Solid or Stranded wire?

[lionelsoni]

A buss is a kiss. A bus is a wire that goes to all of whatever you've got, short for "omnibus", "of all" in Latin, and the same word as the vehicle that everyone rides. I think the "buss" spelling must have started because of the Bussmann fuse company, which makes "Buss" fuses.

Stranded wire and solid wire of the same gauge have the same cross-sectional area and the same resistance. The only reason for preferring one to the other is convenience in making connections.

Wire should be sized according to the fault current that the circuit is protected for. If your transformer can supply 15 amperes, use 14AWG. If it can supply 20 amperes, use 12AWG.

[ChiefEagles]

David, works great with conventional. The early question from rozy was concerning DCS. Rozy is using DCS and that makes a difference per the "Experts" [they are saying that in videos and etc].

[FJ and G]

I use single-strand 12 and 14 ga leftover wire from my ROmex basement wiring project. Single strand is much better; just don't twist on it or kink it up, i.e., anchor it securely.

If you're going to play with the wire and bend it, then multi-strand.

[ChiefEagles]

Great ideas guys. I do like to save a few $$$$.

[Jim Duda]

My "Buss bar" is just a screw...get a long 6-32 machine screw and screw it partway into your board - maybe 1/2 inch or so. Then cut off the head. Screw a 6-32 nut all the way down to the board. Now just stack all of your wires that you want tied together on the screw. (I use ring terminals so they won't pull off the screw.) Clamp them all together with another 6-32 nut, or wingnut, or even transformer terminal nuts (most of them are 6-32)!

Pretty cheap...and it works great!

[laz 57]

You can make your own buss bar by simply taking a piano hinge made of brass or some other metal taking out the metal bar that makes it hinge. Now you have 2 parts of the hinge. Drill a number of holes equally spaced and mount each strip onto wood. Run your + and nuetral leads to the end screws and everything off of the other srews to the different part of the track. Works great and doesn't cost much.
laz57

[ChiefEagles]

3rail, that is what I said.!!!!!!!!

I hope Katz does not mind, I am copying and pasting a reply to a person on OGR.
I believe you are referring to the difference between common bus and star pattern wiring. Common bus is used on a lot of traditional (meaning conventional) layouts. A large gauge wire is run under the layout and serves as the neutral for all power feeds. It was found that the DCS system signal would just wind around under the table and never get up to the track where it was needed.

Thus the star pattern is now recommended. You run feeds of neutral and hot wires to each track block. The idea is to keep both feeds of equal length.

Also, and this is very important, you need to have a terminal strip to which you connect all the wires and then feed in the transformer power. But you must use only one terminal strip per transformer handle. Do not have terminal strips feeding other terminal strips. This will greatly degrade the signal to DCS.

You indicated that command control (DCS) would be something you would be intersted in the future. If you lock yourself in now with bus wiring, you will pretty much have a miserable time later.

Jim Katz TCA 03-55573

[jwse30]

I'm an electrician by trade, so probably 99% of my layouts wiring as been done with scraps that were to be thrown away at work (example- a spool of #14, with about 50 feet left on it, too short to use). Because of this, I use a combination of solid and stranded. If I have a stranded wire hooked up to a terminal screw, I crimp a fork or ring lug to it.

I was fortunate enough to work on a fire alarm system at a local high school a few years back. I got several spools (10 or more, with about 50 to 100 feet on each) of 2 conductor 14 (solid). All of my track feeders and most of my accessories are run with it. And it's got a pretty pink, fire resistant outer jacket :)

All that said, you'd think my layout would be the best wired in the country. I've got so much wiring to do, it's not even funny. I've probably got 1/2 dozen accessories that sit idle on the layout because I haven't gotten around to running a few wires to them. I guess wiring is the last thing I want to do after spending a day at work wiring things.

J White

[3railguy]

Rosy, a buss wire is a main wire that takes off with feeders to track or accessories. For instance, if you have a block on your layout and want feeders every four sections of track (for better rail conductivity) for that one particular block, the buss wire is what the feeders take off from for the individual track sections. MTH recomends home runs. the buss is terminated where the home runs starts. The home runs are what branch off to the track sections (feeders). Many layouts use a commom ground. A ground buss is the wire that all your ground feeders connect too.

I think chief eagles is confused about buss wires. A bananna plug is a connector, not a wire. You can attach a bananna plug to a buss wire.

[wrmcclellan]

Chief,

Back 'atcha. Let me know that you got it.

[ChiefEagles]

Hey Roy, sent you email. [:)]

[wrmcclellan]

Something I instigated and used on our club layout (as I got burned out a long time ago try to solder under the table) is to use wire nuts to secure the track feeders (dropped through the layout) to the stranded feeders underneath. We have DCS signal levels of 10 to most areas of the layout and some 9's.

I fed from the TIU (used crimp connectors on loop terminals) to Square D ground buss bars (from Home depot) with #16 stranded wire. Then we fed from the Sq D buss bars to another set of distribution buss bars with #10 solid copper (220 volt yellow jacket from HD - 4 conductors for two track circuits). Then we fed in a "star" pattern to the track feeders with more #16 stranded. The 8 - 10" track feeders are #18 or #20 solid copper (easier and less obvious when soldered to the side of the rails.

All feeder pairs (common and hot) are Ty Wrapped together (if they were not already jacketed together).

DCS radio signals like the two conductors to be close together for best RF propagation down the wire (think of the old roof mount TV antenna flat cable twin lead wire as an example). However - the use of the wire nuts does not interfere and they sure make life easier when you are troubleshooting. Also saves significant time attaching the wires over your head.

The wire nuts have been in place for over 3 years now and not a single failure (hey they work in your house wiring for decades!).

BTW - we also dropped common wires from BOTH outside rails (Atlas track) so we would have TMCC signal to both rails when possible (except where we use one outside rail for signal control).

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

I am currently rewiring my layout and am using Stranded wire# 14 and # 16 for track. Using #16 or 18 for accessories depending on the distance.Use different colors for different uses and make yourself a color code chart that you can find. Sooner or later you will need it to refer to. Other than that just use common sense. Dont put in splices, unless absolutely necessary, and then only in a place that you will have access to. Put all connections in accessable locations. Radio shack has an item # 274-677 its a 12 position barrier strip. This can be used for a terminal bar or they can be cut off in twos and screwed down. They have a set screw that is recessed in plastic so if anything should touch it , there will be no problem. Do the best you can possibly do, even if it means spending a few extra bucks. Better safe than sorry, or crawling around under the layout trying to find a bad connection or a mistake you could have avoided. Thats my 2 cents, more like 20 or 30....Tim

[ChiefEagles]

10-4 ususally a long plastic bar with several screw downs to hold wires.

[Anonymous]

Is a buss bar the same as a terminal block ?

[ChiefEagles]

Rozy, you do not want to use buss lines. Use banana plugs from Radio Shack [other electronics suppliers have them too]. Then run your stranded wire #16 [I use #14] to a buss bar [where you can attach the ground and + from the TIU] and then run your wires to the track from that. DCS does not "like" a single line run the length of your layout with wires [soldered or atached] coming off of it going up to lockon [on new layout I will use MTH lockons] or soldered to the track [which I do now]. DCS likes for you to run your wires individually from that single buss bar to each lockon or soldered location.

[Anonymous]

How do you suggest connecting stranded wire to the TIU ? traditionel Lionel lockons ? Also what are buss lines ?

Thanks
ROZY

[ChiefEagles]

Have always used a quality power bar with surge protector on all my electronics. Do the same for trains [DCS and TMCC].

[laz 57]

Just rewired my layout as the manufacturers suggested stranded wire, 16 gauge.
laz57

[Anonymous]

The is another issue related to this topic that should be touched on, how big is your transformer, or how many amps can it deliver? Too light a wire and the wire solid or stranded becomes a fuse. If you are using a Lionel TPC 300/400 and you have 2 180 watt power houses, this is about 18 amps, then the primary distribution to your track needs to be 14 gauge or heavier. I use 14 gauge as the primary and 18 gauge feeders every 6 feet. On the 70 feet long track loops there is no power drop.

-ck

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Redhawk97

Hello: Solid wire is the better conductor, stranded is better for using crimp connectors, useing #12 is great for track feeders, A lot of good comment's on this topic. As a side note, How many operator's use a power bar with SURGE protection for the 110 volt side? Redhawk97 (30 years as an Electrical Contractor)

I have always used a power bar with surge protection. The Lionel TMCC Manual suggests that you use a power bar in the Appendix. [^] And since, AEP can't keep the power flowing in Buckeye Land, [:(] it seems a very prudent piece of equipment to have in place.[:)]

Outside I have ground faults for the LGB layout.

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrmcclellan

Solid and stranded copper wire of the same American Wire Gage (AWG) size (circular mils of copper) carries the same current.

Stranded is easier to run and bend.

BTW - in terms of strict radio theory, solid wire is a better conveyor of high frequency signals. At the levels we work at it is irrelevant.

Regards,
Roy

If Roy says it is okay to use stranded, it's okay to use stranded. The guy knows his stuff.

[AlanRail]

Either wire works in our applications:

But I do use stranded wire to get power and signal to the track from the TIU. All of my stranded wire connectors are crimped with an 0-connector instead of a spaded connector; I usually solder the wire to the crimped connect as well. ( A friend has advised on the probability of “bad” wire connections in multi-wire applications)

However, it is hard to use stranded wire from the AIUs to the Z switch machines.
As both the switch machines and AIUs use small screw-down connectors that will challenge a stranded wire.

Alan

[Anonymous]

Hello: Solid wire is the better conductor, stranded is better for using crimp connectors, useing #12 is great for track feeders, A lot of good comment's on this topic. As a side note, How many operator's use a power bar with SURGE protection for the 110 volt side? Redhawk97 (30 years as an Electrical Contractor)

[3railguy]

I prefer solid core for buss wires because it holds its shape and doesn't tangle. It is also easier to strip the insulation back for T joints. For feeders, I prefer stranded because it flexes and pulls easier, and wraps around the buss wire easier.

Solid core AWG is slightly larger than stranded AWG so it will handle the same amperage. Voltage drop becomes a concern in runs over 50 feet and the easy thing to do is oversize it a gauge.

[Anonymous]

In my opion stranded is the way to go. The heavier the gauge(the lower the wire number) the better off you'll be. Remember you can never go too big when it comes to wires as long as it's workable to your situation. I like 14 gauge because it is readily available in many different colors at auto parts stores. John

[Chris F]

I used 14 gauge stranded for my bus lines and 18 gauge solid for my 12" track feeds. I didn't want to mess with stiff 14g solid, and I had better luck with solid wire to the bottom of GarGraves track.

Wires to my accessories are what happens to be available at the time (!). Anybody notice that the wires that Lionel is packing with recent accessories now is stranded with tinned ends rather than solid? The newer wire is larger, too.

[Anonymous]

Stranded wire works best for me. It's more flexible and easier to work with. Many problems people experience with stranded wire are because there are many different kinds of coatings (insulation) on wire and some guys use a much to heavy gauge wire with a thick industrial insulation that is difficult to work with.
BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[willpick]

I've used both on the same layout- solid for the buss lines, stranded for the feeder wires to the track and accessories. I've never had a problem using either[:)]

[ChiefEagles]

Interesting to know that. I had been told it was the other way around.