$185 is way out of my price range, Flintlock- the most expensive loco I ever bought was my 2321. It almost broke the bank for me at $160 or so all told, but I absolutely had to have it. Have I spent that much in one go before? I could probably count it on one hand. But never for a single item. I buy stuff on a budget! And then I work my magic, and most stuff either runs again or sits around until I get parts for it, or use it to give parts to something else.Trust me when I say... I know exactly what zinc pest looks like, unfortunately I've had plenty of run ins with it. Unfortunately, it was unmistakable. I saw a vid on YouTube of a 682 and in the description the owner says that it had zinc pest in the frame. Postwar zinc pest is definitely an extremely rare condition, but it's also definitely not something that never happens. The 682 I saw at that show definitely had a bad frame... it was swolen with cracks all over. The shell was intact and pest free but the paint wasn't that great iirc.Becky, yikes! It must be... you should probably fix ityou knowWhen you get aro- ah. Right. This talk of whistle tenders has me wanting to take a stab at one again. Maybe I'll do that before the weekend hits, if I have time. I need to clear my 1946 American Flyer 151 Hudson off the work bench. Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion that the field magnet is too weak for it to run. Back to being a shelf queen until I make myself a magnetizer.-Ellie
"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"
You know, I was thinking. (LOOK OUT!) I've had that old TUIT for about 40 years and it hasn't put driver tires on my Dreyfuss or cleaned and lubricated my 2035 either! It must be broken!
Same me, different spelling!
LeverettrailfanI'm very happy about the news on the 681, I really need me one of those.
A 681's a good one to have! I've got one of those and I didn't even know I needed one! I was at Henning's Trains in Lansdale PA and saw one at a REALLY decent price, around $185 as I recall, and since it was at Henning's I knew it was going to work, they overhaul and tune up all the used stuff that goes out for sale. So, it came home with me! 681's are pretty common so be patient, you'll find a decent one probably sooner than later.
A quick word on zinc pest. Actual zinc pest means deterioration and crumbling of the metal and once it starts it can't be stopped. Caused by impurities in the metal it's actually very uncommon in post-wars, in fact I've never seen a post-war Lionel that was a victim of zinc pest. What you MAY have seen was zinc corrosion, an whole 'nother thing. Like any other metal zinc can corrode but it's not hopeless, the corrosion can be cleaned off and stopped just like on ferrous metals.
Some folks worry about zinc pest on pre-war diecast engines but my attitude is if it hasn't started by now, 80+ years after it left the factory, it's probably never going to start so don't worry about it.
LeverettrailfanA rattle, you say? Honestly I feel like I've got that issue too with one of mine... I have a suspicion that maybe an armature shaft bearing needs replacing. Oh, but I do hate taking those whistle assemblies apart! Did it once, or twice but I never pulled the armature shaft.
Me neither! I have taken the motor assemblies down as far as I cared to, even taken apart the section where the turbine is for inspection purposes, but never found a situation where I thought the bearings were shot. No wiggle, no wobble, and spinning freely, which is why I suspect the rattling's due to arcing.
I know what you mean about the modern DC motor whistle units being rattle and background noise free, I've seen it myself. The only problem I've ever had with one of those was a blown controller board, the whistle came on as soon as there was track power and wouldn't shut off. A replacement board assembly from Brasseur's solved the problem.
Let us know how a DC motor swap in an older tender works. I wouldn't think a direct swap would work without an inverter board, but you never know.
Ellie,
with these old trains, you find what you find,you get what you get...
what I mean is we find trains we want, some are in great condition,others not so much. I got lucky with my 681: cosmetically very good, tight mechanically, smooth running.
But my 726 rr....there's a loco to tinker and learn! And I did, thank you very much! Anemic pulling power, had to crank it up fully. Cleaned everything, no difference. So one frustrating day, I had the shell off, lights were dim in the room, running the chassis on the test track.Then, I saw sparking right where the wire from the field coil attaches to a lug on the motor frame. This is the ground for the entire motor! A dirty connection, so I made a ground wire from there straight to the loco frame. This solved all problems with this particular engine. It was old, and heavily used. This was the condition she came to me...
I guess we just do the best with what we have to work with!
Paul
I hear you on the deferred maintenance... it happens. I usually have the time to tackle my equipment, but frankly I often forget how bad something can get just from not being used. I go to pull out something I haven't played with in a while and it doesn't run right! Out come the tools... or else I have to put it back in a box or drawer and grab a different locomotive/car/accessory to play with in the meantime.
I've been learning a lot from touching HO again, far more than I ever knew when I was doing HO from when I was 8 until maybe around when I turned 12 or 13. That was when I switched to O-27.One lesson I've learned with my new forray into HO is... don't try to run it until after you've done work on it. You could blow a winding and/or trash a brush spring if the mechanism is seized or stiff. Some motors are definitely more hearty than others. Another lesson I've learned is that in HO, you don't pull the whole motor apart to service it. Messing with the "flux" the magnetic field has through the armature takes a massive blow to the strength of the field magnet, which will weaken the motor and put you at higher risk of burning it out... yikes!! Until I make myself a magnetizer the lesson has been learned... only pull the armature as a last resort, and goodness please use a keeper!I'm very happy about the news on the 681, I really need me one of those... can you believe that I own a FM trainmaster, a horizontal motor F3, a Berkshire, and a hudson... yet I don't have a single turbine? It's a problem. I nearly went for a basket case 682 at a show but I decided that it was just too much. Frame gone to zinc pest, no front or rear truck, paint wasn't too great... the shell was intact I think but that's about all you were going to get out of it. I decided that $20 for a shell and some wheels just wasn't worth it. By the time I bought enough parts to have a full loco, I could have my pick of just about any other Turbine. And I probably wouldn't even be able to keep the original paint. If you're only buying the engine for the shell, and even that has had it's value tanked... why bother. Now, if it was being sold for $5 on the other hand... Your success story is making me think again about trying to sort out my 736. It was a real mess when I got it, and... in some ways it still is. I thought it at least ran somewhat, but I recently tested it and it wouldn't even do that! I've been baffled by the awful performance it's given me, even after replacing the motor bearings, but now I'm wondering if the cause of my problems is that the motor needs to be shimmed. I'm hoping it's this, because the other possible culprit can only be solved by replacing the motor.-Ellie
A rattle, you say? Honestly I feel like I've got that issue too with one of mine... I have a suspicion that maybe an armature shaft bearing needs replacing. Oh, but I do hate taking those whistle assemblies apart! Did it once, or twice but I never pulled the armature shaft.To tell the truth, I've honestly entertained the idea of re-powering them with can motors, after noting how well a 'modern' fan driven Lionel whistle tender worked, which I found replaced the open frame motor with a small can motor. If you think about it, two of the main advantages of a DC can motor are the low current draw and quiet running- two of your biggest enemies when trying to get a tender to operate correctly. I haven't done it yet, but I'm still thinking about it...I agree that there's virtue in salvaging good parts from a totaled [object of your choice here]. I've definitely done that to keep something going here and there. I tend to save totalled equipment I wind up with, every so often I find that something I had no use for suddenly is just what I need to fix something else.-Ellie
Oh! Forgot to mention: my Flyer display loop is nearing completion! This is the one high up in the corner of the train room. Having big problems posting pictures these days..
But I thought you all might be interested,if I can figure it out.
Thanks for the tips, Flint and Ellie! So, when I was working, " deferred maintenance " was the norm. I just didn't have the time. I spent several days last week going through the H0 stuff, got all but one running. Uh-oh ! There's another box in the closet.... Some of this stuff will never run again.
I will usually bundle my projects together, last week H0, maybe next time Lionel tenders! I haven't even opened it up yet, hope it's not too bad...
I was just ecstatic to get the 681 rolling!
Swiss-Colorado-LinesI purchased a second 2026('48 and '49 version). It runs and smokes great, but the whistle is frozen....
I concur with Ellie, if that whistle's frozen it's probably due to old dried-up lube and possibly some assorted filth in there. A good cleaning of the assembly plus the motor armature, lubing the same and replacing the brushes and springs as Ellie suggested (or just cleaning them with alcohol) may bring it back to life.
The above worked on one of mine. There's a bit of an annoying rattle that I can't do anything about, it's not too apparant with the tender shell off but the shell acts like an echo chamber when I put it back on. I suspect the noise is coming from the arcing between the brushes and the motor armature, replacing brushes and springs didn't make a difference, it still arcs and make the noise. Maybe it's endemic to AC motor whistle units and there's nothing you can do about it. On the plus side, you can't really hear the rattle when the train's in motion.
It's been said before and it's true, even though they may have babied the engines owners frequently totally ignored the whistle units.
On the vintage N: at one time (1979) I considered the Rivarossi steamers to be my premium trains. Eventually, one or two went out of service.I discovered that I could move the motor brushes from a working unit to a non working unit, and...Presto! Instant fix! So, one time I went into a hobby shop and inquired about buying brushes....the guy looked at me like I totally lost it! Recently,I have seen the Rivarossi brushes on the web,but no word on any of the other makes and models....
Vintage H0: there was a time when H0 was about the building of kits.
structure kits,car kits,loco kits. A friend gave my some vintage Model Die Casting car kits, and they are die cast metal! Sweet!
And Bowser. I wish I bought more when they were still in production. If I come across a vintage kit,unbuilt and complete, I'll probably buy it, and build it myself!
Just lucked into a couple of Herkimer streamlined car kits. Extruded aluminum!
I relate deeply to the dirty wheels and old rubber! Ever since I allowed collecting HO again into my life, I've found myself cleaning wheels a lot more than I used to. Not just the locomotives, rolling stock too! I find that pretty much all rolling stock tends to get 'gunk' caked up onto the wheels... a mix of old grease and oil, dust, dirt, and oxidation from the rails slowly gets built up. I think heavier equipment gets less of this build up, but almost all my frieght cars need this stuff removed after a while. They all roll a lot better after being cleaned- metal wheels are relatively easy, cleaning up the plastic wheels is a bit more of a pain.All the HO I've handled for the most part had bad rubber components- flexible drive shaft couplings, traction tires, motor mounts, and so on. Either the rubber dried out, or it melted into nasty black goo. Not a problem if there's cheap, easy to find replacements, but that hasn't been the case for the vintage Marx and Lionel models I find myself needing to replace these parts on. I've had to improvise however and wherever I can!Vintage N... interesting. I have an Arnold Rapido F unit chassis I got in a lot of junk which I spruced up. It's going to be a parts unit for an ALCo FA I have somewhere with a totalled motor. I wonder if one can modify the brushes used in cheap DC can motors to fit those things, I'm not sure I'm ready to try that one yet! I'd rather keep myself to bigger stuff if I can, though I have a friend who's working on slowly reviving his N scale layout, and it might be wise of me to start building up skills so I can work on his trains if/when the need arises.I agree that enjoying the fixing aspect of the hobby is a very fortunate thing, I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't taken a liking to it. In regards to that 2026's tender, I still haven't found a way to garuntee myself a flawlessly operating whistle, but I have more or less established some steps to always take. One thing I've taken to is always replacing the brushes and springs. It won't hurt the performance, and it definitely improved at least one of my whistles. Good luck with it, I hope you get it going again... y'know, when you get a- oh right, Becky's already got you covered there! -Ellie
There it is!
a 'round tuit! All my projects shall be completed! But, this also means.... that I have to get to work......
You can borrow mine!
https://link.shutterfly.com/da4heQoFVpb
Yes, I'm a " gear head" when it comes to trains! Love tinkering and fixin'
Sometimes, they even work when I get done......
Sure keeps you busy!
You know, if you're like me you enjoy fixin' 'em as much as you enjoy runnin' 'em!
Most of the time...
Three years in on my train room, and with nearly daily operation, it strikes me as just how high maintenance this hobby can be! I just retired a month ago, so I have time. I find I get just as much done, I just work slower....
so, here it is: The life and times.......
First off, in my infinite wisdom, I had created many inaccessible areas on my layout. First order of business was making a track cleaning car for every scale. I have one for 0, S, H0, and N. I already had one for G.....
Lionel: not many problems here, except the 681( my all time favorite Lionel engine) starting acting up a year or two back,and I shelved it temporarily ( when I get a 'round tuit). Having the time,I rebuilt the E,cleaned comm and brushes. She starts and rolls a train easily at 8 volts. Back to normal.
Lionel 151 semaphore started to stick in the down position. Got lucky with this one; only needed a drop of oil at the pivot!
I purchased a second 2026('48 and '49 version). It runs and smokes great, but the whistle is frozen....
when I get a 'round tuit.....
Flyer: been very well behaved, not problems to report except the constant buildup of black carbon on the rails from the arcing of the tender wheels.
Here's something: clean track and wheels= greater smoke output!
H0: 50 year old brass engines need TLC. Most have all the plating worn off the drive wheels, so the biggest need is track and wheel cleaning.Occasionally, there might be a problem with the rubber " universal " deteriorating and slipping. The three Bowser engines are holding up extremely well,and are running more smoothly and quietly.
Or is it just my hearing?.....
N: 40 year old engines are dropping like flies....sometimes I can clean and finesse them into action.If only I could get brushes.......
Biggest overall project for everything,including G:
track and wheel cleaning,although much less critical on the Lionel side of things....
It's a good thing I enjoy fixing stuff............
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