginners. What a thrill it would be for any kid or beginner to have their layout in the Lionel catalog. And again, it shows the possibilities of what someone has actually already done with their trains.
9) Lionel has made an excellent move with the breakdown cost item listing with their new Starter Set Add-ons. Not only are the add-ons a great idea, but the cost break down shows the novice what a bargain they are. This technique of breaking down the item costs should be done with all the basic starter sets, so that newcomers will also see what a value they are.
10) I know Lionel dropped their Kid's Club some years ago, for what was said then, lack of interest. There may have been lack of interest, but I would have kept it going. K-Line's KCC Club has always been one of the best one's out there. It wouldn't be that expensive to offer a traditionally sized starter product as the incentive for a Kid's Club. Lionel already has a nice selection of starter cars... offer one of those as the premium for a Kid's Club.
11) The companies are all somewhat interested in the "collector mentality" as it has kept the hobby going through the lean times and has contributed to the previous rising values of trains. So why not put a coupon in every train set for the discount purchase of a train car made exclusively for that set and available only with the coupon and receipt of the train set purchase. A great way to start building future collectors.
12) Of course the promotional tie-ins such as with the Polar Express are great advertising tools. Tom Hanks was on TV promoting the movie and Lionel trains. Neil Young appeared on Leno years ago... instead of talking about his then album "Harvest Moon" he wanted to chat about trains and see Jay run his. Hey, there's advertising!!!

These things all involve some cost, but they are a minor or insignificant cost as compared to other options.

To give credit where credit is due:
1) K-Line's new operating road systems is a great idea. Kid's love moving cars as much as moving trains. I hope these items sell well enough to keep them available.
2) The Add-ons that Lionel and K-Line are doing for the starter sets are a great idea.
3) Although the price is up a little, the quality level on the new Lionel Starter Set type cars is the best it has been in ages. The cars are finally being painted and look very good from what I've actually seen. The CSX U36B starter diesel is VERY sharp and finally has dual motors (now I'm waiting for a Conrail U36B to be released again with dual motors!!!!)
4) The RMT Beep and the Lionel Docksider go down in my book as being the Best New Locomotives of the Year. Affordable end product is as important as high end product. It's nice to see some new affordable quality items. Quality reasonably priced products critical: the last thing you want is for a brand new customer to bring home his first train set and find it doesn't work. Bad news like that travels fast and is the worst advertising any company could get. A satisified customer speaks eons more!! In other words, quality control is every bit as important as media advertising.

[Anonymous]

Train Commericals between show content is not a great idea because it might be overlooked.

What makes the best impact is to have the model trains and toy trains become a part of the story on a Regular Series.

The other option is to get the trains in the picture on a Talk Show as the show transitions into and out of the breaks. The host of the talk show would occasionally run the trains.

Andrew Falconer

[thor]

Product placement is the best bang for your buck, piggybacking either with another advertiser or in films. I wouldn't be surprised if Lionel wasn't contacted about making the Polar Express rather than taking the initiative which isn't something they seem good at!

On the other hand though, their catalog is, in my opinion, head and shoulders better than MTH's. Much more interesting to browse through, a greater variety of things to buy, its my favorite bathroom book. I also think FasTrack is a winner, much better than any other in terms of appearance, its 3 rail that doesnt try and pretend otherwise and does it well.

Thomas the Tank Engine is the little guy thats making all the difference to our hobby, theres no doubt about that. Those Brio clone displays are in toyshops all over the place. Those toddlers are going to remember it fondly and want more and better later on. Thats product placement too! It sells TRAINS not a brand, an activity. I'm always astonished at the vitriol some train nuts pour on the whole Thomas phenomena - guys its your salvation.

For each of us that fascinate a group of family members with our playthings a seed is planted. Frankly you cant buy that kind of advertising at any price.

In my opinion in the urban jungles, Lionels best bang for its buck would be large hoardings with one of those father and son pictures of them playing happily with a railroad empire. Their name is already well known, I knew it and I'm English and was never into American trains at all. All it takes is a constant reminder "Hey! We're still here!"

[Jumijo]

Commercials and print advertising would work best at attracting newcomers to the hobby. The Polar Express has become an overnight classic, and Lionel should at the very least, consider some national print advertising of their PE set each holiday season. That advertising could take on the form of a traditional ad in a widely read periodical like Martha Stewart Living, or it could be in the form of one of those flyers or coupons in a Sunday paper. The Franklin Mint can afford it to hawk plates and statues and die cast cars. Why can't Lionel?

Why MS Living? Her magazine is in every single home I visit. It's in every doctor's and dentist's office I visit. Lionel could take out an ad contingent on the magazine doing an article on collectible antique trains. Happens all the time. One hand washing the other.

I think the main reason today's kids aren't as interested in toy trains as previous generations is because they aren't exposed to them. You put a toy train in front of a kid and they get hooked immediately. Kids love trains.

With that in mind, a two pronged advertising campaign would be most effective. TV advertising for the kids to see, and print ads as mentioned previously for parents. And if the advertising had a blatant wholesome slant, one that showed families interacting together without an TV, one that actually emphasized that fact, I'd wager more people would take notice and buy in. Families WANT to have activities they can share together, especially in the long winter months. Playing up that angle would do Lionel well.

How about having their product advertised on TV for free or close to it? Hey Lionel, call "The Apprentice" and have them do a show based on a competition to come up with the best advertising campaign for Lionel Trains.

There is no end to what could be accomplished with a little creativity and imagination.

Jim

[pbjwilson]

A few years ago Bachmann sold trains on the QVC shopping network. That was basically a 1/2 hour commercial for Bachmann trains. It would be great if Lionel or MTH did that. Alot of exposure on those home shopping networks.

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

A few years ago Bachmann sold trains on the QVC shopping network. That was basically a 1/2 hour commercial for Bachmann trains. It would be great if Lionel or MTH did that. Alot of exposure on those home shopping networks.

In the late 90's Lionel did also sold product on QVC but QVC drooped them because Lionel could not supply en ought product. [:(]

[lionelsoni]

Enquiring minds want to know: "Hoarding" is British for "billboard".