Peter, I did note the difference in the pilots. I think they changed them to accomodate theI recently had a bit of an epiphany as to why Rivarossi gave all the Lionel HO stuff their weird "low shank" coupler. I noticed that all three of my lionel Rivarossi cars have coupler pockets molded into the bodies. Compare that with equipment that was manufactured with talgo-style couplers, like a Lionel-made car or a Tyco car, and there's no coupler pocket molded into those pieces of equipment.It seems that Rivarossi's game was to use an adapter bracket on the trucks of their HO rolling stock, with these low shank couplers, so that they could clear the coupler pockets molded into the underside of the cars. Lionel HO was sold with 18" radius curves, and you could also get 15" radius curves, which definitely wouldn't play nice with cars that have body-mounted couplers, esepcially not longer cars and locomotives. Talgo style couplers would perform much better. Now, as to why they used the funny brackets and couplers for the bobber caboose (which has a ridgid single truck that doesn't pivot), Imy guess is perhaps to keep the entire line standard. If all the locomotives and rolling stock used the exact same coupler part, it would be easier on the service stations for sure. I imagine it would be fairly easy to convert all the Lionel/Rivarossi HO cars to body-mounted couplers if one desired, but I want to keep them as original as possible.Back to the C-Liners, I don't want to swap the shell. Honestly the thing I'm most concerned about, is if there's any damage to the mechanism. I had forgotten this, but there is a site called RivaRestore which supplies reproductions of a lot of older Rivarossi parts, especially zamac parts since old Rivarossi is known to sometimes suffer from zinc pest. The parts wouldn't be cheap to get, but if I had to I could in theory replace the trucks, and I see they also sell reproduction sideframes. But the costs involved means I probably am not going to purchase parts unless I have to (a reproduction motor truck casting is €35 [a touch over $37 usd] not including shipping. Correct plastic truck sideframes are €15 [close to $16 usd]). It would also be unpleasant if the motor truck were bad, because they currently don't have any in stock!The only problem visible with the shell of the 0503 powered A unit, is the missing chunk out of the back. If I can, I'd like to find a damaged or non-valuable C-Liner shell (currently not sure if it matters what make or material) and use it to cut and splice in a new 'back' for the shell. I traded away my AHM C-Liner a while ago, so I can't compare how the tooling has changed back there, but as long as I can have a working loco then that's a good start.Of course, I can also probably swap the shell from the dummy onto the powered unit if I really wanted to.As for the side frames, well, they are what they are right now. We'll see. I can mend the two that are still there, the missing 2 are missing, but any time I feel like fronting the $$, RivaRestore does have the correct side frames, already painted gray for WP units too (you can also get them in unpainted black). I could even get them in zamac, but the originals were plastic so I intend to go the same route when I eventually get around to it.-Ellie
"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"
Rivarossi made the FM in Western Pacific themselves, and this was the first colour scheme used from 1952. It appears to be indentically coloured to the Lionel version, grey rather than silver.
It seems likely that AHM and IHC may have used the same Rivarossi scheme for the models made in Slovenia.
The original Rivarossi models had a different front coupler arrangement with a different pilot moulding. This is seen in the Lionel poster that you posted early in the thread, where an original Rivarrossi model was used probably before the Lionel models had been produced.
My IHC models have a different moulding with the opening increased in size (and height) to use a more conventional coupler arrangement.
If the paint scheme is the same, it might be easier just to substitute an AHM or IHC model for the damaged Lionel power unit.
If you ran with the power unit trailing the set, you gat the appearance of the original Lionel units.
Peter
Funny thing happened. Here I was, entertaining selling my couple Lionel by Rivarossi cars because they're rare and I like the toy-like feel of the Lionel corp products better (really, I'm scared of breaking the Rivarossi cars with how light and intricate they feel in my hands). Yet today I ended up making the call to approach a seller on the 'bay who had some listings up for a Lionel by Rivarossi diesel consist. I ended up going for it, even though the powered unit has some unfortunate damage.So, what did I buy?I bought a Lionel by Rivarossi C-Liner A-B-A decorated for the Western Pacific.One of the most interesting things to me about the Lionel/Rivarossi Western Pacific FMs is that you could purchase a matching B unit to go with the Powered and dummy A, but Lionel never made an O gauge B unit to go with its Western Pacific F3s.The dummies seem to be in good shape, but the powered unit has a few very nasty battle scars. That said, from what I understand these Lionel/Rivarossi locomotives are a challenge to find. My game plan is to try and repair the broken pieces by purchasing myself a donor engine. I'll be keeping my eyes out for another Rivarossi, though maybe I can use one of the Yugoslavian FM models instead if they're similar enough (and if paint will adhere to the truck frames). Of course, I'll need to find a shade of light grey that’s close to the original.Looking close at the listing images, I think it's very likely these are the earliest version of the Lionel/Rivarossi FM C-Liner, which used sheet metal frames instead of painted clear plastic frames. I'm not someone who currently hunts for variations, but for an already rare set of locos, that would be some nice icing on the cake- maybe enough to help me forget the state of the powered unit. I just hope that the drive is ok.Here's some auction images, of the poor power unit, No. 0503:Not sure what I'll do about those broken coupers, I don't know of any source for them, these Rivarossi coupers are extremely 'low slung' so there's not an easy way to bodge another coupler in place of them.The dummy B No. 0523 and dummy A No. 0513 are in better cosmetic shape and don't have broken couplers.Hardly mint pieces, but still not bad. Lionel also made FM As and Bs for familiar O gauge F3 roadnames Wabash and llinois Central. The old Greenburg guide shows a prototype for a Santa Fe warbonnet, but they never put it into production. The remaining roadnames offered on the Lionel/Rivarossi C-Liner were Chicago Northwestern, Southern Pacific, and Texas and Pacific. I suspect the choice in liveries must have been limited to some degree, to what Rivarossi was offering at the time- otherwise perhaps Lionel would have ordered more road names that were already familiar to, or planned for the O gauge F3 line.
This is going to be an interesting project... I honestly do really like the look of these units, even though they'd look better in silver rather than gray. Hopefully I have good luck with mending the 0503.-Ellie
Unfortunate news- someone else won the auction for the service manual documents. Sniped it 2 seconds before bidding ended... not thrilling. Will have to keep my eyes out for another one to show up some day. Better yet, maybe I'll run into someone who has a set they'd be willing to let me scan.Well, life isn't all doom and gloom! I still have my Lionel HO operator's manuals that I've been wanting to scan, for the Milk Car, Remote Control Switches, and 0150 Rectifier. There's also a color brochure for the 0100 HO transformer and 0150 Rectifier, which I believe is from 1957. I should have access to a nice scanner soon, so I can do some high res scans of them. It's not much, but it's something!I still haven't posted images of a number of my Lionel HO pieces in this thread, I'm hoping to share at least some of them this week. My American Flyer HO Hudson also has yet to make an appearence in this thread, so I'll need to show it as well. It was missing a lot of pieces when I got it, and it's still missing those pieces. I have a SIT unit I got somewhere a while ago, which I'm eventually going to instal in it, the S gauge unit is the same as the HO one as far as I can tell, except that the on/off switch has to be bent part way down so it will clear the track. Since the unit I have is definitely an S gauge unit, I will have to modify the lever on my replacement unit. Also on the agenda is of course, re-magnetizing the motor field.Well, that's all for now. See you in the next post, hopefully with pictures this time!-Ellie
Ellie, remembering that Marx H0 road/ rail set: thanks to my dear Grandmother who always used her J.CPenney's employee discount to remember all her grandchildren. The 0-27 set also came from Penney's.
The set was controlled by a gray rectangular transformer with two vertical levers, kinda like a ZW. One lever was speed, the other direction. The slot cars were connected to the A.C. Accessory terminals through an A.C./ D.C. converter, then to the hand held speed controllers. This was a whole lot for a kid to hook up! Although the slot car speed controllers had a slide switch throttle, it really seems like they only had two speeds: full on, and full off! Of course, cars would go flying off on curves. And, my older brother found it immensely entertaining to crash the cars into my train at the grade crossing....
" Hey,cut it out"....
we found upgrade slot cars from Aurora in the late '60's, they ran much better. But yes, this was a fun set!
Tecnological advances: I remember 3 pole motors being the norm in the '60's for H0. 5 pole motors were bragging rights!
Also, all wheel electrical pick up was an advance that most did not have. And also, all wheel drive, in a time when most diesels had only one driven truck. The H0 we know today bears little resemblance!
A lot of scenery materials came in from Western Germany: Faller, Noch,etc. Structures from Kibri. Having shown an interest in model trains, Christmas '68 I was given a wealth of model railroad materials, most coming from the toy department at W.T.Grant. Some interesting things: fromFaller or Noch, I had a grass scenery kit that consisted of a bag of green plastic fibers, a shaker bottle, and a bottle of glue. You would put the fibers in the shaker bottle, spread a layer of glue on the layout, and shake out the fibers. Static electricity would make the fibers stand up as they came out of the shaker!
Paul
Paul, that Marx set sounds like a lot of fun. 3-pole motors definitely weren't the best thing in HO. I can see why Marx went with them, since Marx was all about getting more bang for less buck. Lionel also seemed to think that 3 poles was the way to go for their HO, but honestly if they wanted smoother running models they should have made 5 pole motors. I have a few Tyco locomotives with the mantua 5-pole motor, they do run very smooth once you tune them up. The one flaw with the Mantua system was the split pickup- but even so they're no slouches. Interestingly Tyco and Mantua are the same company- I reccomend reading the fantastic TCA Western article on the company here. As I know Becky has pointed out, their index of manufacturers is a very fun place to get lost in learning the history of various model train makes.Tyco definitely lost some quality when they switched to the 'Power-Torque' motor. I have had success working on them, but they're never going to be as smooth and quiet as the Mantua style 5-pole worm drives. Oh, and it's a bit too easy to loose those brush springs and brushes! I've heard a certain type of slot car brush and brush spring can work well as replacements so at some point I'll probably pick some up to see how they do.
Becky, I didn't even think of the idea of a icing station as long as the O gauge one! I'll have to pull out my MPC version but since Lionel HO boxcars and reefers were based on 40' cars I think you're right on the money about being able to fit at least 2. I wonder how well the mechanism would scale. My intuition is that, just like with the 0900 operating platform, it would be actuated with a solinoid identical to the one used in a 2-position E-Unit. Seeing as they could make little HO scale milk cans, I bet they could make HO ice cubes. Though I suspect there could be challenges keeping them from flying everywhere but where they were meant to go.It's times like these when I start to think I need to learn CAD properly and save up for a 3D printer. Something that I'd especially love to have seen in HO is some sort of Log and Coal loader that you could set up next to the 0900 in place of the unloading bin- so you could endlessly load and unload your 0300 Log Dump Car and 0301 Coal Dump Car entirely by remote control. You had multiple choices for O gauge log and coal loaders, if they had the sales to support it I'm sure they could have come up with something.-Ellie
Yes! The icing station in HO could have loaded 2 cars at once at the O Gauge platform length. 3 if they lengthened it a couple of inches! Imagine how cool that would be, 3 car icing men working in unison!
Is anybody at Lionel listening? We just gave you some fantastic ideas!
Same me, different spelling!
Early H0 ! It brings back a lot of fun memories from my wonder years.... First train set was a Marx 0-27 set, early 1960's. All plastic, steam engine, plastic 2 axle cars with a silhouette of a proper 4 wheel truck molded on the outside.... even at 5 years, I knew this was totally Bogus.....
Second train set was a Marx H0 road/ rail set, with H0 slot cars. It had a UP F unit diesel, 3 pole motor with a universal assembly to drive both trucks. The track was folded tinplate on fiber ties. It had a " washboard " quality to it...
Third train set, for my birthday in 1969, I had graduated up to Tyco. Being produced by Mantua at that time, smooth running with a 5 pole motor. They had operating cars. The horn hook couplers worked well on their stuff... good execution. Tyco was a class act....at one time.
Last time I went to the hobby shop about a month ago, I believe they had a Lionel H0 set in the case!Paul
pennytrainsIt really is a shame the market didn't receive Lionel HO as well as it should have. They made, or had made by someone else, a lot of innovative things. I know, no surprise to us right?
pennytrains It really is a shame the market didn't receive Lionel HO as well as it should have. They made, or had made by someone else, a lot of innovative things. I know, no surprise to us right?
It really is a shame the market didn't receive Lionel HO as well as it should have. They made, or had made by someone else, a lot of innovative things. I know, no surprise to us right?
I suspect it was a case of "Too late to the party." Even the power of the Lionel name didn't help. And of course it was the era when the people running Lionel didn't seem to know what to do with the company anyway.
Well, it's been a minute since I made another post to the HO thread... but here I am, back at it again!This time, I'm here to talk track. I believe in one of the photo fun threads somewhere I shared the 0366 Operating Milk Car and its companion, the 0900 Remote Control Operating Platform, which has a built in section of straight track. That said, I don't think I've ever shown any of the other Lionel HO track I own. Today, I shall rectify that injustice! It just so happens, several weeks ago I found two items that have been on my "want" list for a while. That is, an example each of the 0976 Curved Terminal Track and 0988 Curved Track. These two sections are fairly unique as far as I can tell, I don't think anybody else made something quite like them. These track sections seem to have been the standard affair for any HO train set made from 1961 until the end of HO production in 1966. As opposed to your conventional section of 18" radius curved track, which is approximately 9" long... the 0976 and 0988 are a whopping 18" long! These jumbo-sized curves don't seem to be shown or listed in the seperate sale section of the HO catalogs, so I presume the only way to get them was in sets. My goal is ultimately to have at least a full set of these- at twice the length of a normal 18" radius curved section, I need 4 more 0988 curved sections to have a "set's worth" of curves.Lionel did also offer conventionally sized 18" radius curves. These were No. 0989 (the terminal section version was 0975). The 0989 and 0975 were cataloged from the dawn of Lionel HO in 1957, through to the end of HO production. That said, I am inclinded to suspect that the track was not actually made by Lionel until some time between 1959 and 1961. Perhaps someone else has better information sources and can say for sure. The old Greenburg HO guide doesn't entirely say if 1957 track was made by Rivarossi, but it does say that 1958 track was supplied by Atlas.Here's one of my two undamaged sections of 0989 Curved Track:Two obvious ways to tell if the track is made by Lionel, are to look for the product number and Lionel Corperation markings which are molded into the underside of the track. Also note that the sections use copper rail joiners, not brass ones. There are two embossed oval shapes in the base of the joiners that serve to create friction between the joiners and the rails- they seem to work really well, the sections stick together better than any other random HO track sections I've played with (baring those with an interlocking roadbed system). Of course, even without checking, you can spot the 0976 and 0988 right away by their unusual size.
To give you a sense of scale, here's two images comparing the 0989 with the 0988- in the first, I placed a single 0989 above, and a single 0988 below. In the second, I added a second 0989 to demonstrate that two 0989s are equal in length to a single 0988. Odds are, if you have any HO sectional track kicking around, you'll find the curves are of the 9" long, 18" radius variety.Lastly, I present my 0930 30° Crossing. These first joined the HO catalog in 1960, though oddly it is not illustrated in the catalog until 1961. It remained cataloged through the end of HO production.So there you have it! Next time you see a box of free brass track, if you haven't got anything better to do why not consider checking if there's any Lionel in there!I'm still on the lookout for more track, I don't have any of the straights, uncouplers, remote control switches, or other accessory tracks. I have a manual for the remote control switches, at some point I'll be scanning it.Speaking of scanning...A copy of the postwar Lionel HO service manual popped up on eBay! I dropped a bid, we'll see.... I have a feeling someone's going to be willing to pay more than me. If all does go to plan, big if, my hope is to be able to scan it and make those darned pages available for anybody to read so another poor soul doesn't have to scour auctions just to see an exploded diagram of their 0645LTS (I'm dying to know how that darned HO whistle mechanism works! Anyone else?)Wish me luck! I think I need it... big time -Ellie
Speaking of HO, if anyone hasn't done so yet check out my thread on the NYSME, in addtion to Dakman's video of the O gauge layout there's now his video of the HO layout. VERY impressive!
M636-I did a fair bit of reading on Lionel HO, yes it is an advert from when Rivarossi was doing the making. It was actually 1957 when Lionel debuted HO, made by Rivarossi. The FM C-Liner was sold in a few road names to match what was being painted on the O gauge F3s. The models supplied to Lionel were designed for NMRA standard 2-rail DC operation at 0-12v DC. The exact reason Lionel switched manufacturer after only one year seems to have been something regarding how/when Lionel compensated Rivarossi.I've owned one of the Mehano models marketed by AHM, but traded it away to save some cash on buying other things. It ran ok after a service, but was very noisy. Flintlock- thank you very much! I'm very proud of my work on this loco thus far. I'm extremely eager to finish the job entirely, but it's hard to get back to work when all I want to do is watch it run!I think that on a level setup, with broad curves, it could probably haul as much as 20 cars. I'm not 100% certain, it might be pushing it, but if I get the chance you bet I'm going to try! I haven't yet hit 20 pieces of HO Lionel/Flyer/Marx rolling stock, but it seems likely that within the year I may get there. In the meantime I have some Mantua/Tyco, Bachmann and Roco rolling stock kicking around which isn't as interesting to me, but can make the train longer.-Ellie
LeverettrailfanThe 0635 is really noisy, but the gears seem to be the entirety of the cause.
Oh, that's not so bad, in a way it's kind of charming.
Very impressive rebuild Ellie!
Leverettrailfan -Ellie
-Ellie
The adverisement above illustrates material made by Rivarrossi for Lionel, apparently for 1956 only. The locomotives are a Fairbanks Morse C Line A unit and a Southern Pacific Atlantic type.
The Fairbanks Morse dated back to 1952
http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/Cataloghi_pubblicati/Catalogo_1952/Catalogo_1952.htm
Apparently these were three rail AC, probably compatible with Maerklin models from Germany.
I assume that the Lionel models were 12v DC two rail. Note that the illustration shows European hook and loop couplers, at least on the FM unit.
These FM units went on to be manufactured by Mehanoteknika in Slovenia (then part of Yugoslavia) and must have been one of the most produced models of all time.
Some time in the 1990s, (if I recall correctly), I purchased a Proto 1000 model of an FM C-Line unit in Milwaukee Road colours. It cost me $109. I was looking through the dusty corners of the same store and found a pair (power and dummy A unit) of the Mehanoteknika units, on sale for $29. These carried the brand "IHC" but had probably never been near that organisation, having been shipped directly to Australia by organisations unknown.
I think an original Rivarossi model of this type was the first model diesel locomotive I ever saw, some time in the 1950s,, in a shop window along with more familiar O gauge models.
Anyway, I spent the $29 and I now have the Mehano and Proto 1000 models sitting next to eachother. They are both in Milwaukee road colours, although those on the Proto unit look more realistic. (See, I managed not to say "more life-like")...
Considering that the Mehano model had had only minor alterations since 1952, it looked quite reasonable. The main change was to cut away much of the pilot to allow truck mounted horn hook couplers to be fitted, which wasn't much worse than the oversize coupler cover on the original with its strange horizontal slot.
But the Mehano units are a piece of model railroad history and worthy of coas worthy of collection as any other model.
I might talk further about my British OO gauge collection...
It's probably a matter of personal taste more than anything. Good to know there's resources out there, I would like to learn more about Marx and Flyer HO since I have far less in my collection.The big news for today is my 0635 is back from the grave! The pilot broke off during an awkward procedure in which I was modifying the other end of the frame. Use brute force with caution, folks! I didn't think I was being too rough but there's definitely an obvious weak point there. I have a plan to fix it, using a little reinforcement and some epoxy. The motor I bought for the job seens to work as good as I could ever hope for. I had to steal a gear from my 0602, which I've decided needs some severe assistance in getting back in shape. For now it's sidelined, but eventually I want to fully re-gear it. The 0635 is really noisy, but the gears seem to be the entirety of the cause. From what I can tell, it was probably always this noisy, and all that racket is probably enough to convince a casual onlooker that it's all original.Running quality wise, I think the new motor is a clear upgrade from the original. It can move my 10-car Lionel HO consist with ease, and doesn't stall out when I drop it down to slow speeds. It can't crawl quite as good as an Athearn but it certainly can go slower than an original could. All in all feeling really pleased! I need to rebuild the smoke unit again hopefully this is the last time, and I get everything right. For now though, here she is, in action:-Ellie
pennytrainsAnd Doyle's Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1900-1942 covers OO very thoroughly. Strangely, while this book goes into great depth to cover the uber-rare 2 7/8 gauge, something most of us will never see outside of a museum, later volumes (1945-1969 and 1970-2000) ignore HO all together.
Doyle had a lot of assistance from the Train Collectors Association when he put those books together, so the fact that HO's ignored could be an indication of the TCA being "doctrinaire" in the early 2000's when the books were done and dismissing HO altogether. "If it's HO it's not a toy train! Go talk to the NMRA!" Just guessing mind you, although when I visited the TCA museum in Strasburg back in the 90's I don't recall seeing any HO articles at all. Maybe they were there but I missed them.
Anyway, when myself and the board of the VTC gave the OK for HO trains being welcomed there was a bit of grumbling from the "Peanut Gallery" over it. Not much, but some.
Oh yeah, 2 and 7/8th inch scale. I've been going to train shows and train shops for close to 30 years and have NEVER seen any for sale. Strictly museum stuff.
Most of the guides I have contain at least a cursory overview of Lionel OO and HO. Volume 3 of the TM book Lionel A Collector's Guide & History is a prime example. This Standard Gauge tome has 5 pages on OO and 4 covering HO.
The Obrien's series of Collecting Toy Trains books, of which I own copies of volumes 3, 4 and 5, all have extensive listings for Lionel, Marx and American Flyer HO production. Although in the older editions they're mixed in with the Standard and O Gauge listings rather than having their own chapters.
And Doyle's Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1900-1942 covers OO very thoroughly. Strangely, while this book goes into great depth to cover the uber-rare 2 7/8 gauge, something most of us will never see outside of a museum, later volumes (1945-1969 and 1970-2000) ignore HO all together.
Ellie, whether HO trains are toy trains/scale models are concerned is a non-issue for the club I belong to, the Virginia Train Collectors Association. Since HO's been around since the late 1930's we look at them this way:
Do people collect them? Yes.
Do they bring those collectors pleasure and joy? Yes.
Does it matter whether they're toys or models? No.
End of story.
If we have a meeting program of "Bring in your models of..." no-ones going to moan if anyone brings in HO articles, or anything in any scale for that matter. It's a big tent as far as we're concerned.
Flintlock- I wouldn't be too surprised if the shell is plastic, I think they did make some all diecast but I'd rather plastic- My AF 343 S gauge loco gives me operational headaches with floor layouts because the topheavy diecast tender shell often rocks wildly enough to life the whees up of one rail- it took me a while to figure out why the reverse unit kept tripping without warning despite the wheels & pickup shoes being clean and wiring good. Becky, I'd certainly agree.I think the trouble with HO is the intersection between toy trains and scale models becomes more blurred- many HO trains which really feel more like toys than models- but then there's O and S gauge trains that are true to scale, and realistic. A 3rd-Rail brass model won't meet any hesitance here, but an HO train is something that doesn't seem to come up much. It raises the question "what exactly is the criterea for a classic toy train?" and I think, innevitably, there would still be trains that did not meet all those criterea, which still have a place in the CTT forums. And there would be trains that fit all the critera, yet nobody really considers them classic toy trains or worth discussing here. I thought that, at the risk of dipping into this gray area, it would be fun and interesting to discuss collecting HO.That said, could even the most stern, anti-HO enthusiast, who only ever collected in O, S, and Standard, take a good look at something like a Lionel 0365 Minuteman Missile Launcher car and tell you it "didn't count" even though it's big brother does (Not my image)-Ellie
HO may not be as popular over here, but there are some true classics out there!
Ellie, I'll have to look at that tender again, I'm pretty sure the shell's plastic. Aside from cleaning the wheels I didn't look too closely at the tender since I was directing my efforts towards the engine. The tender is a bit of a flyweight compared to the engine.
Flintlock, I forgot to note but you probably already figured out for yourself when you checked out the guts of your switcher, but the steamers have 5-pole motors too- just a detail I realize I missed. I don't think these little locos are considered rare or valuable, but are they good? Absolutely!The tender should have a diecast chassis- the 'ground wire' coming from the motor is screwed to it, using the same screw that holds the drawbar to the tender. The frame grounds to the trucks- unlike on an American Flyer engine, you want all the metal wheels on the same side- it's good not to mix them up Is the tender shell plastic or metal? It's possible that it could be slightly topheavy if the shell's metal. Either way adding weight low down in the tender sounds like the way to fix it. My 2-6-2's tender was having a hard time grounding, I made some simple brass wipers for the axles to help improve continuity to the frame and that fixed it.Fife- I've seen a few of those videos, absolutely fantastic! Just the sorta thing that would have blown my mind if I ever got to play with one as a kid. Faller made some things with similar concept, but German! They lean more towards realism- one of my favorite things I saw is a Märklin(?) freight car and some loading platforms that allow you to drive a vehicle onto the freight car, then the train can take it away... bring it back to a loading platform, and you can drive the vehicle right back off!Becky, older Mantua/Tyco was very well made- starting around the late '60s or early-mid '70s, the tyco brand became mainly cheap stuff. Locomotives equipped with 'Power-Torque' drives need a lot of TLC to run well, but can usually be brought back to life if you're thorough with them. They're definitely a step down from the older 5-pole worm drive motors, but personally I like them better than the drives Life-Like and Bachmann were using in their (budget) diesels. Oh, and Don got the pronounciation right, at least if the TCA Western article can be trusted!Glad to know I'm still on good graces with some CTTers, I'll still be treading carefully but it's good to know what you can get away with PS- I won an auction I figured someone would quickly outbid me on... a few more cars to add to the Lionel HO consist. I mainly wanted it for the 0864 DSSA boxcar and 0850 missile car included, but there were two red MC gondolas as well. Looking at the pictures, I should have a duplicate for both my 0865-250 and 0865-375.I'm not unhappy, the former even has it's original load and box with insert... still. I can't help but think "Lionel made this car in 5 different color combinations... 5! And three of them seem to be common as dirt! Yet all you have are red ones!"There's no shortage of blue and gray gondolas on eBay, ever. They just aren't worth paying $15-30 for! My pristine 0865-375 (complete with undamaged mallory x2f couplers) cost me $6...-Ellie
Buzzr TV has been running really old episodes of the Price is Right on Saturday mornings. This is the original format version of the show as it ran in prime time hosted by Bill Cullen from the late 50's into the early 60's. This was a once a week version that had prizes of a more valuable nature than the regular daytime Price is Right. Several times I've seen a Mantua/Tyco train set as one of the prizes up for bid on the show. (I think I've seen a switcher set at least once and a Western set pulled by the Jupiter several times.) So, based on where the trains appeared I'd say they thought they were of high quality.
By the way, Don Pardo pronounced it Man Choo Uh. Up here in Ohio we have a town called Man Away, spelled the same.
I agree with Flint. And besides, some of my favorite YouTube videos are of TYCO trains and US1 Truckin'.
Hi Ellie!
I took a look at that HO engine an hour or so ago and it's a Mantua, the name's molded into the tender frame, so there's no mistaking it. and you nailed it, there IS a wire from the tender to the motor. Very substantial under the hood with a worm drive, I'm very impressed. I am going to ballast the tender so it tracks better, it's a bit on the light side.
Since I've never heard of an HO engine being AC I initially tested the motor with a DC transformer so no problem there. Yeah, after cleaning the innards, wheels, and re-lubing it ran just fine. And don't worry, I have NO intention of disassembling the motor. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
I won't be running it much anyway, probably just once a year as part of a Christmas table display. Now to get some quality track!
Oh, don't worry about being banished to a Tyco or "MR" Forum, as far as I'm concerned "Classic Toy Trains" means just that, toy trains, size is immaterial!
Flintlock- nice find! If it is a Mantua, they're definitely well made. One easy way to rule things out is that Mantua/Tyco steamers use the tender to pick up half their power, and a wire runs from the tender frame to one side of the loco's motor. I'm pretty sure most/a lot of these were sold as unpainted kits, so you might not find a D&H 0-4-0 listed in any Manuta/Tyco catalog.I have a few of their diesels that have wound up in my hands through various means, usually for free or next to nothing. Mantua/Tyco diesel motor trucks are a pain to service if you need to remove old lube, since they're riveted together, BUT they run really nicely when cleaned and lubed. They remind me a lot of the American Flyer ALCo/Geep drive, with the motor truck and dual worm gears. 5 Pole motor too, something Lionel, Flyer and Marx never put in their stuff. Tyco's later 'Power-Torque' drive system is a far cry from it.Did you know that Gilbert's HO fronteirsman set was supplied by Mantua Tyco? Both the cars and locomotive were uniquely decorated for Gilbert to mimic the larger S gauge set, and they're quite hard to find. Keep your eyes peeled at the shows...Most vintage HO uses DC open frame motors, it wasn't just the O gauge AC stuff. Just be careful, I've learned that due to the nature of them, most of these vintage DC motors can have their permenant magnetic fields damaged by removing the armature. So, only do it as a last resort- I've played around a little bit with replacing weak Lionel HO magnets with Neodymium magnets, I think it is possible to save a motor this way. I think so far one of my favorite HO mechanisms is probably the Athearn 'blue box' drive- it's very well designed with a level of servicability in mind. I believe a lot of folks use it to repower Lionel postwar HO geeps since they're a million miles more reliable, and the original chassis has ALCo trucks Fife-I feel nervous every time I post in this thread, for fear that one day I'll have crossed the line and be banished to the Tyco forums! Not saying they're a bad place to be but I swear I'm a toy train person...-Ellie
Can't help but think that somewhere my ol' buddy Banks is smiling.
You know, I should come clean and admit I bought an HO engine at the last train show. I was looking for an older piece with hook couplers to pull some Dairylea milk cars I inherited from my late brother-in-law and found one, a 0-4-0 steam switcher that should fill the bill nicely. It's a heavy little beast, the seller thinks its a Mantua product, I'll have to look it over with a magnifying glass to see what I can find. I had to do a little cleaning and lubing to wake it up, now it runs fine. NOT what I'm used to, by any means!
I was suprised to find an open-frame motor in there and wondered if it was AC, but no, it's DC all right. Interestingly, it's marked "Delaware & Hudson" on the tender.
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