I have an mth Lincoln general with proto sound 3. It is a great smoker. I'm using the remote commander, but find it doesn't always respond to the controls. Have you experienced any problems with the remote?
thanks
8ntruck The cast metal pilot that I ordered got here just before I left on a week long trip, so I have not had any time to do anything other than look it over. It appears to be a casting that used the original plastic pilot as a pattern. It definitely will add weight to the front of the locomotive. However, installing it requires that the front truck stud be drilled out. Fortunately, new ones are available from Ther Train Tender. I'm also thinking of also installing a 1872-77 weight over the front drivers, if I can find one. My Greenburgs repair manual says that the smoke stack on a non-smoking General must be replaced with a stack from a smoking General when adding a smoke unit. Seems that the stacks on the smoking Generals are made from a more heat resistant plastic than the stacks on the non-smoking Generals.
The cast metal pilot that I ordered got here just before I left on a week long trip, so I have not had any time to do anything other than look it over. It appears to be a casting that used the original plastic pilot as a pattern. It definitely will add weight to the front of the locomotive. However, installing it requires that the front truck stud be drilled out. Fortunately, new ones are available from Ther Train Tender. I'm also thinking of also installing a 1872-77 weight over the front drivers, if I can find one.
My Greenburgs repair manual says that the smoke stack on a non-smoking General must be replaced with a stack from a smoking General when adding a smoke unit. Seems that the stacks on the smoking Generals are made from a more heat resistant plastic than the stacks on the non-smoking Generals.
Thanks 8N. If you find that weight let me know where you did. Also good to know about the stack.
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
I have found a source for the 1862 General ballast weight.
Does not sound like an option for a General with smoke.
Lionel 1862-64 General Ballast Weight - The 1862-64 ballast weight is used on the 1862 version of the General. It is placed in the front of the boiler where the smoke plunger would be in the 1872 and 1882 versions of the general. There are no mounting screws used. This ballast weight cannot be used in either the 1872 or 1882 as those versions require PN 1872-77.
http://store.justtrains.com/1862-64-General-Ballast-Weight_p_1235.html
Kevin, I agree. Thanks Bob.
Well if I were to add weight to our General, I would determine the locomotive's center or gravity, and try to keep equal the amount on both sides. Just wondering how much can the motor take....?
Weight added anywhere forward of the drivers will increase the downward force on the front drivers. It will also decrease the downward force on the rear drivers, but by a lesser amount. For example, an added force of 1 ounce at the smokestack (3 inches ahead of the front drivers) increases the force on the front drivers by 2.5 ounces; and it reduces the force on the rear drivers (2 inches behind the front drivers) by 1.5 ounces.
Bob Nelson
Fife, 8N, Check out this picture and you will see what I am talking about. Installing this weight should not be a problem in the # 3 MPC General with the Pulmor motor but I don't know if it will fit in a modern one.
Looks like the 1862-64 has more weight because it does not have to clear the magnet on the axle.
What do ya think??
fifedog I would be more inclined to trying to add weight over the front set of drivers, since they are most likely to "walk" over the rail.
I would be more inclined to trying to add weight over the front set of drivers, since they are most likely to "walk" over the rail.
The post war ones that had a ballast weight inside behind the smoke unit 1862-64 or 1872-77 Is above the front driver wheels. I don't see them listed in Olsen's Library but they are shown in my Repair and Operating Manual. Wonder if that could be made to fit into a modern set up for the extra needed weight??
Today the # 3 MPC General slowed on the track. So I pulled it apart, did a lub and clean and found it a much nicer job than on the new ones. Also looking at it one would think you could install the post-war smoke unit parts into it and have a smoker. Do any of you know if you can? Also I see in the post war ones they had a ballast weight inside behind the smoke unit 1862-64 or 1872-77 Fife, Wonder if that could be made to fit into a modern set up for the extra needed weight??
I located the metal pilot for the General on e-bay. The price was about $11, so I pulled the trigger and bought one. Easier and less time consuming than building a pattern and casting a lead weight.
I'll find out in about a week.
The e bay item is a buy it now type listing. 3 more are available.
Yesterday when running at a normal speed it derailed again and this time as 8N notes. It is the outside front driver that climbed over the points and in turn that pulls the front truck off as it enters the 42R curve.
I also think the the fact the motor on the new ones is mounted far back and high in the engine does not help.
Back at it.
Let us know what you find out 8N.
Weight in the front was the solution I came up with to try while I was running it today. My thought was to cast a piece of lead to fit under the cow catcher.
At slow speed, the pilot on mine usually follows the turnout. It is the outside front driver that climbs over the points.
I thought about how the drivetrain is set up in my 70's vintage General. The motor is a vertical shaft Alco 200 series type of motor driving the rear with a worm gear located behind the axle. Under load, this set up will tend to pick the front of the locomotive up, taking weight off of the pilot. A stronger spring behind the pilot will actually help lift the fromt of the locomotive.
There has been talk in the coffee pot of a cast metal pilot or cowcatcher being offered on e-bay lately. I wonder if somebody developed it for the switch problem that we are talking about?
Anyhow, I am going to start by stacking some weights under the headlight and run some tests.
I was creeping the General through the turnout and one of the show attendees mentioned that they have the same problem with their Linclon Log General. Looks like this is an issue shared by most of the Generals.
Looks like you're on your way to taming that "pony".
Also looks like we've begun the very first General SIG (Special Interest Group).
Progress update:
Okay here is what I have found out so far. The single weight I first applied behind the swivel pin helped the issue a lot. I could cross over the right hand O-42R turnout into a 42R curve with much greater speed than ever before. That is the place where it would always drive the truck off the turnout. As I increased the speed I got to almost full speed before it again let the front wheels come off the track. So I cut another piece of lead and placed it below the front wheels. See picture. I can now run through the turnouts at full speed without derailment. I will run it some more and if it seems to be a quality fix I will then glue the weights to the truck with two part metal epoxy.
Note: I made the front piece a bit taller to get the most weight I could. Of course this weight will not do anything to add traction to the loco because it is all on the front truck wheels only and not pulling down on the body of the Loco but it does fix the problem of the front truck running off traveling over the turnout.
8N and Fife, Hre is what I am going to do to try to help keep the front truck wheels on the track at the turnouts.I have cut a piece of lead to fit into the recess under the truck and have used hot glue to hold it till I see how it works. That way I can remove it without issue.Will let you know what I think after I get some run time on it.
Here is the space.
Here is the lead
Here is it in place.
8N, I have seen the same with all three I am running on the 042 turnouts I use with 027 track. They work most of the time but go in to fast and the front truck jumps off. I was thinking on adding some flat stick-on wheel weight or lead to the bottom of the truck inside the recess on the bottom. It already has a spring but like Fife said maybe add washers under the spring to push it down harder??
I don't have issue pulling seven cars on the flat track.
I need to do some intensive testing of turnouts myself for the next layout. There is totally too much "play" in the General's pony truck. Perhaps a combo of shims, washers, and springs would make it run smoother.
I have a layout set up for a two day show. I ran my General a lot today. Seems happiest pulling 4 or 5 cars. Anything more gets into wheel excessive wheel slip.
The other bad habit is the trouble it has getting through my 60" Fastrak turnouts. No problem going through with the points set to go straight, but with the points set for the curve, it will de-rail at anything higher than a crawl. Even going through at a crawl does not insure it will make it. It looks like the lead driver on the outside of the curve climbs up the frog.
Anybody else have that sort of problem?
If the pilot on the General actually helped pull the front of the loco around the curve,preventing the driver from climbing the frog.
Fife - I assumed that the water tank is in the tender. It seems that whoever did the original design on the tender 50 plus years ago probably didn't worry about the water tank. We've got to remember that these things were originally toys for kids (of all ages!).
I passed through St. Louis when returning from a business trip this week. I took that opportunity to stop at one of the Lionel dealers there and pick up some wood smoke 'flavored' smoke fluid for my General. The hot chocolate flavored fluid I have been using just is not right.
I spotted a nice Shay on display at this Lionel dealer. At just under $1,300, it was a very, very nice Shay. Unfortunately, out of my price point, though.
All for now.
tinplatacis,
The Best General Type??? A lot of good examples have been shown and discussed in this thread, But in the end you will need to look at the options your looking for and your finance. Then make a choice that will work for you.Enjoy and let us know what you end up with.
So, what's the best general type from lionel in terms of the cost and appearance that is not the 1872? that one's my favorite, but have not the funds to aquire a good example.
8ntruck - That is a good question, bud. Think of the tender as the steam locomotives "lunch box", that it totes with it to work. The water and fuel (wood,oil,coal,natural gas) is carried in the tender, and "fed" into the engine.
Now, that gets us to where to fill water in our Lionel Generals. Usually, the fill hatch is located at the rear, top decking of the tender. Our favorite engine has its covered with logs, so our O-gauge firemen have to clear it away before "toppin' off the tank."
There are some really good pictures on the Kloke Locomotive Works website, showing all the love and artistry that goes into fabricating a real 4-4-0.
Hope this helped.
Speaking of tenders, I just came up with a questioin. I recently got an 'operating' water tower. I went to pull my General up for a 're-fill', then stopped cold - Where does the water go in one of these? The whole top of the tender is covered in wood, and there does not seem to be an obvious tank on the locomotive.
fifedog Ya'know...? That is a pretty large chasm between the loco and tender, and the more I look at it, the more I don't like that...
Ya'know...? That is a pretty large chasm between the loco and tender, and the more I look at it, the more I don't like that...
Same here Fife!! Click on it to see it the way they are.
I sold the tender and use one from the MPC days that fits.
Thanks for sharing Fife, It is a sharp looking set. The tender looks too far from the loco like the PE sets. but the sounds are nice. I agree. I see Charles Ro has it listed at $110.00 off list price.
I showed it to wife but she told me I have enough Generals for now.
Saw a Legacy Station video on YouTube this weekend, on the Western Union General. Handsome as all get-out, and the chatter is the best that Lionel has produced thus far.
Check it out.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=western%20union%20general&qs=n&form=QBVR&pq=western%20union%20general&sc=1-21&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&mid=3767B8E9884651F93DAF3767B8E9884651F93DAF
It seems the server links to the pictures are broken.
Good article otherwise.
Larry
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