An earlier post mentioned that the 6113 Illinois Central 2-bay hopper car had three noted variations:
Non-Operating Body,
Operating Body with Glued Hatches,
Operating (non-glued hatches),
with the last variation being somewhat suspect since it was an easy owner made modification. A couple of months ago I was fortunate enough to acquire the second variation (at last!) for under $30. Note the metal step at the corners.
It also has a separately applied brake wheel.
The bottom has the molded in features for the operating mechanism.
While the graphics are almost the same, some of the letters are a little smaller in the variation, the bodies are different. Note the differences at the end of the cars.
The inside of the cars are also quite different.
It is certainly a mystery what MPC would use similar graphics and the same car number on what is unquestionable different car bodies. Running out of the standard 2-bay hopper body isn’t an explanation since the graphics are not exactly the same. I guess it can just be chocked up to the wacky world of MPC production control.
Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………
Papa D
The 25000 Lehigh Valley 2-bay hopper was not listed in Michael Connor’s article on 2-bay hopper cheap classics in the January 1995 edition of CTT because it was an un-cataloged item. Released in ’70, it’s an example of MPC getting rid of leftover stock inherited from the original Lionel Corporation. Other than some the 9010 and 9011 2-bay hoppers that also used leftover stock, the separately applied brake wheel would not appear again on 2-bay hoppers until after the MPC/LTI era. If you look closely at the photo, you can just see the top of the brake wheel on the right hand side.
Completing the list of cheap classic 2-bay hoppers is the 16414 NYC-CCC& StL 2-bay hopper cataloged in ’94 as a separate sale item. Another well made, nice looking car that has all the improvements implemented by LTI.
While the LTI cars are superior to run, they are not nearly as much fun to collect. Gone are the MPC era variations and factory mistakes. Working for MPC must have been quite hectic.
Just a couple of loose ends to tie up before moving on to short gondolas.
Nearing the end of the 2-bay hopper list. Second to the last is the 16410 Missouri-Kansas & Texas 2-bay hopper cataloged in ’92 and un-cataloged in ’93; appearing in the 11728 High Plains Runner and 11800 Toy R Us Heavy Iron sets, respectively. Another well made, nice looking car that is maybe a little bit harder to find since it was never a separate sale item.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
It’s been a long busy summer, but with the weather turning cooler it’s time for trains again.
The 16400 Penn RR 2-bay hopper was produced in ’88 (U) and ’89 appearing in the 11708 Midnight Shift Set as well as Rolling Stock Assortments. It’s a little harder to find and also commands a little higher price in the neighborhood of $20 or so. Another nice car with all the improvements implemented by LTI.
The 6177 Reading 2-bay hopper was produced from ’86 to ’90 and again in ’93, appearing in 4 different sets as well as Rolling Stock Assortments. A nice car with pressed iron powder wheels and trucks attached to the car body with metal rivets. It’s another easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price of around $10.
It’s a twin to the 9015 Reading produced from ’73 to ’75 presented in an earlier post. Other than the road number, there’s only a slight difference in the molded body color that keeps them from being identical twins.
I would love to have several AT&SF hoppers!!!!!
The 6150 Santa Fe 2-bay hopper was produced in ’85 and ’86 as part of the 1501 Midland Freight set and Rolling Stock Assortments. The deep blue body with yellow graphics results in a nice looking car. It’s an easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price of around $10.
The ’85 catalog graphics for the Midland Freight set was a throwback to the 50’s.
A good looking set with plenty of play value; it’s somewhat surprising it was a catalog item for only 2 years.
The 6137 Nickel Plate Road 2-bay hopper was produced from ’86 to ’91 appearing in the 1602 & 1606 Nickel Plate Special set and in the ‘88 Rolling Stock Assortments. Another average looking piece of rolling stock without too much of a story to tell; there are no reported variations. It’s an easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price of around $10.
One nice thing about it is the trucks are held on by metal hollow rivets vs plastic rivets. The plastic rivet is a great “Design for Assembly” idea which makes installation of the trucks quicker with less skilled labor. Unfortunately there is little customer “delight” with the excessive wobble between the trucks and car body. MPC had any number of penny wise and pound foolish ideas. Fortunately, the transition to the LTI era eventually eliminated most of them.
Another nice thing is the wheels are pressed powdered iron vs brass or plastic used on some earlier MPC 2-bay hoppers. This gives the car a much lower center of gravity significantly improving its track holding performance.
From left to right: pressed powdered iron, brass, and plastic wheels.
Another oddity about the 1762 Wabash set is the box. The top 2/3 of the inner liner is styrofoam, and the bottom third is cardboard. Throw in that over and under figure 8 and it is the strangest set Lionel produced in the '70s. All I can figure is they were testing the market to see if there was demand for an upgraded 2-4-2 set. Since this format wasn't repeated I assume the answer was 'no'.
Apparently Lionel used sets to clear overstocked freight cars in 1977. The 1764 Heartland Express has the same random car issue too. I recently saw a sealed example on eBay with a 9117 Alaska covered hopper in it.
You know what looks very wrong about the SOUTHERN covered hopper is that the road number is supposed to be under the name and in the exact same font as the letters. That was the standard SOUTHERN name and number placement. The style is completely wrong.
If the lettering was red on the hopper, the hoppers were usually aluminum.
If the Southern hopper was gray, then the lettering was green.
The reason it does not look right is because they did not stick with the SOUTHERN Railway color scheme and lettering styles 30 years ago. I know is was an inexpensive hopper, but they got it right with the other railroads, why slam the SOUTHERN?
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
Below is a scan of the 1280 Kickapoo Valley & Northern set from the ‘72 catalog that shows the 9330 dump car. It was also included in the ’79 1965 Smokey Mountain Line set. As stated in Boyd's post above the 9330 can be found in green, yellow and red. Unfortunately there is no lettering which makes it harder to find on sites such as eBay. The references I looked at don't show the 9330 having been sold in any un-cataloged sets or as a separate sale item.
The bobber caboose might be more fun to collect. There are a total of 12 plus some variations. They also have lettering which makes them easier to find.
The 6115 Southern Ry 2-bay hopper was produced from ’83 to ’86 appearing in the 1353 Southern Streak set and as in Rolling Stock Assortments. Overall a somewhat average looking piece of rolling stock without too much of a story to tell; there are no reported variations.
Considering its 4 year production run and being included in RSAs, it is not that easy to find, making me doubt that it was included in too many RSAs. Further proof of this is I haven’t seen one being sold with a box. Fortunately this rarity is not reflected in the price which is generally less than $10.
The 1353 Southern Streak was a descent looking entry level set, except for the steam engine being DC only. It contained a wealth of “cheap classics”; the 7902 Santa Fe small boxcar, and the very hard to find 6207 Southern short gondola & 6486 Southern caboose, in addition to the 6115 Southern 2-bay hopper.
Yes it is a 9731 boxcar and 9855 reefer. I got the set for about $25 a couple of years ago.
Thanks for the info!
Assuming you Milwaukee Road boxcar is the 9731 and the Swift Preium reefer is the 9855, then it is certainly possible they came in the 1762 Wabash Cannonball set. Both were produced in the right timeframe (74-75 & 73-77, respectively), and come from the same series (9700 & 9800, respectively). So my guess is they came in the set.
I have one of those Grand Trunk hoppers, and it came with possibly that same set. The Wabash engine and caboose and the Santa Fe gondola was with it, but also a Milwaukee Road boxcar and a Swift Premium reefer. I wonder if the set came with that reefer and boxcar or if they were switched out by someone later.
I had picked up a few other 2-bay hoppers for cheap at a show and repainted them, but seeing this post about the GT hopper being a little harder to find I won't repaint it.
Thanks!
that NYC is really nice, will keep my eyes open for it, I have that Reading one that you featured a while back, indeed it's very nice
The 6113 Illinois Central 2-bay hopper car was produced from ’83 to ‘85 and sold as part of Rolling Stock Assortments and 1052 Chesapeake Flyer set. Nice graphics makes this somewhat good looking.
There are three noted variations:
Non-Operating Body (shown above)
Operating Body with Glued Hatches
Operating (non-glued hatches)
It is unclear if this last one is a factory variation or owner modifications. I have seen the second variation up for individual sale on eBay a couple of times, but the selling price was always more than I wanted to pay, somewhere north of $50. I’ve also seen both the first and second variations on eBay being sold as part of the high end 1052 Chesapeake Flyer sets with asking prices around $250.
While I don’t have the 6113 operating body with glued hatches variation, I do have the much more common (and cheaper) NYC 9240 2-Bay hopper car with this variation. Another distinguishing feature of this variation is the separately applied brake wheel.
This car came with a box with labeling that indicates it is a ordinary run-of-the-mill 2-bay hopper.
Finally note the underside features for installing the operating mechanism for the hatches. This is what casts uncertainty on the third variation being a factory or owner modification, it's too easy to make the conversion.
There have been numerous stories in CCT featuring the recollections of former Lionel employees during the postwar era. It would be nice to read similar articles about the recollections of MPC era employees. There certainly are enough idiosyncrasies in MPC production whose explanation should make for interesting reading. I’d guess these folks would be in their mid 60’s to 70’s now.
The 9079 Grand Trunk Western 2-bay hopper car was produced in ’77 and sold only as part of the 1762 Wabash Cannonball mid-level set.
The 1762 Wabash Cannonball set in it self was also somewhat of an oddity. It was lead by a 8703 Wabash 2-4-2 steam engine (with a plastic shell), and in addition to the 9079 GTW 2-bay hopper, it included the 9284 Santa Fe long gondola with canisters, either the 9737 Central Vermont or 9771 Norfolk & Western boxcar, either the 9851 Schlitz or 9853 Cracker Jack reefer, and 9080 Wabash SP style caboose. The engine, 2-bay hopper, long gondola and caboose were only produced in ’77 and only included in the 1762 Wabash set. The Central Vermont, Schlitz and Cracker Jack cars are not listed in any price guide as being produced in ’77. Why did MPC cobble together this set with left-over stock and new production unique to this set?
The 1762 was such a mismatched set, the cars unique to it are frequently found now for sale separately. Of the four unique cars, the 9079 seems to be the hardest to come across. It is certainly more difficult to find than any of the previous 2-bay hopper cars in this series, but not overly so.
Papa D,
Excellent layout and photography. Keep sharing with the rest of us. I enjoy your posts.
George
Excellent reading
The 9038 B&O 2-bay hopper is the good looking brother to the 9016 previously posted. The blue body with the yellow graphics are a much more appealing combination that the 9016 yellow & black. It was first an un-cataloged rolling stock assortment item in ’78, and in ’80 part of the cataloged 1052 Chesapeake Flyer set. There were sufficient RSA sales to make finding it with a box common. With or without a box it sells in the "cheap classic" price range of $15 or less.
The 1052 Chesapeake Flyer set was the mother-lode of “cheap classics”. In addition to the 9038 2 bay hopper, it included the 9037 Conrail brown boxcar, 9036 white Mobilgas single dome tank car, 9017 red Wabash small gondola with 2 silver canisters and 9381 Chessie Systems SP style caboose. These cars were headed by the 8008 4-4-2 steam engine (DC only) and 9017 Chessie Systems tender (ugly IMHO). Neither is my cup-of-tea, I use a RMT CSX S-4 instead to pull these cars on my layout.
I was up to 71 of the red 9013s until I sold 28 to one guy last fall. The variation in color that I saw in them was so slight that I would guess it to be from variations in the manufacturing process. Nice and light, most MPC engines could easily pull 20 to 30 of them. I highly suggest replacing the plastic pins that hold the trucks to the body with #8 bolts and nyloc nuts. Adjust the nut a so that the truck can wobble a little but so it doesn't derail over uneven track. There is no other car cheaper and easier to find in large quantity if you are persistent and patient. I have photos but I don't know how to post them here.
The 9018 DT&I followed the 9016 B&O 2 bay hopper, slightly overlapping the latter’s initial production run, being produced from ’78 to ’82. It has the same light yellow body with somewhat improved graphics over the 9016. It was included in 6 cataloged sets plus as a separate sale item. There are no noted variations. It is not too difficult to find at a cheap classic price.
The 9018 DT&I 2 bay hopper would have been far more appealing (IMHO) if MPC had selected either the green used for the 9750 DT&I boxcar or orange used for the DT&I NW-2 Switcher.
MPC certainly didn’t following any convention in assigning numbers to rolling stock. Between the 9016 & 9018 2 bay hoppers is the 9017 Wabash short gondola produced in from ’78 to ’83. The 9017 & 9018 were a matched pair in the 9017 Chesapeake Flyer set produced in ’78 & ’79 as well as the 1151 UP Thunder Freight set produced in ’81 & ’82. This pair also made an appearance in the un-cataloged JC Penny 1153 UP Thunder Freight set.
There are several factors that effects rarity for "cheap classics". Dominant is the number of years over which the car was produced. Secondary factors are the number of different catalogued and un-catalogued sets the car appeared in and whether it was in a "rolling stock assortment" or a separate sale item. In the case of the 9079 Grand Trunk Western (coming up soon), it had a single production year appearing in only one set. However it was also a separate sale item which makes it a little easier to find. Having said all this, the 9079 GT is indeed one of the more difficult 2 bay hoppers to find. Price guides show a rarity of 4 out of 5 with a price of $50. My experience is the price for this type of car on eBay is generally much less.
Have fun collecting "cheap classics"
Boyd on this forum has 50 + red CN 9013. Perhaps he could discuss color variations
The 9016 Cheesie Systems B&O 2 bay hopper had a checkered production history. It was produced initially from ’75 to ’79 appearing in 5 cataloged and 1 un-cataloged sets as well as included in Rolling Stock Assortments. It appeared again in two separate un-cataloged sets in ’82 and ’83. Finally LIT brought it back in ’87 and ’88 as a separate sale item. With all this production, the 9016 is a relatively easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price. Use of blue instead of black for the graphics would have helped its appearance. Overall it’s a very plain looking car, perhaps the second least appealing in the cheap classic 2 bay hopper series.
The only noted variation is in body color. Both light and medium yellow bodies can be found. I’m not sure if this variation can be tied to the LTI production or not but based on its trucks, my 9016 medium yellow appears to have been built by LTI based on the wheels.
While the trucks are generally not considered a variation because of the ease with which then can be swapped, you’re wise to shop for one with the much higher quality LTI trucks which is on the top in the below photo. Best of all there is no difference in price.
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