Train commercials?

[jimhaleyscomet]

Command control in every locomotive? Sounds like MTH. I rarely see a set without PS2. Perhaps some day Lionel can get the cost low enough to put command in every locomotive. I wonder what the incremental cost is to add command control.

Jim H

[Anonymous]

Somebody has to make a 30 minute commercial featuring only girls and women working with toy trains and model trains. That is outside the normal audience.

Andrew Falconer

[Jumijo]

This weekend, I re-read an interview Roger Carp did with Wellspring (Lionel) management. They stated that their advertising goal was to aim at people outside the hobby, not existing hobbyists. That was in 1996.

They also said they wanted to put TMCC in every locomotive!

[Anonymous]

The best toy train commercial would be to have a wide variety of people get together to build several small train layouts and operate them on a series that could air on a channel like TLC.

Andrew N.

[Jumijo]

The buzz about the Sopranos placement was only among people already in the hobby. And if you ask me, having a layout and playing with trains was portrayed a little negatively. When Tony came by and Bobby was wearing that hat and playing with the trains, it was obvious that Tony thought Bobby was a doofuss.

Advertising to the general public to make new customers is just as important, if not more so, than advertising to hobbyists already familiar with the products.

Jim

[dougdagrump]

Get them on TV and in the movies. Remember it was just a few weeks back when there was all this buzz about the opening episode of the Sopranos with the Lionel layout . [:D]

[Anonymous]

This is an annual review of what is happening in toy trains and model trains that operate on O Gauge Tracks. We will pick up the thread again in 12 months.

Andrew Falconer

[pbjwilson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jefelectric

Are we in a time warp? Am I missing something or does this thread start on April 18, 2005 and then pick up again on April 12, 2006?

"Beam me up Scotty"

[jefelectric]

Are we in a time warp? Am I missing something or does this thread start on April 18, 2005 and then pick up again on April 12, 2006?

[Anonymous]

What makes for effective train advertising here in Southern Michigan is the combination of the large O Gauge Layout at The Train Barn in Portage, MI and the seasonal O Gauge Layout at the Vicksburg Historical Society in Vicksburg, MI.

What would increase interest even more is a 1940 to 2000 era model of the Grand Trunk Western and New York Central in O Gauge that runs in a typically open building during the Thanksgiving-Christmas-New Year's time period in nearby Schoolcraft, Michigan.

All the small towns with Crossovers and Junctions could work with Historical Groups to install seasonal or permanent exhibits based on the Railroads that once passed through town and still run through town. Just like in the bluegrass song "The Passing of The Train".

Andrew Falconer

[darianj]

I thinks it's because a TV commercial just wouldn't make a difference for those companies. First of all you have the price of TV adds today. By the time you pay for the TV time, and the cost for making the commercial, it would probably turn a very little (if any) profit for the companies. I work for a well known pharmaceutical company and although the company has the money for TV adds, it's been decided that they are too expensive and would not even make a difference of 5% when all is said and done.

Also you have to deal with the fact that people don't really watch commercials too much now-a-days. People either flip channels while the commercial is on, go to get something to eat, or talk about what just happened on the program they are watching. If you're like me, you have a DVR and fast forward through commercials.

Then there's the fact that if you are lucky enough to grab someones attention during a commercial, that commercial has to be so far out there that when it's over, you don't know what was being advertised. I can't count how many times my wife and I have watched TV, saw a great looking commercial, and said to each other "That was a good commercial! But what were they advertising"?

I do think it wouldn't hurt for the companies to sponsor some of the the train shows that we watch. Also, I think it would be a good idea for them to start putting up train displays every now and then...especially during the holidays. Last year, I could count on 1 hand how may train layouts and displays I saw...and they were all done by a local hobby shop.

[Jumijo]

Hey Brianel027,

Congratulations on your 4th star!

Jay Leno has toy trains?! He grew up in the same town as me. He went to school and worked at McDonald's with my brother. Had a thing for cars even back then.

Jim

[tschmidt]

I would think that 1 page ads in popular magazines would do well, especially before Christmas. the magazine used would be dependent on the audience that you are trying to get to.

TomS

[lionelsoni]

Enquiring minds want to know: "Hoarding" is British for "billboard".

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

A few years ago Bachmann sold trains on the QVC shopping network. That was basically a 1/2 hour commercial for Bachmann trains. It would be great if Lionel or MTH did that. Alot of exposure on those home shopping networks.

In the late 90's Lionel did also sold product on QVC but QVC drooped them because Lionel could not supply en ought product. [:(]

[pbjwilson]

A few years ago Bachmann sold trains on the QVC shopping network. That was basically a 1/2 hour commercial for Bachmann trains. It would be great if Lionel or MTH did that. Alot of exposure on those home shopping networks.

[Jumijo]

Commercials and print advertising would work best at attracting newcomers to the hobby. The Polar Express has become an overnight classic, and Lionel should at the very least, consider some national print advertising of their PE set each holiday season. That advertising could take on the form of a traditional ad in a widely read periodical like Martha Stewart Living, or it could be in the form of one of those flyers or coupons in a Sunday paper. The Franklin Mint can afford it to hawk plates and statues and die cast cars. Why can't Lionel?

Why MS Living? Her magazine is in every single home I visit. It's in every doctor's and dentist's office I visit. Lionel could take out an ad contingent on the magazine doing an article on collectible antique trains. Happens all the time. One hand washing the other.

I think the main reason today's kids aren't as interested in toy trains as previous generations is because they aren't exposed to them. You put a toy train in front of a kid and they get hooked immediately. Kids love trains.

With that in mind, a two pronged advertising campaign would be most effective. TV advertising for the kids to see, and print ads as mentioned previously for parents. And if the advertising had a blatant wholesome slant, one that showed families interacting together without an TV, one that actually emphasized that fact, I'd wager more people would take notice and buy in. Families WANT to have activities they can share together, especially in the long winter months. Playing up that angle would do Lionel well.

How about having their product advertised on TV for free or close to it? Hey Lionel, call "The Apprentice" and have them do a show based on a competition to come up with the best advertising campaign for Lionel Trains.

There is no end to what could be accomplished with a little creativity and imagination.

Jim

[thor]

Product placement is the best bang for your buck, piggybacking either with another advertiser or in films. I wouldn't be surprised if Lionel wasn't contacted about making the Polar Express rather than taking the initiative which isn't something they seem good at!

On the other hand though, their catalog is, in my opinion, head and shoulders better than MTH's. Much more interesting to browse through, a greater variety of things to buy, its my favorite bathroom book. I also think FasTrack is a winner, much better than any other in terms of appearance, its 3 rail that doesnt try and pretend otherwise and does it well.

Thomas the Tank Engine is the little guy thats making all the difference to our hobby, theres no doubt about that. Those Brio clone displays are in toyshops all over the place. Those toddlers are going to remember it fondly and want more and better later on. Thats product placement too! It sells TRAINS not a brand, an activity. I'm always astonished at the vitriol some train nuts pour on the whole Thomas phenomena - guys its your salvation.

For each of us that fascinate a group of family members with our playthings a seed is planted. Frankly you cant buy that kind of advertising at any price.

In my opinion in the urban jungles, Lionels best bang for its buck would be large hoardings with one of those father and son pictures of them playing happily with a railroad empire. Their name is already well known, I knew it and I'm English and was never into American trains at all. All it takes is a constant reminder "Hey! We're still here!"

[Anonymous]

Train Commericals between show content is not a great idea because it might be overlooked.

What makes the best impact is to have the model trains and toy trains become a part of the story on a Regular Series.

The other option is to get the trains in the picture on a Talk Show as the show transitions into and out of the breaks. The host of the talk show would occasionally run the trains.

Andrew Falconer

[brianel027]

Tim has some interesting observations in his post above.

National television advertising is prohibitively expensive for the train companies, so it will take some creativity working with other avenues. And in case anyone hasn't noticed, the companies are all putting a large amount of captial into new design, engineering, tooling and dies for new scale sized products. These new products don't pay for themselves up front. I'd bet some of them take some time to see a return on their development costs.

Lionel has had a very aggressive licensing program which puts the Lionel name and logo in the public eye. It's too bad that on those many items, there wasn't some kind of clause in the agreement that stipulated the item packaging should contain some kind of reference like "for more information on the current line of Lionel trains go to www.lionel.com."

We all know that from the glory days of the hobby, the dealer display layout was one of the very best adverting tools. What better way for a father and son to decide on a train set than to actually see the trains in action. Today, we adults understand what comes in the train set box, but a kid today might not necessarily understand. So operating displays are still a first rate form of advertising.

There is certainly a long list of potential possibilities that I'm also certain the train companies have possibly considered already.
1) Co-op advertising agreements with dealers so that the dealers themselves can advertise.
2) Better wholesale margins for smaller local dealers so they are better in a position to advertise themselves.
3) Video or DVD catalogs showing a wide and varied range of product options. These could be paid for by the customer with a refund or rebate on the purchase of a train set.
4) Smaller classifed advertisements in non-traditional but target audience periodicals leading potential customers to that company's website.
5) Promotional items included in train sets, such as a buttom or stickers for school notebooks that say "I'm a Lionel Train Kid" or coupon incentives for a discounted T-shirt.
6) Including the company website address on licensed merchandise. How many different Lionel T-shirts and coffee mugs are out there? I've never seen one that had the company website on it. We are more and more a computer literate society.... lead the customer to your website.
7) Using the existing catalog as a more effective advertising tool. We established train buyers already know what is in the catalog, but what about the novice? Those Lionel catalogs from a few years ago showing young kids holding a $1,200.00 train engine was dumb and unrealistic. The catalog cover is a criticial tool for getting the beginner or the curious to pick it up.... the cover needs to lead that person to do so. The experienced train buyers pick up the catalogs regardless, so illustrate products on the catalog covers that would appeal to that first-time train buyer.
8) Again, on the topic of the catalog: why not a contest featuring a photo or photos of kid's train layouts alongside the products aimed at beginners. What a thrill it would be for any kid or beginner to have their layout in the Lionel catalog. And again, it shows the possibilities of what someone has actually already done with their trains.
9) Lionel has made an excellent move with the breakdown cost item listing with their new Starter Set Add-ons. Not only are the add-ons a great idea, but the cost break down shows the novice what a bargain they are. This technique of breaking down the item costs should be done with all the basic starter sets, so that newcomers will also see what a value they are.
10) I know Lionel dropped their Kid's Club some years ago, for what was said then, lack of interest. There may have been lack of interest, but I would have kept it going. K-Line's KCC Club has always been one of the best one's out there. It wouldn't be that expensive to offer a traditionally sized starter product as the incentive for a Kid's Club. Lionel already has a nice selection of starter cars... offer one of those as the premium for a Kid's Club.
11) The companies are all somewhat interested in the "collector mentality" as it has kept the hobby going through the lean times and has contributed to the previous rising values of trains. So why not put a coupon in every train set for the discount purchase of a train car made exclusively for that set and available only with the coupon and receipt of the train set purchase. A great way to start building future collectors.
12) Of course the promotional tie-ins such as with the Polar Express are great advertising tools. Tom Hanks was on TV promoting the movie and Lionel trains. Neil Young appeared on Leno years ago... instead of talking about his then album "Harvest Moon" he wanted to chat about trains and see Jay run his. Hey, there's advertising!!!

These things all involve some cost, but they are a minor or insignificant cost as compared to other options.

To give credit where credit is due:
1) K-Line's new operating road systems is a great idea. Kid's love moving cars as much as moving trains. I hope these items sell well enough to keep them available.
2) The Add-ons that Lionel and K-Line are doing for the starter sets are a great idea.
3) Although the price is up a little, the quality level on the new Lionel Starter Set type cars is the best it has been in ages. The cars are finally being painted and look very good from what I've actually seen. The CSX U36B starter diesel is VERY sharp and finally has dual motors (now I'm waiting for a Conrail U36B to be released again with dual motors!!!!)
4) The RMT Beep and the Lionel Docksider go down in my book as being the Best New Locomotives of the Year. Affordable end product is as important as high end product. It's nice to see some new affordable quality items. Quality reasonably priced products critical: the last thing you want is for a brand new customer to bring home his first train set and find it doesn't work. Bad news like that travels fast and is the worst advertising any company could get. A satisified customer speaks eons more!! In other words, quality control is every bit as important as media advertising.

[tjsprague]

A few thoughts and reactions to all the posts from a 20-year advertising veteran.

A TV commercial is just one of many tools companies use for MARKETING their products.

Print ads, brochures, mailer, web sites, PR (attending shows etc) are the other tools. What money is appropriated to each has to take into consideration how much you are spending, per impression, on somebody who is potentially a customer. TV, even if it's placed in regional cable buys can be very expensive. Producing the spot will be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Plus, you have to pay the talent every 13 weeks you run the commercial (SAG rules), though you can cut that cost by producing the commercial out of the country.

The industry as a whole does just sell within the usual channels (CTT, OGR) because they are looking to gain sales by increasing "market share". That is, if the current market spends $100,000,000 a year on new product, you get one million dollars for every percentage point you can gain from your competitor's share of the pie. It may be a bit short sited, but it's more cost effective marketing. You know who you are talking to, you know how to reach them.

As for "growing the market" that is a process in which advertising is best suited in the later stages of the pursuit. It starts by promoting the product within the culture. Polar Express is a wonderful start in this direction for Lionel. it didn't make sense to advertise last Christmas as they couldn't make them fast enough. It may be interesting to see of they can make a step this year in retaining the new found customers.

In regards to a couple of other posts:

The Johnny Cash commercials, though we look back fondly now, were an utter disaster. Look at the year-to-year sales numbers at that time. Got worse every year. declining quality helped those numbers a bit, but the market changed from kids toys to adult hobbyists, and Lionel was slow to recognize.

Bob, and the Mail Enhancement ads. Well, unfortunately the money spent on such products far exceeds that of O-gauge railroading. But running that commercial didn't create the market, that was done by cultural forces. The manufacturers of these products are just taking advantage of the current attitudes and anxieties. Plus, it's not guaranteed that the male enhancement products will succeed even with all the TV expenditure. Viagra and Cialis on the other hand are greatly profitable products for the manufacturers.

So what are the makers of toy trains to do?
1. make interesting, affordable products for the entry level. and I don't mean $300 engines. The $59 K-Line diesels are a good step.
2. If you're in the O-gauge business, look to expand by taking some of the HO market. There's a feel to O-gauge which HO just doesn't match.
3. Stay in the publics eye. Whether it's Hollywood partnerships, placing product in TV shows, or donating product to children's wards of hospitals, work the PR.
4. Have a plan. Formulate an advertising plan which will keep sales going for now, plus grow your reputation in the public's eye for the future. do this by working with smart people who will think big, plus spend your money wisely.

Tim Sprague
Creative Director

[Anonymous]

Actually there were commercials for Lionel O27 starter sets on TV about ten or so years ago. I remember seeing a commercial at my grandparents showing these sets running on a layout and talking about Lionel. I have no idea what station it was on (my family didn't get it, though). I can also remember my grandpa saying that that commercial was on every now and then.

Lionel actually does currently promote its trains on TV. They've had Lionel layouts as prizes on The Price Is Right several times. The layouts have been simple with two ovals on different levels running an NYC Flyer freight and NYC FT passenger set. There's also a station, a gateman, an ore car, a high-sided gondola car and a couple of other accessories. The Price Is Right is a very popular program and is on CBS, so a lot fo people are exposed to Lionel through it. I imagine it would be much much cheaper to get their trains on The Price is Right than to go for outright commercials. I think they might just have to donate the trains in order to get them on without no (or very little) cost to them. Perhaps someone knows for sure.

While not exactly the same thing, those Lionel licenced watches, clocks and coin sorters have been advertised on TV, so at least it gets the company's name out there.

[Frank53]

The best way for a train company to build a strategy for marketing trains and generating interest in the hobby would be to . . . .

hmmmm, since I am in the advertising business, perhaps I should consider pitching their business instead of putting my ideas up here for free.

duh

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Munster518

I just can't believe that Lionel or Mth can't put some sort of commercial. Those thousand dollar engines have to be making them some sort of revenue.

Lionel is in bankruptcy with creditors standing in line with their hands out. Also, both Lionel and MTH owe hundreds of thousands of dollars to lawyers because of the lawsuit. Mr. Lash also posted a thread about Lionel losing over 2 million since the first of the year. I don't think either of them have a large cash flow right now.

[Munster518]

I just can't believe that Lionel or Mth can't put some sort of commercial. Those thousand dollar engines have to be making them some sort of revenue.

[Dr. John]

Lionel used to do TV commercials back in the late 50s through the early 70s.

Those commercials did little to stem the slow(?) slide of toy train business.

Remember the Johnny Cash Lionel commercial about "The mighty sound of steam?"
That was back when there were only three networks and lower advertising costs.

[FJ and G]

also, Spankybird could do a PBS special on the interaction of parrots and toy trains; not an advertisement but a subtle message

[FJ and G]

Tony Lash could do a commercial for MTH and foot part of the bill with a garbage train commercial, touting his pickup service, as well as MTH, and his layout, to boot

[Anonymous]

I've heard a few MTH ads on KDKA radio out of Pittsburgh but that's about it. I agree with Allan, there's no way Lionel or MTH can afford ads on network or cable television. Anyone who has followed the MTH-Lionel lawsuit soap opera would know that. They're much better off spending their money for ads in the hobby magazines than TV or radio.