The third article in Michael Connor’s four part series on “cheap classics” covering 2-bay hoppers and gondolas appeared in the January 1995 edition of CCT which by-the-way was a whopping 178 pages. The beauty of these articles is Michael identified sub-categories of rolling stork that contained a limited number of members making collecting possible on a budget. He had two simple criteria: only the Model Product Corporation (MPC ’70 to ’85) and Lionel Trains Incorporated (LTI ’86 to ’95) eras; and only cataloged rolling stock. Because collectors often ignore these two eras, much of the rolling stock can be bought at a very reasonable price, hence the “cheap classic” tag line. The first two “cheap classic” articles covered single dome tank cars and short box cars. For those who might be interested I have two earlier posts covering these: Cheap Classics- 8” Tank Cars & Cheap Classics- 8” Box Cars. In this post I will focus on the 2-bay hoppers listed in the third article. Finally, a big thank you to Michael Connor for having written these articles. It has provided my hours and hours of fun and learning collecting these items. With that, let’s get started.
There are 17 2-bay hoppers on the list. The journey begins with the 9010 Great Northern produced in ’70 & ’71. It was included in 4 sets as well as a separate sale item making it relatively easy to find.
9010 variations reflect the transition that was taking place at the start of the MPC era. The body was a carry-over from the post-war era with a separate brakewheel. Body color ranged from light to medium blue.
Left over trucks were also being used up, so the 9010 can be found with either post-war era AAR trucks (on the left) or Symington-Wayne trucks (on the right) introduced by MPC.
The AAR trucks have a metal bar on the operating coupler. This bar is frequently missing and replacements are hard to find.
Most cars were marked with a “1-70” build date. Some medium blue with AAR trucks are reportedly marked with “7-70”. This is a variation I’ve yet to come across. I have seen however any number of the 9010 close cousin, the 9011 Great Northern which is marked “7-70” listed on eBay as a 9010. Is this variation a case of mistaken identity?
Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………
Papa D
Dennis, relative to your comment, I’ve found that buying at train shows vs eBay may or may not be cheaper. I try to attend the twice a year Greenburg train shows in my area as well as the once a year Amherst Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show held on the weekend before the Super Bowl at the Big-E in West Springfield, MA. At the last Greenburg train show this fall I bought a nice Lionel 8111 DT&I NW2 Diesel Switcher for $50, which given the condition is probably cheaper than what I could have bought it for on eBay. I do find that some dealers charge a premium price because you get to see what you buying before buying it.
There is no denying that eBay for better or worst has changed collecting of anything and everything from antiques to trains. It’s redefine “rarity” and in general lead to a decline in prices. It’s taken me about a year to collect all the 2-bay hoppers on the “cheap classic” list. If I bought at train shows exclusively it probably would have taken 5 years or more. There are still two 2-bay hopper variations that I’ve bid on but not won because of a self imposed “cheap classic” price limit. I’m pretty sure I’ll see other examples of these variations on eBay and perhaps be lucky enough to have a “cheap classic” winning bid.
Next on the list is the 9010’s cousin, the 9011 Great Northern. Produced from ’70 to ’71 and again from ’75 to ’83, it appeared in 7 sets as well as included in the Rolling Stock Assortment from ’79 to ’83 making this the second easiest and cheapest one to find after the 9013 Canadian National.
The 9011 is also the champ when it comes to variations with a total of 5: 1) Light blue with separate brake wheel, AAR trucks and MPC logo; 2) Light blue with molded brake wheel and Symington-Wayne trucks and MPC logo; the same as 2 except without MPC logo; 4) Royal Blue; and 5) dark blue which is very rare.
This shows a comparison between the separate brake wheel and the molded brake wheel. The designers at MPC certainly knew how to squeeze every penny out of a design. Unfortunately “customer delight” with the product/design change didn’t seem to one of their considerations. Interesting to note in recent times the 2-bay hoppers again have a separate brake wheel.
Comparison between light and royal blue is shown in this next photo. Note also the MPC logo is missing from the light blue car on the left.
I don’t have nor have I ever come across an example of the dark blue variation. I would speculate that someone inadvertently heat stamped a few 9012 TA&G dark blue2-bay hopper bodies with the GN set-up.
Good evening all,
Papa D, i enjoy your updates on "Cheap Classics". I had not seen a royal blue 9011 until you posted so I really appreciate your take on the stories. Some of the early MPC does have some fascinating history.
Keep on training,
Mike C. from Indiana
Thanks Mike C.
The 9012 TA&G 2-bay hopper was produced in ’71 & ’72. It appeared in 4 sets and as a separate sale item. If it comes with a box then it was a separate sale item. It is fairly easy to find which also corresponds to a low price, generally under $10. Overall, it’s a nice looking car with above average graphics.
The only variation is body color. In addition to the common dark blue body (which is probably the body used for the very rare 9011 GN dark blue variation) there is a royal blue body which is the same color as the 9011 GN royal blue variation. While not common, it is not that difficult to find with a moderate premium price in the range of $20 to $40.
All 9012’s came with Symington-Wayne trucks and MPC logo, an interesting contrast to the 9010 & 9011 GN’s. It’s easy to understand how the 9010 & 9011 GN’s AAR/S-W truck variation might be restricted to cars built in ’70 as the left over postwar stock was used up. One could speculate the “with” & “without” MPC logo variation is restricted to the ’70 product year and by ‘71 MPC more or less had their act together.
The 9013 Canadian National (CN) was produced from ’72 to ’76. It was included in a whooping 13 different sets plus sold separately. As one might guess, it is the easiest of the 2-bay hoppers to find at a “cheap classic” price. There is only a slight premium for mint ones still in the box.
The only variation is body color, which can be found in light, medium and dark red. This body color variation is too subtle to make collecting worth the effort. For example, photo color quality on eBay has at least as much variation. If anyone has enough 9013 CN’s to show this variation please post photos.
The 9015 Reading 2-bay hopper was produced from ’73 to ’75. It appeared in only 1 set and as a separate sale item. It marked a turning point in the MPC era. Its production run was modest compared to that of the 9010, 9011, 9012 & 9013 making it a little harder to find, but fortunately not too hard. Overall I find it a nice looking car. As is often found on many of the “cheap classics” someone has up-graded the trucks.
The 9016 Cheesie Systems B&O 2 bay hopper had a checkered production history. It was produced initially from ’75 to ’79 appearing in 5 cataloged and 1 un-cataloged sets as well as included in Rolling Stock Assortments. It appeared again in two separate un-cataloged sets in ’82 and ’83. Finally LIT brought it back in ’87 and ’88 as a separate sale item. With all this production, the 9016 is a relatively easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price. Use of blue instead of black for the graphics would have helped its appearance. Overall it’s a very plain looking car, perhaps the second least appealing in the cheap classic 2 bay hopper series.
The only noted variation is in body color. Both light and medium yellow bodies can be found. I’m not sure if this variation can be tied to the LTI production or not but based on its trucks, my 9016 medium yellow appears to have been built by LTI based on the wheels.
While the trucks are generally not considered a variation because of the ease with which then can be swapped, you’re wise to shop for one with the much higher quality LTI trucks which is on the top in the below photo. Best of all there is no difference in price.
Boyd on this forum has 50 + red CN 9013. Perhaps he could discuss color variations
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
There are several factors that effects rarity for "cheap classics". Dominant is the number of years over which the car was produced. Secondary factors are the number of different catalogued and un-catalogued sets the car appeared in and whether it was in a "rolling stock assortment" or a separate sale item. In the case of the 9079 Grand Trunk Western (coming up soon), it had a single production year appearing in only one set. However it was also a separate sale item which makes it a little easier to find. Having said all this, the 9079 GT is indeed one of the more difficult 2 bay hoppers to find. Price guides show a rarity of 4 out of 5 with a price of $50. My experience is the price for this type of car on eBay is generally much less.
Have fun collecting "cheap classics"
The 9018 DT&I followed the 9016 B&O 2 bay hopper, slightly overlapping the latter’s initial production run, being produced from ’78 to ’82. It has the same light yellow body with somewhat improved graphics over the 9016. It was included in 6 cataloged sets plus as a separate sale item. There are no noted variations. It is not too difficult to find at a cheap classic price.
The 9018 DT&I 2 bay hopper would have been far more appealing (IMHO) if MPC had selected either the green used for the 9750 DT&I boxcar or orange used for the DT&I NW-2 Switcher.
MPC certainly didn’t following any convention in assigning numbers to rolling stock. Between the 9016 & 9018 2 bay hoppers is the 9017 Wabash short gondola produced in from ’78 to ’83. The 9017 & 9018 were a matched pair in the 9017 Chesapeake Flyer set produced in ’78 & ’79 as well as the 1151 UP Thunder Freight set produced in ’81 & ’82. This pair also made an appearance in the un-cataloged JC Penny 1153 UP Thunder Freight set.
I was up to 71 of the red 9013s until I sold 28 to one guy last fall. The variation in color that I saw in them was so slight that I would guess it to be from variations in the manufacturing process. Nice and light, most MPC engines could easily pull 20 to 30 of them. I highly suggest replacing the plastic pins that hold the trucks to the body with #8 bolts and nyloc nuts. Adjust the nut a so that the truck can wobble a little but so it doesn't derail over uneven track. There is no other car cheaper and easier to find in large quantity if you are persistent and patient. I have photos but I don't know how to post them here.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
The 9038 B&O 2-bay hopper is the good looking brother to the 9016 previously posted. The blue body with the yellow graphics are a much more appealing combination that the 9016 yellow & black. It was first an un-cataloged rolling stock assortment item in ’78, and in ’80 part of the cataloged 1052 Chesapeake Flyer set. There were sufficient RSA sales to make finding it with a box common. With or without a box it sells in the "cheap classic" price range of $15 or less.
The 1052 Chesapeake Flyer set was the mother-lode of “cheap classics”. In addition to the 9038 2 bay hopper, it included the 9037 Conrail brown boxcar, 9036 white Mobilgas single dome tank car, 9017 red Wabash small gondola with 2 silver canisters and 9381 Chessie Systems SP style caboose. These cars were headed by the 8008 4-4-2 steam engine (DC only) and 9017 Chessie Systems tender (ugly IMHO). Neither is my cup-of-tea, I use a RMT CSX S-4 instead to pull these cars on my layout.
Excellent reading
Papa D,
Excellent layout and photography. Keep sharing with the rest of us. I enjoy your posts.
George
The 9079 Grand Trunk Western 2-bay hopper car was produced in ’77 and sold only as part of the 1762 Wabash Cannonball mid-level set.
The 1762 Wabash Cannonball set in it self was also somewhat of an oddity. It was lead by a 8703 Wabash 2-4-2 steam engine (with a plastic shell), and in addition to the 9079 GTW 2-bay hopper, it included the 9284 Santa Fe long gondola with canisters, either the 9737 Central Vermont or 9771 Norfolk & Western boxcar, either the 9851 Schlitz or 9853 Cracker Jack reefer, and 9080 Wabash SP style caboose. The engine, 2-bay hopper, long gondola and caboose were only produced in ’77 and only included in the 1762 Wabash set. The Central Vermont, Schlitz and Cracker Jack cars are not listed in any price guide as being produced in ’77. Why did MPC cobble together this set with left-over stock and new production unique to this set?
The 1762 was such a mismatched set, the cars unique to it are frequently found now for sale separately. Of the four unique cars, the 9079 seems to be the hardest to come across. It is certainly more difficult to find than any of the previous 2-bay hopper cars in this series, but not overly so.
The 6113 Illinois Central 2-bay hopper car was produced from ’83 to ‘85 and sold as part of Rolling Stock Assortments and 1052 Chesapeake Flyer set. Nice graphics makes this somewhat good looking.
There are three noted variations:
Non-Operating Body (shown above)
Operating Body with Glued Hatches
Operating (non-glued hatches)
It is unclear if this last one is a factory variation or owner modifications. I have seen the second variation up for individual sale on eBay a couple of times, but the selling price was always more than I wanted to pay, somewhere north of $50. I’ve also seen both the first and second variations on eBay being sold as part of the high end 1052 Chesapeake Flyer sets with asking prices around $250.
While I don’t have the 6113 operating body with glued hatches variation, I do have the much more common (and cheaper) NYC 9240 2-Bay hopper car with this variation. Another distinguishing feature of this variation is the separately applied brake wheel.
This car came with a box with labeling that indicates it is a ordinary run-of-the-mill 2-bay hopper.
Finally note the underside features for installing the operating mechanism for the hatches. This is what casts uncertainty on the third variation being a factory or owner modification, it's too easy to make the conversion.
There have been numerous stories in CCT featuring the recollections of former Lionel employees during the postwar era. It would be nice to read similar articles about the recollections of MPC era employees. There certainly are enough idiosyncrasies in MPC production whose explanation should make for interesting reading. I’d guess these folks would be in their mid 60’s to 70’s now.
that NYC is really nice, will keep my eyes open for it, I have that Reading one that you featured a while back, indeed it's very nice
I have one of those Grand Trunk hoppers, and it came with possibly that same set. The Wabash engine and caboose and the Santa Fe gondola was with it, but also a Milwaukee Road boxcar and a Swift Premium reefer. I wonder if the set came with that reefer and boxcar or if they were switched out by someone later.
I had picked up a few other 2-bay hoppers for cheap at a show and repainted them, but seeing this post about the GT hopper being a little harder to find I won't repaint it.
Thanks!
Assuming you Milwaukee Road boxcar is the 9731 and the Swift Preium reefer is the 9855, then it is certainly possible they came in the 1762 Wabash Cannonball set. Both were produced in the right timeframe (74-75 & 73-77, respectively), and come from the same series (9700 & 9800, respectively). So my guess is they came in the set.
Yes it is a 9731 boxcar and 9855 reefer. I got the set for about $25 a couple of years ago.
Thanks for the info!
The 6115 Southern Ry 2-bay hopper was produced from ’83 to ’86 appearing in the 1353 Southern Streak set and as in Rolling Stock Assortments. Overall a somewhat average looking piece of rolling stock without too much of a story to tell; there are no reported variations.
Considering its 4 year production run and being included in RSAs, it is not that easy to find, making me doubt that it was included in too many RSAs. Further proof of this is I haven’t seen one being sold with a box. Fortunately this rarity is not reflected in the price which is generally less than $10.
The 1353 Southern Streak was a descent looking entry level set, except for the steam engine being DC only. It contained a wealth of “cheap classics”; the 7902 Santa Fe small boxcar, and the very hard to find 6207 Southern short gondola & 6486 Southern caboose, in addition to the 6115 Southern 2-bay hopper.
Below is a scan of the 1280 Kickapoo Valley & Northern set from the ‘72 catalog that shows the 9330 dump car. It was also included in the ’79 1965 Smokey Mountain Line set. As stated in Boyd's post above the 9330 can be found in green, yellow and red. Unfortunately there is no lettering which makes it harder to find on sites such as eBay. The references I looked at don't show the 9330 having been sold in any un-cataloged sets or as a separate sale item.
The bobber caboose might be more fun to collect. There are a total of 12 plus some variations. They also have lettering which makes them easier to find.
You know what looks very wrong about the SOUTHERN covered hopper is that the road number is supposed to be under the name and in the exact same font as the letters. That was the standard SOUTHERN name and number placement. The style is completely wrong.
If the lettering was red on the hopper, the hoppers were usually aluminum.
If the Southern hopper was gray, then the lettering was green.
The reason it does not look right is because they did not stick with the SOUTHERN Railway color scheme and lettering styles 30 years ago. I know is was an inexpensive hopper, but they got it right with the other railroads, why slam the SOUTHERN?
Andrew
Another oddity about the 1762 Wabash set is the box. The top 2/3 of the inner liner is styrofoam, and the bottom third is cardboard. Throw in that over and under figure 8 and it is the strangest set Lionel produced in the '70s. All I can figure is they were testing the market to see if there was demand for an upgraded 2-4-2 set. Since this format wasn't repeated I assume the answer was 'no'.
Apparently Lionel used sets to clear overstocked freight cars in 1977. The 1764 Heartland Express has the same random car issue too. I recently saw a sealed example on eBay with a 9117 Alaska covered hopper in it.
The 6137 Nickel Plate Road 2-bay hopper was produced from ’86 to ’91 appearing in the 1602 & 1606 Nickel Plate Special set and in the ‘88 Rolling Stock Assortments. Another average looking piece of rolling stock without too much of a story to tell; there are no reported variations. It’s an easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price of around $10.
One nice thing about it is the trucks are held on by metal hollow rivets vs plastic rivets. The plastic rivet is a great “Design for Assembly” idea which makes installation of the trucks quicker with less skilled labor. Unfortunately there is little customer “delight” with the excessive wobble between the trucks and car body. MPC had any number of penny wise and pound foolish ideas. Fortunately, the transition to the LTI era eventually eliminated most of them.
Another nice thing is the wheels are pressed powdered iron vs brass or plastic used on some earlier MPC 2-bay hoppers. This gives the car a much lower center of gravity significantly improving its track holding performance.
From left to right: pressed powdered iron, brass, and plastic wheels.
The 6150 Santa Fe 2-bay hopper was produced in ’85 and ’86 as part of the 1501 Midland Freight set and Rolling Stock Assortments. The deep blue body with yellow graphics results in a nice looking car. It’s an easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price of around $10.
The ’85 catalog graphics for the Midland Freight set was a throwback to the 50’s.
A good looking set with plenty of play value; it’s somewhat surprising it was a catalog item for only 2 years.
I would love to have several AT&SF hoppers!!!!!
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