LET'S TRY TO KEEP THE LIONEL/MTH....

[nblum]

Definitely some truth to what you say. But remember that *** Kughn and Neil Young, and *** Maddox, all key figures in Lionel's innovation and success, as well as other train guys like Ken Silvestri and Bob Grubba, all were Lionel guys too. People tend to forget that the last 20 years at Lionel hasn't been all about corporate suits who don't know or care about trains. In fact, a good argument can be made that the brief, unlamented Gary Moreau era, was the exception, rather than the rule. And even under Moreau, guys like Silvestri and Grubba, and others we don't know about, kept Lionel moving forward in many ways.

[Anonymous]

I read Lionel’s Moderated Chat transcript and it appears to me that it was like preaching to the choir. Only a couple of hardball questions were asked and all the others were softballs. But I sort of expected that, since they emphasized the term “Moderated” chat in their notices.

This entire issue of MTH vs. Lionel is kind of disheartening to me as most of my collection is comprised of pre and postwar Lionel and the fond memories my Lionel trains give to me. I never did buy much Lionel Modern Era stuff because I just felt it just wasn’t up to par. Or sure, I do have some Modern Era Lionel locos and rolling stock, but the great balance of my collection is comprised of MTH.

Yet, I would never want to see Lionel go under or suffer what it is going through now. Non-the-less, I have mixed feelings about Lionel, especially since they moved production off shore, and this resulting move didn’t bring their prices down at all.

Then what about Lionel’s recent stupid move into HO. Yeah, a bunch of guys flamed me over on that other board when I voiced my opinion on Lionel’s move to HO. What about all the money Lionel pissed away on that idiotic venture? Money that could have been well spent on their core business of O-gauge trains.

What amazes me though, is that Lionel never protected many of their patents, copyrights and intellectual properties. Take for instance the art for their very famous 1954 catalog cover. In 1999 MTH used the same image for their catalog, then Williams recently followed suit and used that image in their advertising. Why is it that Lionel’s management were never held accountable for not protecting their patents, copyrights and intellectual properties.

In my opinion the Lionel name, has been suited and courted by a succession of corporate pin-heads who’s only real motive was to use Lionel’s most recognized name in the world, to churn perceived profits. In doing so, Lionel has become the proverbial corporate “trophy wife”. But now the trophy wife is showing signs of aging and is carrying along a lot of excess baggage. Making her a lot less attractive.

Some guys rant and rave and blame Mike Wolf for Lionel’s woes. To be sure, Mike Wolf is a savvy business man and , in my opinion, a genius. He did what any savvy business man would do and that is, he took advantage of the opportunities he encountered.

If Lionel was managed and operated correctly, there wouldn’t have been such great need for, and acceptance of, the products manufactured by Mike Wolf, Gerry Williams or Maury Klein.

If Lionel’s management is searching for blame--searching for a devil to blame this all on, all they have to do is look honestly into a full length mirror.

BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[3railguy]

I just counted four new thread topics on the subject. LOL!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I have stopped caring whether MTH is right or wrong, because I feel they have lost sight of the ball. I know that there are a lot of people out there, that share in my frustration.

There are also a lot of people out here who think that MTH continues to make the highest quality, best bang-for-the-buck trains on the market today with the best operating system available. All of the naysaying in the world will not change that.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mileswrich

I say, I pox on both your houses. For years, Lionel put out an inferior product, and charged higher and higher prices for the product, depending on shlubs like me who called themselves collector/operators to purchase their ever increasing product line. Then Mike Wolf imported three frieight locomotives, and Lionel pulled his retail dealership agreement.

Then Mike started producing quality detailed product at competitive prices in relatively small numbers, but equipped with a sound system that is now only obsolete, and nothing but an electronic headache.

Lionel then developed TMCC, which revolutionized train control, and brought the hobby into the 21st Century. At first, they would not allow any other manufacturers to use this control system, but eventually licenced its use.

MTH, still smarting from its original dispute with Lionel, developed another wireless control system, that in my opinion, has the potential to be superior, but is not from my experience, very reliable. How do you wire a big layout anyway, and avoid lost signals, runaway trains, trains that can't be found,etc. I sure have tried.

But this latest lawsuit does involve an incidious problem in intellectual property rights that has arisen from knockoffs made in Asian lands. Lionel did steal MTH's blueprints and copied their products. Look at them. Whether it is the diecast scale locomotives that are the subject of the suit, or the RailKing Streamlined Passenger Cars that Lionel copied, there is no question that MTH's product was "ripped off" and sold for profit by Lionel. That is why MTH won the suit.

I have read above that the facts are in dispute. Let me explain something to you lay people. Lionel will appeal based on legal error, not on a dispute of the facts. The fact finder jury has already determined the facts, and no appellate court, certainly not the US CIrcuit Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit in Cincinnati, will overturn that finding of fact, unless there is almost literally no evidence to support the finding. The only way this judgment will get set aside will be based on some technical legal issue, or as some call them, legal technicalities, which usually, but not always involve the admission of evidence that the jury was privy or not privy to, and should or should not have been presented. That being said, Lionel damaged MTH, and now as some others have said, we will see if QSI (owned now by Lionel and the manufacturer of that horrid system called Protosounds One) will be successful in procuring a judgment against MTH for vioations of the same intellectual property rules in the development of the DCS system. That case is much more difficult to bring and be successful with.

But boycotting MTH because of this lawsuit is stupid. I started "boycotting" them about three or four years ago after purchasing a few Proto II locomotives, and later attempting to install a DCS system on a layout that is 48 feet long.

What will come of all of this? Hopefully a settlement between MTH and Lionel that will improve the compatability of DCS and TMCC, and allow both to operate as designed. Perhaps this and the Polar Express craze will inject life into our hobby, something it has sorely missed for years.

We can only hope so.

Thank you, and [#welcome] to the forum. That is the most common sense filled and logical accounting of this situation that anyone has ever given on these forums, and I completely agree.

One minor distinction, and please correct me if I'm wrong. This really doesn't change the outcome of the case, as Lionel is still guilty of wrong doing. From what I have read, Lionel did not seek to gain access to the MTH plans, but when offered, did not refuse them. If this was a criminal case, it would be akin to the difference between first and second degree, intent.

I don't really see Lionel getting this reversed on appeal, though they sound optomistic. They may get damages reduced substantially. There is always the possibility that they will squirm out on a technicality. Future damages? After being ordered to not produce the models in question. That seems a bit draconian.[;)]

Like you, my mind was made up about MTH electronics long before this lawsuit. I made the decision based on the needs of my model railroad.

It just frustrates me so much, that our hobby has to be dragged through the courts at all. MTH has proven that it can sue and win in court, but that does not improve the hobby. I have stopped caring whether MTH is right or wrong, because I feel they have lost sight of the ball. I know that there are a lot of people out there, that share in my frustration.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

Sorry, wrong guy. I'm not the one who deleted the thread.

My apologies Ogaugeoverlord! Wrong assumption on my part.

[Anonymous]

CHAT TRANSCRIPT ONLINE....

http://www.lionel.com

[Bob Keller]

Sorry, wrong guy. I'm not the one who deleted the thread.

[AntonioFP45]

Ogaugeoverlord,

You've deleted the Tribute to Mike Wolf topic.

IMHO, It's too bad. If you read my last post I was suggesting that everyone think, cool their jets and discuss it. [;)][:D] No, of course no one can accurately predict the litigation outcomes but the thread, towards the end wasn't turning into a "shouting match" as you indicated. Some of the points brought up by both sides were intelligent and again I thought I stated a reasonable suggestion that we keep cool and post intelligently. [8D] You would not even allow the opportunity to let that happen. [V]

You stated before your concern for "Newbies". Overall the number of threads that are or were "controversial" is quite low. Intelligent newbies would not have a problem reading the posts, drawing conclusions and asking questions if some points are unclear.

But again, I acknowledge that you are in charge here but with all due respect, it "seems" that at times you're rather "heavy-handed and restrictive" when it comes to the expression of disagreements between posters. If there is a flare up and it cools down, then why not let it continue as we are here to talk about trains and everything that's related. Reality is not always fluffy.

No disrespect intended towards you, Ogaugeoverlord, but I guess I've just gotten too used to the MR moderator "Bergie" who lets us police ourselves and only jumps in when things start getting out of hand, which did not happen in this case.

I've been enjoying some of the threads here, especially the one about the bus. I'll continue to visit and hope to make positive contributions.

Peace out!

[Anonymous]

Well, I think Mike is going to find out that he can't hit flies with the big guys. Kughn. Young and the Davis family could each buy and sell Mike. Now , the Lionel Countersuits are coming. QSI will get to pick the bones.

[Anonymous]

Miles,

If you want to discuss wiring for DCS, I will be very happy to do so. I too had difficulties when the size of a loop exceeded 60-70'. We have been operating a floor display layout with both DCS and TMCC for almost two years now. We have excellent signal strength and very solid control. I would be happy to assist via email if you desire:

[e-mail]

[Anonymous]

I say, I pox on both your houses. For years, Lionel put out an inferior product, and charged higher and higher prices for the product, depending on shlubs like me who called themselves collector/operators to purchase their ever increasing product line. Then Mike Wolf imported three frieight locomotives, and Lionel pulled his retail dealership agreement.

Then Mike started producing quality detailed product at competitive prices in relatively small numbers, but equipped with a sound system that is now only obsolete, and nothing but an electronic headache.

Lionel then developed TMCC, which revolutionized train control, and brought the hobby into the 21st Century. At first, they would not allow any other manufacturers to use this control system, but eventually licenced its use.

MTH, still smarting from its original dispute with Lionel, developed another wireless control system, that in my opinion, has the potential to be superior, but is not from my experience, very reliable. How do you wire a big layout anyway, and avoid lost signals, runaway trains, trains that can't be found,etc. I sure have tried.

But this latest lawsuit does involve an incidious problem in intellectual property rights that has arisen from knockoffs made in Asian lands. Lionel did steal MTH's blueprints and copied their products. Look at them. Whether it is the diecast scale locomotives that are the subject of the suit, or the RailKing Streamlined Passenger Cars that Lionel copied, there is no question that MTH's product was "ripped off" and sold for profit by Lionel. That is why MTH won the suit.

I have read above that the facts are in dispute. Let me explain something to you lay people. Lionel will appeal based on legal error, not on a dispute of the facts. The fact finder jury has already determined the facts, and no appellate court, certainly not the US CIrcuit Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit in Cincinnati, will overturn that finding of fact, unless there is almost literally no evidence to support the finding. The only way this judgment will get set aside will be based on some technical legal issue, or as some call them, legal technicalities, which usually, but not always involve the admission of evidence that the jury was privy or not privy to, and should or should not have been presented. That being said, Lionel damaged MTH, and now as some others have said, we will see if QSI (owned now by Lionel and the manufacturer of that horrid system called Protosounds One) will be successful in procuring a judgment against MTH for vioations of the same intellectual property rules in the development of the DCS system. That case is much more difficult to bring and be successful with.

But boycotting MTH because of this lawsuit is stupid. I started "boycotting" them about three or four years ago after purchasing a few Proto II locomotives, and later attempting to install a DCS system on a layout that is 48 feet long.

What will come of all of this? Hopefully a settlement between MTH and Lionel that will improve the compatability of DCS and TMCC, and allow both to operate as designed. Perhaps this and the Polar Express craze will inject life into our hobby, something it has sorely missed for years.

We can only hope so.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macdannyk1

Ogaugeoverlord is trying to keep the number of overlapping/duplicate threads down, not restricting content. I hate to see the same thing posted on umpteen different threads, pushing down threads that might actually be interesting to me.
And there's always K-Line, Atlas and 3rd Rail, if you're dissatisfied with your current importer.

Hello MacDanny,

A good example on one of my points is Ogaugeoverlords post on the "tribute to Mike Wolf" thread. He suggested that the discussions referring to the QSI litigations that have impacted the HO & N market, be kept on the MR Forum. My question is still "WHY?"

Many of your fellow 3 rail and O gaugers participated and provided input on the MTH/QSI litigation topics on the MR Forum! It was GREAT to read input from the CTT guys! [:D][8D]

If a thread is repititious or boring, it's so simple to just ignore it. [:p] The threads that are interesting to one can be quickly brought back to the front page.

But again, when posting on this forum, it seems (to me) that I had better tread more carefully then when on my usual TRAINS and MR. I find this a tad dissappointing as this entire collection of forums is about trains, the one subject that should somehow bind us together. [;)]

Peace and High Greens!

[Anonymous]

Antonio, if you think this is bad, try the OGR forum. There is no freedom of speech there and this topic would never be allowed to be discussed. The threads get deleted or locked because the moderator is a control freak. I would give CTT credit for allowing us to discuss this issue.

[Bob Keller]

The purpose of the website is to attract newcomers to the hobby.

If someone comes to the website, sees 15 threads where people are attacking each other over topics that the newbie can't comprehend, he or she will probably leave, never to return.

The exchange of ideas between hobbysts is great.

Fist fights over who is Team Orange and who is Team Purple are stupid. We've given forum members great leeway in their past discussions. All I want are some adult conversation without calling each other names. There is currently very little discussion here, just two sides yelling at each other and I'm a little fed up with it.

[macdannyk1]

Ogaugeoverlord is trying to keep the number of overlapping/duplicate threads down, not restricting content. I hate to see the same thing posted on umpteen different threads, pushing down threads that might actually be interesting to me.
And there's always K-Line, Atlas and 3rd Rail, if you're dissatisfied with your current importer.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

....topics in as few threads as possible.

Ogaugeoverlord,

With humble respect, as I'm just a short time visitor, if you don't mind my pointing out: It seems that compared to the MR and TRAINS forum moderators, you seem to keep a rather tight and restrictive reign here. That is your right as you're the boss.

Our moderator,Bergie, gives us quite a bit of "Leeway" on the other forums and allows us to police ourselves. Guys like BigBoy4005 and JoeFugate do an exceptional job of encouraging things to "keep flowing" when "flame ups" do occur. Bergie, only jumps in when things "get out of hand" or we e-mail a reasonable complaint.

You state: As few threads as possible. Why? If the hobbyists here wi***o talk, discuss, learn, exchange info, or even vent, then as long as they "keep it clean" what is the problem? Redundant topics show up on the other forums but what often happens is that "Newbies" see them for the first time and chime right on in so things stay interesting.

Well, I guess I've overstayed my welcome. Drop in on the MR forum sometime. Everyone's welcome! [:)][:D][8D][;)][8)]

Peace out!

[Anonymous]

MTH was founded on the principle of copying everything Lionel made? Give me a break! Don't you think that Lionel would have sued MTH long ago if the circumstances were even remotely similar?

As for jury selection, do most of you think that you should have been on the jury to straighten things out? With some of the leftist attitude posts on this thread and those previously, I don't think that any of us could have done any better than the jury that was selected. Given that the points of the lawsuit were at times very technical, could it be be that some of those "sophisticated" jury members had a college degree that might be of some relevance to the case like mechanical engineering? Or would you ratther have a bunch of backwoods hillbillies with 5 teeth between them deciding the verdict?

If not buying MTH products helps some of you sleep better at night, then more power to you. Cutting your nose off despite your face isn't going to change was has or in most cases what will happen to MTH/Lionel. I'm going to continue to buy product from who I want based on the product--not on what's happened. I'm 28 years old and fairly new to toy trains, and I think it's way to early(if at all) to get that frustrated over a hobby.

Robert

[Anonymous]

"Boycott MTH now"?

You have got to be kidding (but I know that you are not).

1) As long as MTH continues to manufacture the trains and control system that I want, I will continue to purchase from them. No one can or will tell me what I should or should not buy. (and yes, I am very biased toward MTH).

2) Lionel is not the Lionel of our childhood, and has not been for years. Lionel has been owned by various individuals/companies since the end of the postwar era, each with its own ideas of what it should be. Whoever the current owner is, simply has the rights to the name, dies, logos, orange and blue boxes, etc. It absolutley matters not whether it is owned by Wellspring, General Mills, Richard Kughn, Mike Wolf, or someone else (other than the fact that if Mike Wolf owned it, there would be less competition in the market place) as long as they do a good job with the product and marketing.

3) There are still some that look at Lionel as a villain from what happened to Ives in the late 1920's and early 1930's. That is ridiculous too.

We don't even know what the outcome of all this will be yet.

We all need to just "get over it"...

[Anonymous]

MTH was founded on the principal of copying everything Lionel made. MTH didn't care, they just blatantly stole every idea Lionel had. As a business man, this has always incensed me and as a result, I will NEVER buy a MTH product. The latest lawsuit is icing on the cake. Now I really hate MTH. I think they will suffer an incredible backlash from actions. Was Lionel wrong? Absolutely. But only after years and years of MTH stealing everything Lionel had at the expense ot the complete toy train industry. I will tell you right now that if Mike's name is EVER associated with Lionel, I will leave the toy train collecting industry. BOYCOTT MTH NOW !!!!!!!

[Back2Trains]

plasticlizard: glad to hear you are in the hobby. Too many young guys aren't and a lot of us older guys may have only 10 or 20 years left. When my grandsons come over, they play with, among others, a train that was first played with by me, then their mother and aunt for whom a few accessories were purchased and now, them.
This hobby allows kids to be much more creative than TV, video games,etc. do. Unfortunately the competition for their attention is extremely strong.
A few days ago on another thread I made a case for having accessories and operating cars on show layouts. Do this, let the kids pu***he buttons, see what these things do and then watch them nag their parents for a train.
I just saw this morning that KMart and Sears are merging. What a market for trains and all through one retailer! Getting train sets into those stores will dramatically increase visibility. But, not just one $250.00 set, but basic sets at blow-out price levels. And not just sets, but extra track, separate sale cars, FREE catalogs, etc. People who buy a basic set very soon, perhaps immediately want extra track and one or 2 more cars. And cut the prices to bring people in. I see no reason why a section of track should cost $2.00 or more, except that they can get that much for it.
One last thing: if a disaster like MTH's PS 1 was built by the auto industry, the government would long ago have demanded a mandatory recall at no cost to the owners.

Jim

[Anonymous]

I also take exception to the idea that the jury was sophisticated. Define "Sophisticated." There are many people without college degrees who are more "sophisticated" than many people who have them.

Tony

[Anonymous]

I've read in other posts that Lionel's estimated revenue (not profit) per year is 60-100 million. The theft happened 5 years ago. IMHO, the verdict for $40 million doesn't make sense. I think Lionel should be liable, but this verdict smells of another "lawsuit lottery" winner.

What has me steamed is how far MTH went--read the MTH press release at http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/005/518tpuns.asp
and ask yourself how many of those engines were not produced by Lionel first. And, how can you award damages for future lost profits when the competition can't produce competing products?

We don't seem to have a say in what happens in the courts, but do have a say in what happens in the stores. I think MTH will suffer a great deal of backlash and IMHO it is deserved.

Finally, while we may not have all the facts, I for one am doubtful that the jury had all the facts. Our legal system has long since forgone fact in favor of opinion. The winners in jury trials always rebut the critics with accusations of ignorance. MTH's own press release reports that judge called the jury "especially sophisticated" because 5 of the 8 jurors had college degrees (implying the other 3 did not). Is that our definition of sophisticated? I wonder if any of the 8 jurors had a toy train?

[railfanespee4449]

I think MTH has some decent products, but could they PLEASE KEEP THEIR NOSE OUT OF LIONEL"S BUSINESS AND PRODUCE SOME ITEMS THAT LIONEL DOES NOT HAVE LIKE A 4--8-0, or more starter sets with semi-scale 2-8-0's

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by plasticlizard

[

QUOTE: Originally posted by FullSteam

Sad to see a toy business go "Republican", ie... do wrong, get caught, and then be rewarded by consumers.

Oh for the love of Pete....can't we keep politics out of trains. Or I'd have to remind you that the "Enron" scandle happened under the former president, and was caught under this one. Same with the Adelphia cable scandle, the California energy crisis scandle, the UN oil for food scandle, and a ton else. Let's talk about trains and leave politics out of it! If not I'll suggest that the toy business go "Democrat"...ie...take away half of my trains and give them to someone who never had a train before.[:)]

BTW.... the jury verdict was larger than the actual damages. This is normal because it sends a message of being punitive. It may hurt Lionel in the short run, but someone will own it, at least the name. Remember that this is not the same Lionel of 100 years ago. The company hasn't just changed owners, it's changed in just about every aspect.

And don't worry about the hobby or about it's participants getting older. If there is a demand, there will be a supply. I'm only 33 and I'm using my dad's 1947 Lionel 2025. I've got a layout now because I want to use it with my 11 month old in a couple years. I'm also using my dad's original ZW transformer, on newer Gargraves track I bought on Ebay, with a MTH proto 1 diesel that I am converting to run with Lionel TMCC. So where there's a will there is a way.

This hobby will continue to change and evolve. Technology will improve, some prices will go up, and some will come down. If people want a cheap starter set in Walmart, then some company will build one (although it will be made in China). The cool thing about this hobby is that we get to tinker and play. I can almost guarentee you that 50 years after it was "popular" no one will be talking about the playstation 2. There is no imagination there. The toys that become big boy toys are the ones that grab hold of your imagination and keep you up at night dreaming of them.

One final rant....Polar Express may spark some interest, but is not going to turn around anything. The sets are running for $500 or more. Come on. How many people are going to run out and be able to get one. Not enough newbees like me to make a difference. If they wanted to spark interest, they should have had a $99, 4 car, made in China, rugged set that kids will enjoy playing with. And one that the parents will allow them to play with instead of protecting their investment.

Ok, I'm done, let the flames begin....

Oh no.....Here we go again!

[Anonymous]

I keep reading statements that Mike Wolf is a copycat. As pointed out in another thread, the Koreans stole the MTH blueprints for Lionel, who then produced locomotives with the stolen MTH blueprints. Who's copying who? Lionel got caught and now they need to pay. Simple as that. I don't want to see Lionel go out of business but justice needs to be served. If Mike ends up owning Lionel, I think it will be a plus for the hobby. I hardly think Wellspring and Jerry Calabrese are really "train guys". They'll license the Lionel name on everything they can. All they are interested in is milking every dollar out of the company.

[mackb4]

All I can say about the matter of MTH/LIONEL is ,"What comes around,goes around".MTH for years have reproduced mirror copies of Lionel products.Now if MTH had permission to do so,I don't know.But for Lionel to do what they are accussed of doing is a bad thing.But don't bite the hand that feed you.This will be a smear for MTH to have to deal with in the model train business for years to come.I for one wasn't happy to see Lionel go over seas but I wouldn't have thought MTH would have gone this far !

[Anonymous]

no flames coming from me on this one, you did a good enough job on your own!
Who knows, one day you might put them out and see the real picture there. Best of luck ............

[Anonymous]

[

QUOTE: Originally posted by FullSteam

Sad to see a toy business go "Republican", ie... do wrong, get caught, and then be rewarded by consumers.

Oh for the love of Pete....can't we keep politics out of trains. Or I'd have to remind you that the "Enron" scandle happened under the former president, and was caught under this one. Same with the Adelphia cable scandle, the California energy crisis scandle, the UN oil for food scandle, and a ton else. Let's talk about trains and leave politics out of it! If not I'll suggest that the toy business go "Democrat"...ie...take away half of my trains and give them to someone who never had a train before.[:)]

BTW.... the jury verdict was larger than the actual damages. This is normal because it sends a message of being punitive. It may hurt Lionel in the short run, but someone will own it, at least the name. Remember that this is not the same Lionel of 100 years ago. The company hasn't just changed owners, it's changed in just about every aspect.

And don't worry about the hobby or about it's participants getting older. If there is a demand, there will be a supply. I'm only 33 and I'm using my dad's 1947 Lionel 2025. I've got a layout now because I want to use it with my 11 month old in a couple years. I'm also using my dad's original ZW transformer, on newer Gargraves track I bought on Ebay, with a MTH proto 1 diesel that I am converting to run with Lionel TMCC. So where there's a will there is a way.

This hobby will continue to change and evolve. Technology will improve, some prices will go up, and some will come down. If people want a cheap starter set in Walmart, then some company will build one (although it will be made in China). The cool thing about this hobby is that we get to tinker and play. I can almost guarentee you that 50 years after it was "popular" no one will be talking about the playstation 2. There is no imagination there. The toys that become big boy toys are the ones that grab hold of your imagination and keep you up at night dreaming of them.

One final rant....Polar Express may spark some interest, but is not going to turn around anything. The sets are running for $500 or more. Come on. How many people are going to run out and be able to get one. Not enough newbees like me to make a difference. If they wanted to spark interest, they should have had a $99, 4 car, made in China, rugged set that kids will enjoy playing with. And one that the parents will allow them to play with instead of protecting their investment.

Ok, I'm done, let the flames begin....

[Anonymous]

Sad to see a toy business go "Republican", ie... do wrong, get caught, and then be rewarded by consumers. Inform your Kids that this IS wrong! let them read about the case so they'll make an informed decision on their own and grow up learning right from wrong and that spending time with Mom & Dad is more than just hobbies.
Ever see parents at their kids Ball Game? Kids can learn a lot, a lot of good or a lot of bad! Introduce a Kid to Model Railroading and a way of life through researching , planning, paying attention to details, determanation, and self worth/ confidence building. Above all Honesty, integrity.
If a company or business is doing wrong, tell them through boycotting, it's one of our country's last rights left. KEEP'M ROLLI'N