I'm shopping for a 4-4-0 general locomotive. Lionel has built many variations over the years.
At a minimum, I want one that smokes and has magnetraction. I'd prefer one that has a black or gray boiler and red cab. The 1872 meets these minimums. I'll want to pull 3 or 4 stock cars and a cabose.
So, you folks out there who already have a General of some sort can help me do some research. What do you have? What do you like about it? What don't you like? How well does it run/pull?
Thanks
8ntruck I'm shopping for a 4-4-0 general locomotive. Lionel has built many variations over the years. At a minimum, I want one that smokes and has magnetraction. I'd prefer one that has a black or gray boiler and red cab. The 1872 meets these minimums. I'll want to pull 3 or 4 stock cars and a cabose.
With your minimums, there is only one that fits... the 1872.
Rob
I've had my #1872 pulling up to 15 mixed-vintage cars on a layout with O-42 curves. Amazing. I don't recommend stressing it that hard for too long, however. It should be OK for maybe 5 of the old-time passenger cars (including the whistle car).
The early Lionel Generals are vulnerable to a short circuit problem that can damage the front wall of the engine cab. The right-hand handrail carries center-rail current out to the headlight and the smoke unit. A screw under the bottom front of the boiler is similarly charged. If the front truck derails and the metal frame of that truck touches the head of that screw, a short thus occurs between the center and outer rails, through that handrail, heating it up and melting the cab plastic where it goes through the wall, and melting the ends of the little plastic support arms along the handrail. This can be avoided by countersinking the problem screw a bit into the boiler bottom so that the front truck plate can't touch it. I fixed mine a little too late, but heck, it's still a nice engine, with a scar.
I have 4 "General" style Lionel engines. And not all are created equal.
I have the LCCA/150th Anniv Set, consisting of the #3 General, and the #49 Texas. They are the modern version with sound. They are the most gorgeous steam locomotives, with extra bling and number plates. Both are good smokers, and I like the chuffs, whistles, and bells, but don't like the chincy chatter. As long as they are on flat and level surface, they pull "fair". For some reason, the General is a better puller than the Texas.
Received the Medal of Honor 4-4-0 for Christmas. Again, great looking engine, pretty good smoker and puller. Not glossy like my LCCA beauties, more matte finish but handsome. After the Civil War, a lot of railroads had these warhorses on their rosters, some up to the 1890's!
Wife talked me into buying the 1800 Frontier Pack at YORK, which had the 1960 version of the 1862. Plain Jane as can be, but will absolutely out-pull any of my new Generals. And, gives off that old familiar ozone smell once it gets a-rollin'. I've been adding aftermarket detail piping striping (making it look similar to an 1872).
Ultimately, I'd recomment just picking the one whose looks strike your fancy.
TRAINZ has a nice write-up on most of the LIONEL Generals.
Also, check out some of the "LIONEL General" videos guys have posted on youtube. There's a Part 1 and Part 2 on each of the sets.
Hope this helped.
I agree with Fifedog, you need to get what you like as far as looks. Or change the way it looks. I only have a modern General. I have the 2011 made 4-4-0 Denver Rio Grand Western General Locomotive # 346 Stock # 6-18749. It is to me one of the best looking,,,,but, I had to remove the snow plow for use with some areas of my layout and it has a unacceptable fail rate. I pull the load it came with an additional horse and baggage car. So seven cars in all counting the tender and it pulls them but I have had to replace the smoke unit, E-board and motor without much run time at all. Maybe I am asking too much of it, But for me now,,, my next one will be a post-war unit. Hope this helps.
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
I have 3 modern-era Generals: the green 1892, the Rio Grande and the new Western Union. The 1892 is nice looking, but it has the wrong trucks on the tender and the tender rides high. It doesn't smoke very well, but the TrainSounds are quite loud. The Rio Grande was problematic at first. It made one trip back to the shop for exchange, then Lionel exchanged it, and then Lionel rebuilt it. After that it became something of a stump-puller. The smoke unit just went out, so I'm debating whether to fix it (again) or live without smoke. The TrainSounds are barely audible, even with the volume turned up to max. The Western Union is just as good looking as Rio, very nice decoration. It's a LionChief, so it runs differently; it has much better slow speed control and a much lower top speed. Our house is 144 years old, and so the Hardwood Central in the formal parlor isn't level, so all have to pull up a slight grade. The WU pulls about as well as the 1892, maybe 3 or 4 cars, more if they're lightweight. But the RailSounds RC are far better than either of the TrainSounds, and are very loud. Our 2 cats are railfans and always have to sit and watch the trains. All 3 Generals have t-boned a cat that wouldn't heed the whistle and all survived unscathed. The Pennsy General from a year or so ago is also very nice.
Thanks for the information, all.
My other thought is installing an Electronic Railroad sound and control in a postwar General. The ERR equipment would probably have to go in the tender. Think there is room?
Not to be blasphemous but have you considered any of the MTH 4-4-0's. Diecast with great sound and lot's of smoke and a big plus is the DCS remote commander( I call it DCS lite). Remote control for about $40, They are more expensive going in but they do pull much better then the Lionels. Just my 2cents.
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Well since dougdagrump's spoken the unspeakable...
I've got five MTH 4-4-0's. Don't ask me how, it just happened. The General, the Texas, the General Haupt (USMRR), a B&O, and the UP 119. All are built like tanks and will pull tree stumps out of the ground. I couldn't be more pleased.
I also have the Marx 4-4-0 I got when I was around seven or six, it came out of a "Tales of Wells Fargo" set. Still runs and smokes too!
I concur about ther snow plow but it is a nice engine otherwise and my only General. I would like to add more old timey cars eventually.
dougdagrump Not to be blasphemous but have you considered any of the MTH 4-4-0's. Diecast with great sound and lot's of smoke and a big plus is the DCS remote commander( I call it DCS lite). Remote control for about $40, They are more expensive going in but they do pull much better then the Lionels. Just my 2cents.
I have 6 Lionels and 6 MTH, like the MTH much better
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I am a person with a very active inner child. This is why my wife loves me so. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. OTTS Founder www.spankybird.shutterfly.com
Spankybirds two 4-4-0's are the same as mine, and as you can see the smoke output is unbelieveable. I turn the smoke units off this time of year and only turn them on during the warm weather months when I can open a window.
I took Fife's advice and pulled the trigger on a MPC era General #3. It had the look I wanted and the price was OK. It will arrive sometime this week, so I'll know for sure when it gets here.
Hey, I was gonna buy an 8701 or 8630 before I got smitten by the LCCA Generals. Good choice. Be sure to add a touch of light oil to the running gear, and a very light application of grease to the gear teeth. The tender axles should be clear of any dirt or fiber debris. Depending on how long it's been on the shelf, you may need to "wake" it up performance wise. Once you get it cranked up and running like a top, see how slow you can get it to run. I love watching the side-rods work on these little gems.
Slightly OT...I received a Marx William Crooks locomotive with a smashed cab and here it is nearly completed with some new clothes. A great runner So to add to Lionel and MTH, heres a blast from the past...
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
Looks like a great job with the cab repair!
Bob Keller
Thanks Bob..It was a plastistruct redo.
wallyworld Slightly OT...I received a Marx William Crooks locomotive with a smashed cab and here it is nearly completed with some new clothes. A great runner So to add to Lionel and MTH, heres a blast from the past...
Oh, you repainted yours too! Kind of like mine, except referencing the cover of the Edwin P. Alexander book "The Collectors Book Of The Locomotive" (Bramhall House 1956) I gave mine a green boiler with gold bands and did the tender in blue. The cover picture is of a 1/2 inch scale model of an 1857 locomotive "The Phantom" on display at that time in the Smithsonian's Railroad Hall.
Can't post a picture, I don't have a digital camera or a Photobucket or Shutterfly account.
I'm sure some Marx collectors are screaming over this, but hey it's MY engine! It ain't goin' anywhere, and besides the old markings were totally worn off anyway.
Nice job you did!
Thanks to 8N and Fife getting me going on this I scored this set,,,,if it is a set???? I would like to know if this was a set with a set number or are all of the pieces bought separate?
I just got this same thing tonight, but not this one. I did better much better. NIB for $150 if that is the truth?.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-6-8701-THE-GENERAL-PASSENGER-SET-WITH-W-A-R-R-LOCO-LN-IN-BOXES-/271777564184?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f47348618
KRM - Somewhere in the Trainz's website, there is an article about the Lionel Generals. It gives a brief history of the various versions of the generals and the sets they were associated with.
I started looking on the Trainz web site, but could not find the article. On a seperate web search on something like 'Lionel general #3', the Trainz article popped up. Even when I was in the Trainz site, I could not figure out exactly where I was..
Good luck.
Yep Kev, it's a set. It's basically a reissue of the 1872 set by MPC. But this time, with correct colors for the original "General". Very good price, btw.
fifedog Yep Kev, it's a set. It's basically a reissue of the 1872 set by MPC. But this time, with correct colors for the original "General". Very good price, btw.
Thanks guys, Do you know what the set number was for this MPC set?
6-8701. The only add-on would be a brown W&ARR 7312 livestock car, which was actually included with the 8630 set.
Thanks Fife!
My General arrived today. A quick test run out of the box tells me that it is in pretty good shape - the two position e-unit works, the smoker smokes, and the head light lights. The next step is to do a cleaning and lube job on it.
As I was running it, the hot rodder in me kicked in. Will a 3 position e-unit fit? Can I add some modern General wheels with traction tires? Would post war magnetraction parts fit? Shield the headlight so the whole headlight box does not glow?
KRM has already provided a partial answer for the wheel replacement. On another thread he points out that modern traction tire wheels are only available in a chassis assembly from Lionel parts.
Has anybody tried machining traction tire groves into wheels? Should be possible with a good fixture to hold the wheel and maybe a custom cutting tool.
8N how does it pull?? And yes the answers to those questions will be nice to know. Mine should be here on Monday.
BTW, Guys, I am glad to be here, Even wit the software issues. “And there are plenty of them” . I have been on other forums that are "self moderated" (not good) and there is no real train chat on them and no meat on the hobby. I did not always think that way but I am still able to learn. Glad we can discuss the hobby here without moderated perspective intervention. We all have the same hobby and we can all help each other in it. The things I learn here help me a lot in working on the layout. That is what it is all about to me!
My test track was a small loop of 027 track - basically a circle with two 1/2 striagnts to make it kind of an oval.
With three P.E. heavyweights in tow, there seemed to be a little wheel slip. No problem getting them moving, though. I think the wheel slip was due to most of the train being in an 027 turn.
My research indicates that a 3 position e-unit will bolt right in place of the 2 position unit that is there. Looks like the correct e-unit will be the 100-12 that was used in the 1872 General only. The lever is up over the wire side of the e-unit and has an offset to match the slot in the shell.
I've got a spare e-unit in my parts box that came out of a 200 series Alco. I think I can turn the coil to get the lever in the right place and replace the lever with a longer one to allow the bends to line up with the shell.
My 8701 set will arive today 8N. I wonder if that motor is wound right for the 3 position e-unit???
KRMI wonder if that motor is wound right for the 3 position e-unit???
It is, but you will only use one of the two field windings.
That is good to know Rob. Thanks.
Sounds like a 3 position e-unit would be a nice up-grade.
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