Thanks again... Becky, I have 2 so far. 98 to go, I guess they don't seem to be terribly rare or valuable. Both of mine are the first version, the 0847, with sprung metal trucks and steel wheels. Around 1963 when Lionel switched over from sprung trucks to 'solid frame' trucks, the number changed to 0847-100. Aside from the number on the box, nothing changed except the type of truck. Wayne... you make a fair point, it was a missed opportunity. I was in a hurry to get some sort of video up so I could share it- didn't even set up the tripod and camera, instead I used my "too smart for its own good" phone to shoot the video, then uploaded it without any editing.I did recently discover my phone can do something my video camera can't- take slo-mo video... I'll try my best not to disappoint when the 'splodin boxcars and the missile car next return to the stage. I'll politely ask my cats for their best screeches, but no promises they'll agree to join my production team Today I started shooting some nice video of a few more of the HO pieces that didn't make it into my last shooting session. I got the 0636 squared away, as well as the noisy gear-driven 0594. Tomorrow I plan to start by getting some proper footage of the 0059, I'll try to squeeze in some "kaboom" action if I can get it to play nice for the camera. I dug out my old 'handi-cam' and miraculously, despite being nearly 10 years old it's working fine, and I get much better video than I was getting with the camera I used last time.Stay tuned, I guess!-Ellie
"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"
LeverettrailfanYes, originally it would have been bright white.
Well, you did a great job cleaning it up Ellie, now instead of filthy it looks weathered, like it's been in service for a while.
Great demonstration video of the missile launch. Personally I think I'd have added a sound effect like a cat screech after the missile went out of screen but that's just me, I've got a warped sense of humor.
Leverettrailfan I've shown a working 0850 missile car (in the short 0059 video), I should probably start thinking about shooting a 'target practice' video with the 0847 exploding boxcars! Due to their small size, they're tougher targets to hit than the O gauge ones -Ellie
I've shown a working 0850 missile car (in the short 0059 video), I should probably start thinking about shooting a 'target practice' video with the 0847 exploding boxcars! Due to their small size, they're tougher targets to hit than the O gauge ones -Ellie
Not if you have a hundred of them....
Same me, different spelling!
jklein007Hello, I am trying to acquire the valve of my grandpa's old train set. He has passed away and I would like to see if these are of any value? Please get back to me when you can.
Thanks all! The 0635 has somewhat noisy gearing but runs very smooth thanks to a powerful 24v, 6-pole motor. It has better low(er) speed performance than an original motor could have ever provided, and draws much less current. I can leave it running continuously for longer without fear of the motor overheating, an ever-present concern I have with the stock Lionel HO motors...Now I've shown a working 0850 missile car (in the short 0059 video), I should probably start thinking about shooting a 'target practice' video with the 0847 exploding boxcars! Due to their small size, they're tougher targets to hit than the O gauge ones -Ellie
Hello,
Wow that Minute Man Switcher sure cleaned up nicely!The missle launch was cool Too!
Running magnificently!
It's taken me a while to get this one edited and up online, especially since it ended up being so short. But none the less, here's a little video of the re-powered 0635 smokin' pacific pulling her original set, 5757. My very first Lionel HO- when I got these, I'd never seen a postwar Lionel HO train before. I really only wanted them as a curiosity at first, now look what they've done to me
-Ellie
Yes, originally it would have been bright white.A significant number of Lionel HO locomotives and rolling stock were painted, rather than simply being molded in a fitting color. As far as I know, all the huskies were painted. As I understand it, the hydrogen peroxide method is for reversing the yellowing of plastic, so it probably wouldn't fix paint.I am happy to report that I managed to get the 0059 95% done- it runs, the headlight works, and the shell is no longer covered in dirt. It actually looks pretty good, all it needed was a good bath and some gentle scrubbing (had to scrub harder in some spots). I think I may have missed a spot or two, but when you compare the 'before' and 'after', it's hard to complain too much.Unfortunately, I don't think there's any bringing back the original crisp whiteness of the paint, but I don't mind too much- it was a toy, and it did get played with. It looks pretty good to my eyes, so I'm satisfied!I also took a short video of it with an 0850 Missile Car.I'd love to have a few of the 0365 Minuteman cars to go with, but eBay prices are way too high for me.
I assume it was bright white when new,how will you clean it up? I have heard of placing items in a container of Hydrogen peroxide and shing a UV light on it and that the results are great!
New addition to the "Mini-Lionel" family, the 0059 Minuteman. One of the rarer Husky switchers... a seperate sale exclusive cataloged in 1962 only. Even in good condition, they're still much less pricey than an original O gauge 59. Mine is in pretty rough shape, but I'm hoping all the grime will come off with some soapy lukewarm water and a toothbrush.Naturally, I will post pictures and possibly videos, as progress is made with this little locomotive.-Ellie
Sometimes you're browsing around online, and you stumble into something that really makes you pick at your brain.To date, I only own 4 MPC-era Lionel HO cars. Of those, at least 3 of them seem to use entirely different tooling to postwar Lionel. I remember trying to do a little research, and it looks like they were made by the same factory that Bachmann was using at the time, and the cars are near identical to Bachmann models. And I did know that Roco was making Lionel HO cars at some point. But then I stumbled upon some oddities (to me), which have brought me to the conclusion that at least SOME MPC Lionel HO items were made using modified postwar tooling. And now that I've seen them, I will have to own a few of these cars.It seems like there were MPC boxcars that use modified tooling for the 0874 boxcar, and the stock cars also may be made using modified tooling. The easiest giveaway though, is hopper cars. I have a Lionel MPC ho Hopper car- decorated for CPR. But it looks completely different from the 0836 quad hoppers of the postwar era, which for some reason Lionel only ever offered lettered for the Alaska RR. Well, it seems like at least at some point, Lionel MPC produced quad hoppers using modified postwar tooling. So far I have only found pictures of two road names- Burlington Northern, and Rio Grande. Some rivet columns seem to have been eradicated to make printing easier, and the detail on the hatches has been removed. Here's a few pix I stole from various eBay listings- note that the cars I saved images of use postwar HO style chassis- at some point they changed to a different chassis, I'm wondering if this is when they started switching over to roco.Boxcar:Stock Car:Hopper:I'm very intruiged, going to have to keep an eye out for these. I realize now, that my 5-8419 Great Northern caboose may also be one of these items. Aside from the coupler pockets, and end rails, everything on it seems very suspiciously similar to the postwar caboose. All very interesting...-Ellie
You're probably right, Becky. Lionel did something interesting with the HO trestle set, instead of your normal Lionel 110, where there are two of every size bent, the 0110 HO set has 4. Then there's a set of little shims. Every other trestle bent is shimmed, and I think each full length curve or straight needs to be supported by two strestle bents. Metal clips are used to hold the track down to the bents.The largest size bent is designed with some locating pockets to hold the 0110-18 trestle bridge which is included in the set. Lionel also used this bridge as the load for the 6825 flat car.That's all the stuff I've gleaned off of web surfing, unfortunately nothing so far as how tall these are. I'm going to be on the hunt for a complete 0110 at a reasonable price.Today a package arrived from a friend- he sent me some cars he had picked up for me at a show that I was unfortunately unable to attend this fall. He had spotted some Lionel HO boxes and bought them- unfortunately one of the boxes held a Revell caboose, not a Lionel car, but I was very delighted to recieve the cars- and the boxes were exciting too. I now have a third (or is it my fourth?) Log Car, this one is the later type with solid frame trucks. I also now have my second red Alaska RR hopper car. It has all the same features of my other hopper- unpainted red body, white heat stamped lettering, and solid frame trucks. Lastly, I have my first Lionel HO work caboose- the 0819-275 C&O. It was also the only car in its original box & insert. Now I need an 0564 C&O ALCo to match it The boxes were just as exciting to me as the cars, as it turns out. The least interesting box was a badly injured 0300 & insert- no car or manual, and I already have a boxed 0300, but still cool. The box that the Log Car was in had the original number blanked over with a plain label at each end, and a handwritten label on top of that on one end. Using a bright flash light to try to get a look at what was under the label, I can say with absolute confidence that this box was supposed to contain an 0873 Rodeo Car (which looks exactly like the O gauge 6473). Unfortunately, no insert. The last box is the one I'm most excited about perhaps- a complete 0850 box, with the correct insert- and the original instruction manual tucked inside! I wasted no time putting my 0850 inside it.I will have to take and post pictures if I have time tomorrow, I'm rather excited!Lastly for this update, I finally managed to (sort of) repair my 0594 Santa Fe GP9. It runs... awful. At least compared to all my other Lionel HO engines. I believe that betwen the noisy gearing, the undersized motor, and the improvised transmission I had to create for it, there's not a lot I can do. I still am left wondering why my 0594 doesn't have the "correct" motor configuration inside. Weird transitional piece? Your guess is as good as mine.-Ellie
Based on how the O Gauge trestles are, I'd guess that Lionel went with the "absolutely necessary" method for providing clearance.
Becky, I was surprised at myself for how long it took me to register that detail about the elevated loop. The first thing that jumped out to me, funny enough, was the curve in the foreground of the picture, between the 0145 Contactor Track and the nearest switch to the front of the layout. It looks much shorter in the picture, than the track plan.I also noticed how the roads didn't follow the same alignment- and how the picture doesn't include the 0919 Uncoupler Re-Railer. I kept seeing the oval shape, then the circle, and then it hit me- hey wait a minute, those two don't match!If you look carefully, the picture doesn't even seem to have actual turnouts in the foreground. Note the distinct lack of a frog on any of the visible turnouts. Maybe it was simply a mock up? But then why does the D-0200 include an 0214 Girder Bridge, if it doesn't have a spot to go on the track plan?In the end, I have finished the track aspect of plotting out the D-0200. Within XTrackCAD, there is no "Lionel HO" track. But Atlas Code 100 snap-track comes in almost all the same flavors Lionel HO did. Currently, it's just basic track, and an aproximate outline of the 0114 Engine House w/horn.While you can't visually see it, the inner loop is elevated 4" above the tabletop. I actually have no idea how tall the "L" size trestle piers are, since I don't own either an 0110 or 0111 trestle set, complete or incomplete. I just had a guess at it It was certainly clear that 15" radius was used for this elevated line, but what was less clear, is the outer loop. If you were to only use 18" curves for the outer loop, as I have discovered, it just doesn't work. So instead, a few 15" curves were used to make everything come together.The next steps will be to plot out all the operating accessories (what few there are), special track sections, and mark out what all the different sections are so somebody else doesn't have to stare at it, trying to tell all the 15" and 18" radius curves apart.I still want to figure out a way to model one of the combo Super O and HO, or O27 and HO layouts. I was thinking maybe I can create them as seperate layouts, and then overlay them in some image editing software for the finishing touches. But goodness, one project at a time...-Ellie
The plan shows an elevated circle but the photo clearly shows an oval. I'd assume the circle uses the 15" radius curves mentioned on the list so I think you're right that the table level uses 18" radius. I wonder if the photo is of a 5 by 7?
I downloaded a track planning program called XTrackCAD to try and do some layout planning. I went with it because it seemed to be the only free program that I could run with my laptop. I'm still figuring it out slowly, and I decided that it would be a great idea to try to draw out a Lionel postwar HO dealer display layout- I'd like draw one of the combined HO and O dealer layouts, but I'm not sure you can do multiple scales with XTrackCAD. Anyhow, I opted to try the D-0200 since I found images of a flyer for it, which shows a track plan, and lists the components. Problem is, it doesn't tell you where each kind of sectional track goes on the plan, so I've had to guess. And it's become increasingly clear that some aspects of the track plan simply don't match up with what's shown in the picture of the D-0200:You can't clearly tell the lengths of partial segments, and if you assume that all the curves of the outer loop are normal 18" radius curves, partial segments are all 6", and full straights are all 9", well... it simply doesn't line up, or even fit within the confines of a 4' by 6' layout.It appears unlikely I can accurately portray the layout accurately by following the track plan and sticking to the specified quantities of sectional track, so I think what I'll do is play around with various ways to at least get the outer loop looking like it does in the picture.-Ellie
It was really more of a "don't buy German made products" thing than anything else. (Kauft nichts bei Deutscher!)
However, Standard Gauge was really created entirely by accident. Lionel was trying to break into the 1 Gauge market to compete with Ives and measured the Gauge the wrong way. To save face Cowen started marketing his track as Standard to make competitor's products sound inferior. Flyer and Dorfan made compatible equipment in "Wide Gauge" and Ives used "2 1/4 inch Gauge" instead of infringing on Lionel's now copyrighted term.
Vintagesteamer Lionel sold the world on std gauge which was anything BUT standard. It was a marketing ploy to lock out the gauge one builders in Germany and such and it worked.
Well, the Royal Navy's blockade of the North Sea during World War One helped a bit too, nothing was getting out of Kaiser Bill's Germany! Or getting in for that matter.
philo426Did you notice how they elongated the #68 inspection car to make it look long and rakish when the actual model was not even close!
Yeah- that illustration always looks funny to me. The catalog illustration for the HO executive Inspection care is a lot more accurate in terms of proportions. In my 1963 accessories catalog, there's a very fun, highly innacurate depiction of the 65 handcar. I assme the illustration depicts a prototype for the model.Ok, I implied I was done- but I'm not done! This isn't directly liked to Lionel, but also it kind of is. The era of Lionel HO I'm most interested in, where Lionel actually made their own stuff, was kicked off by adapting tooling originally belonging to John English, aka HObbyline. I happened to find a 1957 ad for John English kits, which is worth sharing I think.The thing that makes this ad interesting, is that many of the depicted items are models that Lionel incorperated into its in-house HO production for 1959. The hopper, gondola, boxcar, and tank car were all eventually added to the HO line. The hopper cars seem to have exclusively been offered lettered for the Alaska RR, and the gondolas exclusively for the Michigan Central. The boxcar would be the base for the 0864 series from 1959 onwards, as well as the 0847 exploding boxcar. The tank car also recieved a few liveries. As far as locomotives, the 'steam switcher with tender' was the basis for Lionel's 0602, 0642, and 0643 switchers. The 'tank locomotive' was adapted into Lionel's 0605 switcher.Unfortunately, Lionel didn't see enough of a need for a mighty HO scale berkshire in their product line, but the HObbyline Berkshire's tender became the basis for Lionel's HO whistle tenders.Just imagine how cool it would have been if they did make an HO Lionel berkshire in the postwar years. It would no doubt have come with all the features of the highest-end steamers, and had enough weight to pull a few stumps if they fitted it with the same super-sized motor used in the Helic drive diesels.Of course, now you can buy a modern HO scale Lionel berkshire, but me? I'm a pre and postwar person. A little MPC here and there. But I just don't really do the modern stuff. Plus, have you seen the price tag? I'll stick to vintage.-Ellie
You wouldn't see much after WWII as Lionel had dropped OO from the line and was only concentrating on O gauge. Shame, it would have been really neat to see what came out in O gauge during the postwar era in OO. It fun to dream what could have been. Lionel sold the world on std gauge which was anything BUT standard. It was a marketing ploy to lock out the gauge one builders in Germany and such and it worked. Had they put the full might of the company behind OO early on, even before the war, they might have changed the fabric of model railroading we know today.
Did you notice how they elongated the #68 inspection car to make it look long and rakish when the actual model was not even close!
Fun seeing the whole page spread of OO. My 1945 Model Railroad Planning book only has a half hearted attempt at selling the new model railroader on OO- there is an attractive two page spread showing the O and OO scale hudsons side by side, but other than that and the odd mention, OO has no presence in the book- it sends a very mixed message. They must have already been thinking about dropping the line after the war, with the lack of effort made to show the new hobbyist exactly what they could do with OO. I don't think the booklet has a single OO track plan, or even a picture of an OO layout.I scanned these today. Two full-page ads featured in Model Railroader Magazine. I opted to go with cleaning up the images like the previous scan, if anyone thinks I should go back to untouched scans, let me know.The first is an ad from December of 1958- just 2 months after the Lionel HO line debuted. You would think Lionel would be working hard to promote their highly detailed, scale models that Rivarossi was supplying... and yet, not even a fifth of the page is devoted to advertising the HO line.None the less, it was a lot better than the tiny little boxes that Lionel usually used to advertise their trains in MRR at this time.The last full-page Lionel ad I saved from an MRR issue is from January of 1959. By this point, the latest and greatest was Lionel's 1958 line, which was made up of some left over 1957 Rivarossi inventory, and new items from Athearn. So of course, wouldn't Lionel want to promote the classy new models they were selling, many of which were perfect mini-versions of their popular O and O-27 products?It seems once again, the Lionel marketing department decided that what the readers of Model Railroader needed to see, wasn't HO- no, what those readers really wanted was an O gauge 54 Ballast Tamper or a 175 Rocket Launcher.Don't get me wrong, I'd treasure a 54 or a 175 just as much as the next toy train collector. But gee, no wonder Lionel was having a hard time selling their HO. Companies like Mantua/Tyco, Athearn, Gilbert, and Fleichmann were putting full page ads in every issue. And where was Lionel? In a little tiny square, usually, and if you didn't blink and miss it, the square would encourage you to go check out the complete Lionel HO product line. Perhaps I'm being a little harsh, but it feels like they weren't even trying to sell HO on the scale modeling community, which should have been the whole reason they started selling HO.But it was also far from the only marketing disaster Lionel was making in the late '50s!-Ellie
Vintagesteamer Here is a OO sales ad.
Here is a OO sales ad.
It appears that the two "scale" locomotives are equivalent to the O Gauge 700E and the other two have been simplified in the same way as the 763, in that the valve rod and combination lever have been deleted. At least the 002 and 004 had the same scale tender unlike the 763 which had a toylike Vanderbilt tender.
Peter
Trying to get back to doing a little scanning... here is Lionel's full-page HO ad from the October 1957 issue of Model Railroader Magazine. The original scan I made is way too big for posting here, so here is a 'reduced size' scan:Additionally, I decided to see if I could put my rudimentary image editing skills to use and clean the image up in gimp. It honestly didn't turn out all that bad:I'll leave you to decide which version you like better.Of course, the illustration at the top of the page was one that Lionel got a fair bit of use out of, even after they stopped marketing items made by Rivarossi.-Ellie
Here are some pics of a OO mailer that Lionel sent out to folks on their mailing list. Also a short pic of my 1938 first year 0080 starter set running around my big loop. I have its small loop of original Lionel track on the upper level but its not operational yet.
Just found this ad while surfin' the web- taking the theme of the "Father and Son" set to the next level, a whole page of "side by side" offerings:It's interesting how the prices of the O gauge items are almost all very close in price to the HO items- there's less of a price difference than you'd expect. And the banjo signals are exactly the same regardless of which size you bought.The biggest outlier is clearly the Minuteman switcher... half the size, less than half the price!It would be fun to try and create an alternative Father and Son outfit, following the example of the ad. Personally I don't think I'm anywhere near close to having all the components of either consist, in either scale.-Ellie
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