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Shopping for a 4-4-0 General

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, February 23, 2015 9:29 AM
You can actually use any E-unit, forget the lever. Just use a discreetly mounted slide switch to control power to the E-unit solenoid.

Rob

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Posted by KRM on Monday, February 23, 2015 1:55 PM

8N and Fife,

Wow the 6-8701 General # 3 set came today and it is absolutely un-run NIB.  I Lubed it up and it runs great! It is much faster than the 2011 Denver & Rio Grand General Set but has nicer rod action and very good detail. Smoke output is about the same. The cars are also NIB never run. Glad you guys talked me into it. Smile

Only thing on the down side is the light shining through the plactic on the headlight and cars. That can be fixed.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by 8ntruck on Monday, February 23, 2015 7:35 PM

My initial thought was aluminum foil and contact cenent to light proof the headlight box.  A couple of coats of black or silver paint would probably do the same job - would be a bunch easier to do too.  Will have to see what I have laying around.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, February 23, 2015 9:16 PM
Lionel MPC/Fundimesions/LTI used cardboard "masks" for light control at some point, I thought it was these cars.

Rob

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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, February 24, 2015 7:33 AM

ADCX Rob
Lionel MPC/Fundimesions/LTI used cardboard "masks" for light control at some point, I thought it was these cars.
 

Nope not on these cars. The cars from the 2011 Rio Grand set are good. These will need some work.

 

 

Here is a link I hope works guys. Running too fast but you get the idea.  I have the MPC general hauling the tender and load from the Rio Grand set on the mail loop and the Rio Grand General hauling the MPC's load + a postwar milk car on the kids loop. Also you can see the mail pick-up set from Bob and the station from Ryan in the end of the video.

 

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, February 24, 2015 9:53 AM

Hmm, 19th Century railcars that glow in the dark.  You can always say young Tom Edison's on board doing some experiments.

Or maybe Artemus Gordon?

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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, February 24, 2015 3:35 PM

Firelock76

Hmm, 19th Century railcars that glow in the dark.  You can always say young Tom Edison's on board doing some experiments.

Or maybe Artemus Gordon?

 

 

Firelock76, Is this better?
8N, and Rob,

Three coats of flat black in the headlight bucket and three coats of flat black in the inside of the cars took care of the light seepage problems.

Before:

After:

 

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, February 24, 2015 6:51 PM

Man, you fixed the problem alright!

Still, I kinda liked the glow in the dark effect, but then they ain't my cars.  You do what you like, I won't say you're wrong.

I guess Artemus Gordon and Jim West have left town for another assignment.

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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, February 24, 2015 7:28 PM

Firelock76

Man, you fixed the problem alright!

Still, I kinda liked the glow in the dark effect, but then they ain't my cars.  You do what you like, I won't say you're wrong.

I guess Artemus Gordon and Jim West have left town for another assignment.

 

You know what Firelock. My wife loved the light bleed through to, on both the headlight and the cars.  But then she likes it on those ceramic buildings she made me put on the layout. .  For me, something MPC, well,, I don’t have much respect for their originality when Lionel was in, to me the darkest days, as was all of the manufacturing in the USA those days. So I will play with it and not feel to bad. JMHO.

It has been a fun project!!!! On to the Girder bridge project next. Wink

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by 8ntruck on Tuesday, February 24, 2015 9:49 PM

I would have thought that Mr. Tesla was involved in lighting those cars.

KRM - how hot do your smoke stacks get?  I was running mine for maybe 15 minutes last night.  I thought that mine was uncomfortably warm , but I have not run across any reports of the smoke unit damaging the smoke stack.

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Posted by KRM on Wednesday, February 25, 2015 7:58 AM

8ntruck

I would have thought that Mr. Tesla was involved in lighting those cars.

KRM - how hot do your smoke stacks get?  I was running mine for maybe 15 minutes last night.  I thought that mine was uncomfortably warm , but I have not run across any reports of the smoke unit damaging the smoke stack.

 

 

Not sure 8N. I will run it today and tell you what I find. Mine requires very little power to go faster than I like even pulling 7 cars. Because of that there is not that much power going to the heat element and smoke output is what I consider low.

 

Yes,,,, Mr. Tesla. It runs on AC.  Smile, Wink & Grin

 

Update:

Well I just ran it for ½ hour 8N and the stack was warm but not too hot. I got readings of 99 degrees on the outside plastic when I first stopped it and if I left it powered up just enough it would not move the temps would go up to 110. Also inside the stack I got a 185 closer to the element.  It seems to have good smoke output and plenty of air movement over the element. I would think if you have an obstruction in the air flow through the pump the temps could go up. Do you get a good puffing?

Hope this helps.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by anjdevil2 on Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:41 PM

Sorry...a little late to this party...lol

I'm NOT an MTH guy by any stretch. 

I acquired a 4-4-0 "The Wanderer" from my train store when it closed (from the Wild Wild West movie).  It smokes like crazy and when the battery is charged, it performs very well.  It has a pre-programmed thing where it will do sounds and voices from the movie and start and stop by itself.  I'm pleased with it, especially since it was free as no one wanted it.  I use it for Christmas for the firehouse display and I have 3 or 4 cars (from the Lincoln Log set as well as some Christmas themed cars) and it has no trouble navagating the layout.  For anyone thinking of a 4-4-0 "General" type, this one is pretty good.

I am the monster in your head...And I thought you'd learn by now, It seems you haven't yet.
I am the venom in your skin  --- Breaking Benjamin


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Posted by fifedog on Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:28 AM

KRM - enjoyed watching your video (several times now).  Looks like you got a good one (kinda balances out the headaches you head with your Rio Grande...), at a very good price.

See you have the Lionel mail pouch accessory.  How has it worked for ya?

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Posted by davidkeith89 on Thursday, February 26, 2015 9:02 AM

The 1892 General from 2008 or so also had a light bleed issue with the headlight. Seems to have been fixed with later releases. I did find a vendor on eBay that sells replacement headlight housings. Tried one that was black with a gold stripe around the non-existent lens. No bleed through and I like the way it looks on this model. Maybe not keeping it pure, but it solved the problem for me.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, February 26, 2015 9:07 AM

"...you will only use one of the two field windings."

You can do it that way, or use both windings in series for slower operation.  Leave connected together the ends of the two field windings that are already connected together and treat the other, free ends of the two windings as the ends of the new, longer winding.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by KRM on Thursday, February 26, 2015 3:22 PM

lionelsoni

"...you will only use one of the two field windings."

You can do it that way, or use both windings in series for slower operation.  Leave connected together the ends of the two field windings that are already connected together and treat the other, free ends of the two windings as the ends of the new, longer winding.

 

Bob that sounds like a great idea. It will slow it down some and add more power to the smoke unit at the same time.

I don't plan on doing anything right away but when I do I will be asking for a wiring diagram from you. Maybe 8N can try it out first, he already has an extra e-unit.

Thanks!!

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by KRM on Thursday, February 26, 2015 4:44 PM

fifedog

 See you have the Lionel mail pouch accessory.  How has it worked for ya?

 

Fife, that was a gift from submmbob about a month ago. I painted the bag but have not yet tried to make it work. I will let you know how it goes when I get there. It is all there but I have to figure out how I want to use it and with what car. My guess is making it work will be a PITA.  Bang Head Hope not! Hey it looks good,,,Right???  Stick out tongue

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by 8ntruck on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:36 PM

Been out of town lately - finally getting caught up.

Thanks for the reply on the smoke stack temperature, Kev.  Mine puffs fine, so I will 'run and monitor'.

I have converted double wound 200 series Alco motors to 3 position e-units, but only by using one of the windings.  Might be interesting to try what Lionelsony has suggested.  It will be a while before I get to it, though.

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Posted by TrainLarry on Friday, March 13, 2015 3:51 PM

Here is the Trainz article on the Lionel Generals locomotives.

Click 'Back to Articles' on top for other interesting articles.

 

Larry

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Posted by steve24944 on Friday, March 13, 2015 10:46 PM

I clicked on the Link above  Trainz article on the Lionel Generals locomotives , and there were no pictures where the pictures should be.

Steve


 

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Posted by TrainLarry on Friday, March 13, 2015 11:47 PM

It seems the server links to the pictures are broken.

Good article otherwise.

Larry

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Posted by fifedog on Monday, March 23, 2015 8:39 AM

Saw a Legacy Station video on YouTube this weekend, on the Western Union General.  Handsome as all get-out, and the chatter is the best that Lionel has produced thus far.

Check it out.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=western%20union%20general&qs=n&form=QBVR&pq=western%20union%20general&sc=1-21&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&mid=3767B8E9884651F93DAF3767B8E9884651F93DAF

 

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Posted by KRM on Monday, March 23, 2015 8:53 AM

Thanks for sharing Fife, It is a sharp looking set. The tender looks too far from the loco like the PE sets. but the sounds are nice. I agree. I see Charles Ro has it listed at $110.00 off list price.

 I showed it to wife but she told me I have enough Generals for now. Tongue Tied

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by fifedog on Saturday, March 28, 2015 8:50 AM

Sigh Ya'know...?  That is a pretty large chasm between the loco and tender, and the more I look at it, the more I don't like that...

 

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Posted by KRM on Saturday, March 28, 2015 6:40 PM

fifedog

Sigh Ya'know...?  That is a pretty large chasm between the loco and tender, and the more I look at it, the more I don't like that...

 

 

 

Same here Fife!! Click on it to see it the way they are.

I sold the tender and use one from the MPC days that fits.

 

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by 8ntruck on Tuesday, March 31, 2015 8:36 PM

Speaking of tenders, I just came up with a questioin.  I recently got an 'operating' water tower.  I went to pull my General up for a 're-fill', then stopped cold - Where does the water go in one of these?  The whole top of the tender is covered in wood, and there does not seem to be an obvious tank on the locomotive.

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Posted by fifedog on Saturday, April 4, 2015 8:07 AM

8ntruck - That is a good question, bud.  Think of the tender as the steam locomotives "lunch box", that it totes with it to work.  The water and fuel (wood,oil,coal,natural gas) is carried in the tender, and "fed" into the engine.

Now, that gets us to where to fill water in our Lionel Generals.  Usually, the fill hatch is located at the rear, top decking of the tender.  Our favorite engine has its covered with logs, so our O-gauge firemen have to clear it away before "toppin' off the tank."

There are some really good pictures on the Kloke Locomotive Works website, showing all the love and artistry that goes into fabricating a real 4-4-0.

Hope this helped.

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Posted by tinplatacis on Sunday, April 5, 2015 9:10 AM

So, what's the best general type from lionel in terms of the cost and appearance that is not the 1872?  that one's my favorite, but  have not the funds to aquire a good example.

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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, April 7, 2015 11:40 AM

tinplatacis,   

The Best General Type??? A lot of good examples have been shown and discussed in this thread, But in the end you will need to look at the options your looking for and your finance. Then make a choice that will work for you.
Enjoy and let us know what you end up with. Smile

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by 8ntruck on Thursday, April 9, 2015 10:17 PM

Fife - I assumed that the water tank is in the tender.  It seems that whoever did the original design on the tender 50 plus years ago probably didn't worry about the water tank.  We've got to remember that these things were originally toys for kids (of all ages!).

I passed through St. Louis when returning from a business trip this week.  I took that opportunity to stop at one of the Lionel dealers there and pick up some wood smoke 'flavored' smoke fluid for my General.  The hot chocolate flavored fluid I have been using just is not right.

I spotted a nice Shay on display at this Lionel dealer.  At just under $1,300, it was a very, very nice Shay.  Unfortunately, out of my price point, though.

All for now.

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