Perth.
Back in QLD. I had a scuba lesson here. First and only time. The buoyancy belt was mis adjusted, and I kept floating up like a cork. They re adjusted it, and I sank like a rock !
Around Brisbane.
Queensland style houses are built up off the ground to allow cool air to flow underneath. Heat and humidity in January, a cool shower may not help !
When I took the train from Brisbane to Melbourne, I nearly missed it. Got down there early and went to a pub across the street with some people I met. " You've got plenty of time". When I tried to board my train, I found out the suburban station was on one side, intercity on the other. Had to run with 2 suitcases, but still made my train.
Kids, don't try this at home. I hear these guys can get mean, so be careful. I think this was at a zoo. Kangaroos are plentiful, one ran across the pool deck at our campsite in Airlie Beach.
Postwar Paul Perth.
Postwar Paul
Peter, thank you again. It's deceiving because it feels like yesterday, but I know it wasn't. The prices when I look at the web sites. I remember the scuba lesson was only $30. I remember traveling around very economically at that time. The prices I see posted on the web for these fun activities start at $100 and go up. Its just like here: everything has gone sky high. I remember the names " Airlie Beach", "Shute Harbor", and we took a ferry out and camped on "Grand Keppel Island".
I wanted to comment on the C-17 at Townsville. This is a 4-8-0 wheel arrangement, which I have seen pictures of a few examples in Australia. I believe this is called a " Mastodon " type.This is extremely unusual in the U.S., the only example I am aware of is on the N & W. we had many 4-6-0's, and countless 2-8-0's. I believe the Pennsy had 3,300 2-8-0's on the roster at one point. But Mastodon 's ? Only the N&W.
Paul
Dollars were worth more then, and a lot of people had more of them than we have now... The 1980s were at the end of the period of growth and confidence that started in the 1950s. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989 was probably the end of that time.
The resorts are still there, and not relatively more expensive. But money is harder to get and faster to go these days. In the 1980s I stayed at Airlie Beach and took a day cruise on a yacht and went out to the reef in a glass bottomed boat, but I confined myself to snorkelling rather than scuba.
These days I just go to Bowen, not much further North and look at the coal trains running to Abbott Point.
There is a book on 4-8-0 locomotives by someone called "D Rock Carling" if I recall correctly, published by David and Charles in the 1960s. I have a copy somewhere.
There were quite a few 4-8-0s in the USA in the 1890s, and I think Southern Pacific had a few for light lines up to the end of steam.
There were very similar 4-8-0s in New Zealand and in Western Australia, B class in NZ and F class in WA, both due to the same engineer T.F. Rotherham, who moved from NZ to WA.
South Australia had quite a few on their narrow gauge, Class T, and Queensland had C16, C18 and C19 classes as well as the C17. The C16 was an older version of the C17 but the C18 and C19 were heavy passenger locomotives.
There is a C17 in steam on a preserved line near Brisbane , the Rosewood Railway, and a former Commonwealth Railways narrow gauge 4-8-0, NM 25, runs between Port augusta and Quorn at weekends. It is a copy of the C 17.
4-8-0s were very common in Norway and Argentina, in Argentina mainly on the 5'6" broad gauge.
The leading truck was better on light track with lots of curves than the normal lead truck on a 2-8-0. One was proposed for New South Wales, but hundreds of 2-8-0s were built instead.
Peter
Thank you for your reply, Peter. I mentioned the 4-8-0's because they stand out in my eye. I have noticed many in my books on Australian railroads, and have made a mental note that they were common in Australia, more so than in the U.S. It probably goes back to adapting to the conditions, and what would be best suited. Designers have many factors to take into consideration, including axle loading,curvature,rail size,and so on. Also, firebox size, type of coal, and many other factors are part of the equation.
One story that I read somewhere is that the "American Standard" 4-4-0 was an answer to rough track conditions in the early U.S. The four wheel lead truck would guide the engine into curves, and spread some of the weight. In contrast, the early British railways were well laid, and an 0-6-0 with no lead or trailing trucks would track just fine. They brought the "John Bull" over to America, but then added a two wheel lead truck. And with the axle loading equation, they would always try to spread the weight over more wheels. It is adapting to the conditions at hand. The 4-8-0's just stood out to me because we rarely see this wheel arrangement. Not good or bad, just something I don't see very often.
Another example of adaptation would be the Anthracite roads in the eastern U.S. The large "Wooten" firebox to burn anthracite coal, forced many engines to be designed as "Camelbacks". And S.P.'s "cab forwards", to put the engine crew out in front when running through Sierra snow sheds. A custom design to deal with unique conditions.
Postwar Paul Queens town, N.Z.
Queens town, N.Z.
If I painted snow capped mountains on a backdrop for my model railway that had a straight accross snowline people would say it wasn't realistic. But now I've seen a photo that proves otherwise!
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
It is amazing,isn't it ? The snow begins just at that altitude. Queens town is a beautiful place. I loved Earnslaw, the lake steamship.
In New Zealand, the Northern island has some geothermal activity, with geysers and such. The Southern island is very mountainous. Queens town is in the south. Also, the South Island is so far south, it was the starting point for many expeditions to the South Pole. I went to a museum in Christchurch that talked about this fact.
I love the street Railways. I'm happy I was able to ride the classic " Melbourne Trams", back in the day. Here's one last picture for your enjoyment. It's a postcard from Ferrymead in Christchurch.
I thought I'd add a bit more about 4-8-0 locomotives.
The last new 4-8-0s in North America were built by Baldwin, the first in 1924 following 24 Pacifics with generally similar dimensions, for the National of Mexico. The additional adhesion of the 4-8-0 allowed larger cylinders and a higher boiler pressure in a locomotive only slightly heavier.
In France a number of Pacifics were rebuilt into 4-8-0s for increased power from 1937 until the early1940s.
Postwar Paul I love the street Railways. I'm happy I was able to ride the classic " Melbourne Trams", back in the day. Here's one last picture for your enjoyment. It's a postcard from Ferrymead in Christchurch.
If I remember what I read correctly, the Central Pacific tried a 4-10-0 locomotive in the 1870's. Called "El Gobonodor" it was too much, too soon, and the crews that ran it said "All Hell couldn't keep it hot."
Well, steam locomotive builders were still kind of making it up as they went along in those days. You learned from your mistakes and just moved on.
M636C Postwar Paul I love the street Railways. I'm happy I was able to ride the classic " Melbourne Trams", back in the day. Here's one last picture for your enjoyment. It's a postcard from Ferrymead in Christchurch. The Christchurch car illustrated is of the type described as a "drop centre", with passengers entering through the open centre of the car which had crosswise seats. In this case, you could enter at the ends as well. Christchurch introduced this design to the South Pacific, although cars to this design had run earlier in San Francisco. Although the earliest Melbourne cars had end entrances, the standard cars did not. The earliest standard Melbourne cars had open centres, but this was soon altered to three doorways, and after 1938, two sliding doors. Christchurch had a working (tourist) tramway in the centre of the old city until the recent earthquake, which used a number of ex Melbourne cars along with a couple of original cars. I think the cars are OK but the extent of damage in the old city meant that services no longer ran. I don't know the current status. Peter
I was in Ch'ch before the tourist line was running, but would love to have seen it !
M636C I thought I'd add a bit more about 4-8-0 locomotives. The last new 4-8-0s in North America were built by Baldwin, the first in 1924 following 24 Pacifics with generally similar dimensions, for the National of Mexico. The additional adhesion of the 4-8-0 allowed larger cylinders and a higher boiler pressure in a locomotive only slightly heavier. In France a number of Pacifics were rebuilt into 4-8-0s for increased power from 1937 until the early1940s. Peter
Firelock76 If I remember what I read correctly, the Central Pacific tried a 4-10-0 locomotive in the 1870's. Called "El Gobonodor" it was too much, too soon, and the crews that ran it said "All Hell couldn't keep it hot." Well, steam locomotive builders were still kind of making it up as they went along in those days. You learned from your mistakes and just moved on.
Postwar Paul I guess the Mastodon type was more common than I realized. I was just looking at one of my books the other day, and they were showing a French ( I believe Nord ) Pacific being converted into a 4-8-0. Paul
A couple of corrections to the above....
4521 was rebuilt in August 1932, not October 1931. It appears the design process began in 1931.
The locomotive used on the Nord trials was 4707. It had a cut down cab, but that was for subsequent trials on the Etat system to Cherbourg. It did work extensive trials for the Nord, who had 35000s rebuilt as 3700 series Pacifics instead of the 4-8-0s.
I should know that the Nord clearances allowed the original cab profile since I have the Rivarossi model in Nord brown...
M636C Postwar Paul I guess the Mastodon type was more common than I realized. I was just looking at one of my books the other day, and they were showing a French ( I believe Nord ) Pacific being converted into a 4-8-0. Paul All the rebuilds to 4-8-0 in France were from Paris Orleans locomotives of the 4501 to 4570 series. These were built from July 1907 and were the first Pacific type in Europe. 4541 to 4570 were built by Alco in 1908. Given the dates, all of these were built without superheaters. A further batch, 4571 to 4600, were built with superheaters. These locomotives had 1850 mm driving wheels. Another group of locomotives built with 1950mm coupled wheels were numbered 3501 to 3589, of which the first 20 lacked superheaters. These were all conventional De Glehn Du Bosquet compound locomotives which were relatively inefficient users of steam. The worst performer among these was superheated locomotive 3566, which was rebuilt by Andre Chapelon in November 1929 as the first of a number of locomotives known for their power and economy. In 1931, Chapelon rebuilt locomotive 4521 as a 4-8-0 for the main line to Toulouse which needed more power and adhesion than could be provided by a Pacific, even one with Chapelon's improvements. These Pacifics had what the French call a "trapezoidal" grate, narrow at the front to fit between the trailing coupled wheels, while it angled out to a wide grate at the rear above the trailing truck. This wasn't suitable for a 4-8-0 and was replaced by a long narrow grate based on the designs of that on the Nord 3.1200 "super Pacifics". A further eleven 4700s were rebuilt from saturated 4500s by the Paris Orleans and one of these was tested on the Nord, which required the cab roof being cut down to fit the Nord clearances. The Nord settled on the larger wheeled rebuilt 3500 series, the 3700s and even had a number built new in the late 1930s. Following the formation of the SNCF, 25 further saturated 4500s were rebuilt as a modified 4-8-0 class 240 P (P was a letter used for SNCF standard locomotives). I think these were largely used on the PLM but replaced by the post war 241P Mountains, based on the PLM 241C1. Peter
Also, the picture I have of the rebuilt 4-8-0 shows the back of the cab, and it looks like they've added a stoker as well. The book mentions adding larger superheaters, poppet valves, and thermic siphons in the firebox, along with other enhancements.
The drawings of the 4700s didn't show a stoker. I pulled out my English translation of Chapelon's "Locomotive a Vapeur" which includes drawings of both the 4700 (240A) and the later 240P. The 240P was indeed fitted with a stoker.
Apart from the stoker and some effort spent in "cleaning up" the external appearance the main difference between the types was longer stroke cylinders.
The 4700 had cylinders: HP 440x640, LP 650x650
The 240P had cylinders: HP 440x650, LP 650x690
I'm not sure I'd increase the stroke of inside cylinders as my first choice, but these already occupy all the space between the frame plates so the diameter is pretty much set.
Chapelon confirms that the 240P were used on the Sud Est region, the former PLM.
The 240P were converted during WWII but were replaced by the 241P from 1948. It was said of the 241P that they were much heavier for the same power and less "heroic" than the 240P.
Because of the early demise of the 240P, there haven't been ready to run models available.
In 1973 I started collecting Jouef HO gauge models in England, where they were quite cheap to buy. I obtained a 241P and a 141R and I subsequently got a 231K and a 141P. I meant to get a model of 232U1 but it was always too costly. I also have the Rivarossi 231E as a Nord locomotive.
In 1986 I purchased a lot of Jouef HO coaches in Singapore, more than I could carry home easily, so an old school friend put them in the empty 20mm cannon compartment of his Mirage IIIO and flew them back to Butterworth in Malaysia, from where they were shipped back to Australia.
Despite the size involved, this part of the discussion belongs in this forum because people on the MR forum wouldn't understand...
Trains of the world are fun to collect. Most of my international stuff is in N. I bought a Rapido Swiss krokodil many years ago,and found the SBB coaches in Interlaken in 2000. It seemed to me there were a disproportionately high number of places in Switzerland selling trains. Not only many train shops, but makes I have never seen before !
I have a DBB boxcab electric, and a fleet of "Shinkansen" from Japan.
We rode the 500 in 1999, it was their latest, and greatest at that time. Now, it's in the museum in Kyoto, superseded by the N 700A, for now...
Anyway, I have a model of the 500.
Only thing I have to represent Australia is an HOn3 Puffing Billy, from PFM.
I say " Hats off to all the locomotive designers of the World". All their creativity, and ingenuity.
So many clever designs !
Talking about locomotive designs ( I know what you're thinking "OMG, there he goes ")
This little beauty rolled out of the BLW ( Bell Locomotive Works)
number 9, affectionately known by train crews as " ol' doohickey"
she started life as an LGB Orenstein and Koppel well tank industrial engine. Picked up a Lehman Porter cab and bell, and a Bachmaann diamond stack and pilot.
Number 25. Where do I start ? The " deconstructed locomotive ". I had this wild idea that I would kitbash a Heisler. I cut down a ten wheeler's boiler, and mounted it on a cut down flat car. I came up with 2 cut down motor blocks. Everything was falling into place. What about the gearing?
Maybe I should have thought of that first !
She stands proud, though. Had to stretch the boiler back out again, the firebox is actually the saddle tank from the Porter. A new Bachman chassis was purchased for $55, the stack from the Porter, and flickering LED's in the firebox.
This engine was kit bashed twice ! First, a standard ten wheeler, with a " Barry's Big Trains" mechanism, and a 5 pound block of lead in the boiler. When another ten wheeler blew out a gear, I swapped its boiler to this mechanism.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month